07 Civic Si NOT IMPRESSED!
03-10-2007, 02:51 AM
#1
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07 Civic Si NOT IMPRESSED!
So I was out riding my GSX-R today and went past a Honda dealer with a Si out front. So I pull in just to see exactly how much one cost. Of course before I could get off the bike and take off my helmet BAM there's a salesman. He ask if Iwant to take one for a test drive. I'm like sure, and he runs off to get the keys. He's like oh look at this, oh check this out, it has 200 hp blah blah blah 
. So I take it out for a good flogging. Now my tC has an intake and exhaust perfomance wise that's it. Needless to say 1. I wasn't impressed with the Si's acceleration 
. 2. I really wasn't impressed with the 22k dollar price tag. I really drove it hard redline thru 5 gears never got to the 6th. My tC sticker was $16785 now if I took the other 5k and dumped it in the tC aint no way in hell the Si could keep up
. So I take it out for a good flogging. Now my tC has an intake and exhaust perfomance wise that's it. Needless to say 1. I wasn't impressed with the Si's acceleration . 2. I really wasn't impressed with the 22k dollar price tag. I really drove it hard redline thru 5 gears never got to the 6th. My tC sticker was $16785 now if I took the other 5k and dumped it in the tC aint no way in hell the Si could keep up
03-10-2007, 03:32 AM
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My friend has the 07 Sedan SI....Its cool...to Bad he cant Shift that great!....It does have some Power though...
Then again I do Not like the Exterior or Interior of the Civic..
They really screwed up the Design of the Civic after 2000.
Then again I do Not like the Exterior or Interior of the Civic..
They really screwed up the Design of the Civic after 2000.
03-10-2007, 04:16 AM
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Yea the Engine is tight!!....I dont know why Honda didnt use the Euro front end on the U.S. version..It makes it look Way better!!.....The dash is Kinda Blahhh...Dont like the 1 GiNormous dial then a digital readout on top...
The front looks like it got cut-off!...I hate that...
DAMN Honda designers!!!
The front looks like it got cut-off!...I hate that...
DAMN Honda designers!!!
03-10-2007, 04:19 AM
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as much as i hate the design of hte honda..
i hate the design of the tC even more. honestly, what the hell were they thinking when they were planning out the engine bay? or even the engine? its horrible.. why wouldnt they do some extra research for a 6spd, or better yet, better ratios for the current gear box.
i hate the design of the tC even more. honestly, what the hell were they thinking when they were planning out the engine bay? or even the engine? its horrible.. why wouldnt they do some extra research for a 6spd, or better yet, better ratios for the current gear box.
03-10-2007, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by blackonblacktc
was the car burped yet?
if not, then it wasnt performing to its full potential, trust me, those things are quick.
if not, then it wasnt performing to its full potential, trust me, those things are quick.
03-10-2007, 04:59 AM
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I thing I do notice about 4 cylinder VTEC Honda's is that you dont really feel the "push". The tC does have a big 4 cylinder motor to help it along and fairly agressive ratios.
I have 2 cars in mind: RSX-S and WRX. Both perform about the same #'s stock (aside from 0-60) and price isnt too different. But the WRX always feels faster although the RSX-S wouldnt be too far behind.
I have 2 cars in mind: RSX-S and WRX. Both perform about the same #'s stock (aside from 0-60) and price isnt too different. But the WRX always feels faster although the RSX-S wouldnt be too far behind.
03-10-2007, 05:04 AM
#10
My buddy at work just bought one, I actually really like it. Alot of the people hate the interior but I really like it
He let me drive it, but I didnt get on it since it only has 150 miles on it. Once he breaks his engine in, im going to run him. If I get a good launch, I dont think he will beat me by very much at all.
O ya he didnt pay 22k for it, he paid 25k!!!!!!!
HE said every dealer over here has at least a 3K mark-up
He let me drive it, but I didnt get on it since it only has 150 miles on it. Once he breaks his engine in, im going to run him. If I get a good launch, I dont think he will beat me by very much at all.
O ya he didnt pay 22k for it, he paid 25k!!!!!!!
HE said every dealer over here has at least a 3K mark-up
03-10-2007, 05:44 AM
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Well I'm with ya bro, I went was racing one a couple nights ago up here, and it was from a 20 mph roll in 2nd gear. He started pulling ahead when I shifted into 5th (was going about 105 at that point). He was only a half car length ahead of me before I switched to 5th. I'm not impressed at all.
03-11-2007, 01:14 AM
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Si's have no torque, u need to rev the cr@p out of them to get the power. TC has a bigger 4 banger so it produces alot more torque much farther down in the powerband so that u can actually use the power everyday. Don't get me wrong the Si is a fun lil car n all but the TC is much better for everyday driving then the Si will be.
03-15-2007, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DriverXa
Si's have no torque, u need to rev the cr@p out of them to get the power. TC has a bigger 4 banger so it produces alot more torque much farther down in the powerband so that u can actually use the power everyday. Don't get me wrong the Si is a fun lil car n all but the TC is much better for everyday driving then the Si will be.
i was wondering about your statement, anyone feel free to come and jump in, but i was wondering about the torque and hp question since ive seen this over a number of sites and i did some google searching and found this,
Repeat after me. "It is better to make torque at high rpm than at low rpm, because you can take advantage of *gearing*." :-)
website
its taken from this site, kinda makes sense if you want to read the whole spiel.
just wondering if someone can further break it down a little bit more. just want to get an informed answer from my fellow scion peeps ^^
03-15-2007, 05:09 PM
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^Torque is what gets ur vehicle moving especially from a deal stop. Maximum torque at low to mid rpms is really what u want to pull urself out of the hole. Once ur going Horsepower takes over, you don't need as much torque up in the rpm because again ur already in motion. Ideally you want a nice flat torque curve especially at mid rpms which will benefit you all around.
The only way to make upper end torque will be the addition of a supercharger or turbocharger, other than that you need to decide how much of a compromise you need to make for your style of driving. If ur racing than a high compression high winding engine is what you'll need because again ur in motion and the small amount of torque won't really matter. If you need to pull stuff or your just driving normally on the street than you'll need the low end torque.
Another way to look at it is that a bigblock chevy for example, they usually are found in old trucks and cars because of the power needed to move these heavy vehicles around town. They have a ton of low end torque but now build it like a K20, big cam 11.5:1 compression ratio, high winding bottom end, this will make some serioius horsepower but now ur low end torque is signifficantly lower and ur mid to upper rpm toque has gone up a bit. Now try driving it on the street. U can't, the engine is pretty much dead down below and won't reach the beginning of its powerband to say 3,000rpm. Yes u can put a 3,000rpm stall converter in it but means to lay the power down u need to reach 3,000rpm+ and how offten are u going to wind ur motor out on the street?
Vtec doesn't hit untill about 6,000?(I'm sure its higher than that so plz correct me) So the K20 doesn't really make much power untill u hit 6,000rpm all the way up to its 8,200 fuel cut off. How offen are u goin to wind it up that high on the street, by the time ur getting out of first you'll be at the next light. The 2.4 camry motor in the tC makes about 164 torque at mid rpm making the car more responsive and pull harder all around. My first car was a 1989 Olds 88, had a 3.8 v6 that made 220 torque at 2,000rpm. All I can say is that when I would launch that car that thing pulled out of the hole HARD. Again the Si is a great car, but its better off on the track where it was designed to run.
Sorry if it seems like I ran on too much or confused some of u, just my .02. And If someone can but it in better words plz add on.
The only way to make upper end torque will be the addition of a supercharger or turbocharger, other than that you need to decide how much of a compromise you need to make for your style of driving. If ur racing than a high compression high winding engine is what you'll need because again ur in motion and the small amount of torque won't really matter. If you need to pull stuff or your just driving normally on the street than you'll need the low end torque.
Another way to look at it is that a bigblock chevy for example, they usually are found in old trucks and cars because of the power needed to move these heavy vehicles around town. They have a ton of low end torque but now build it like a K20, big cam 11.5:1 compression ratio, high winding bottom end, this will make some serioius horsepower but now ur low end torque is signifficantly lower and ur mid to upper rpm toque has gone up a bit. Now try driving it on the street. U can't, the engine is pretty much dead down below and won't reach the beginning of its powerband to say 3,000rpm. Yes u can put a 3,000rpm stall converter in it but means to lay the power down u need to reach 3,000rpm+ and how offten are u going to wind ur motor out on the street?
Vtec doesn't hit untill about 6,000?(I'm sure its higher than that so plz correct me) So the K20 doesn't really make much power untill u hit 6,000rpm all the way up to its 8,200 fuel cut off. How offen are u goin to wind it up that high on the street, by the time ur getting out of first you'll be at the next light. The 2.4 camry motor in the tC makes about 164 torque at mid rpm making the car more responsive and pull harder all around. My first car was a 1989 Olds 88, had a 3.8 v6 that made 220 torque at 2,000rpm. All I can say is that when I would launch that car that thing pulled out of the hole HARD. Again the Si is a great car, but its better off on the track where it was designed to run.
Sorry if it seems like I ran on too much or confused some of u, just my .02. And If someone can but it in better words plz add on.
03-16-2007, 01:16 AM
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Hey ran into this cool article on Edmonds.com They reviewed the SuperCharger vs. the civic SI...
Ch-Ch-Check it OOOOOuuut!!
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...pageNumber=1#2
Ch-Ch-Check it OOOOOuuut!!
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...pageNumber=1#2
03-16-2007, 02:52 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by DriverXa
^Torque is what gets ur vehicle moving especially from a deal stop. Maximum torque at low to mid rpms is really what u want to pull urself out of the hole. Once ur going Horsepower takes over, you don't need as much torque up in the rpm because again ur already in motion. Ideally you want a nice flat torque curve especially at mid rpms which will benefit you all around.
The only way to make upper end torque will be the addition of a supercharger or turbocharger, other than that you need to decide how much of a compromise you need to make for your style of driving. If ur racing than a high compression high winding engine is what you'll need because again ur in motion and the small amount of torque won't really matter. If you need to pull stuff or your just driving normally on the street than you'll need the low end torque.
Another way to look at it is that a bigblock chevy for example, they usually are found in old trucks and cars because of the power needed to move these heavy vehicles around town. They have a ton of low end torque but now build it like a K20, big cam 11.5:1 compression ratio, high winding bottom end, this will make some serioius horsepower but now ur low end torque is signifficantly lower and ur mid to upper rpm toque has gone up a bit. Now try driving it on the street. U can't, the engine is pretty much dead down below and won't reach the beginning of its powerband to say 3,000rpm. Yes u can put a 3,000rpm stall converter in it but means to lay the power down u need to reach 3,000rpm+ and how offten are u going to wind ur motor out on the street?
Vtec doesn't hit untill about 6,000?(I'm sure its higher than that so plz correct me) So the K20 doesn't really make much power untill u hit 6,000rpm all the way up to its 8,200 fuel cut off. How offen are u goin to wind it up that high on the street, by the time ur getting out of first you'll be at the next light. The 2.4 camry motor in the tC makes about 164 torque at mid rpm making the car more responsive and pull harder all around. My first car was a 1989 Olds 88, had a 3.8 v6 that made 220 torque at 2,000rpm. All I can say is that when I would launch that car that thing pulled out of the hole HARD. Again the Si is a great car, but its better off on the track where it was designed to run.
Sorry if it seems like I ran on too much or confused some of u, just my .02. And If someone can but it in better words plz add on.
The only way to make upper end torque will be the addition of a supercharger or turbocharger, other than that you need to decide how much of a compromise you need to make for your style of driving. If ur racing than a high compression high winding engine is what you'll need because again ur in motion and the small amount of torque won't really matter. If you need to pull stuff or your just driving normally on the street than you'll need the low end torque.
Another way to look at it is that a bigblock chevy for example, they usually are found in old trucks and cars because of the power needed to move these heavy vehicles around town. They have a ton of low end torque but now build it like a K20, big cam 11.5:1 compression ratio, high winding bottom end, this will make some serioius horsepower but now ur low end torque is signifficantly lower and ur mid to upper rpm toque has gone up a bit. Now try driving it on the street. U can't, the engine is pretty much dead down below and won't reach the beginning of its powerband to say 3,000rpm. Yes u can put a 3,000rpm stall converter in it but means to lay the power down u need to reach 3,000rpm+ and how offten are u going to wind ur motor out on the street?
Vtec doesn't hit untill about 6,000?(I'm sure its higher than that so plz correct me) So the K20 doesn't really make much power untill u hit 6,000rpm all the way up to its 8,200 fuel cut off. How offen are u goin to wind it up that high on the street, by the time ur getting out of first you'll be at the next light. The 2.4 camry motor in the tC makes about 164 torque at mid rpm making the car more responsive and pull harder all around. My first car was a 1989 Olds 88, had a 3.8 v6 that made 220 torque at 2,000rpm. All I can say is that when I would launch that car that thing pulled out of the hole HARD. Again the Si is a great car, but its better off on the track where it was designed to run.
Sorry if it seems like I ran on too much or confused some of u, just my .02. And If someone can but it in better words plz add on.
03-16-2007, 09:35 AM
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From the Emunds Article
man, zpi, turbonetics, greddy, scionspeed, & so many others must be genius' for developing the "impossible" turbo.
With so many aftermarket systems already available for the tC, we ask Gary Boler, business operations manager at TRD, what makes this system different. "We designed this system with three major goals in mind: maximum power, clean emissions and refined operation," he says.
Since there are aftermarket turbo kits that boost the tC's output by considerably more than 40 horsepower, we ask why TRD didn't go the turbo route. He mentions the tC's close-coupled exhaust catalyst that makes a turbo difficult, if not impossible, to fit. "We wanted to keep the installation simple for our dealers. Plus, a turbo generates a lot more heat under the hood."
Since there are aftermarket turbo kits that boost the tC's output by considerably more than 40 horsepower, we ask why TRD didn't go the turbo route. He mentions the tC's close-coupled exhaust catalyst that makes a turbo difficult, if not impossible, to fit. "We wanted to keep the installation simple for our dealers. Plus, a turbo generates a lot more heat under the hood."
03-16-2007, 09:39 AM
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Honda's hp/liter is great for motors, it's the best on the market (other than the 13B of course). But that means nothing at all if they don't have torque. In the latest Super Street they have dyno charts of an S2000...only 117 WTQ out of the box...that's PATHETIC.
On a lighter note, I'd much rather have a boosted tC for 20,000 and get to play around with Evo's, than have a Civic Si for 22,000 and play around with mini-vans.
On a lighter note, I'd much rather have a boosted tC for 20,000 and get to play around with Evo's, than have a Civic Si for 22,000 and play around with mini-vans.
03-16-2007, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by TeeCizzle
Hey ran into this cool article on Edmonds.com They reviewed the SuperCharger vs. the civic SI...
Ch-Ch-Check it OOOOOuuut!!
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...pageNumber=1#2
Ch-Ch-Check it OOOOOuuut!!
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...pageNumber=1#2
how did they manage to get the tc up to $26k?? They must have selected every single option + a 100k mile warranty or something...
