07 Civic Si NOT IMPRESSED!
03-16-2007, 12:44 PM
#21
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I looked and drove tc and si and bought the tc. Better for Autocrossing and it my help that I work at a toyota dealership
DriverXa ... nice job on explaining it. I deal with this everyday with customers
DriverXa ... nice job on explaining it. I deal with this everyday with customers
03-16-2007, 04:16 PM
#22
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thx Cooze.
TeeCizzle thx 4 that article. Supercharged tC 200hp and 184tq v civic si 197hp and 139tq, Id rather have the tC. I dunno how they ran a tC up to $26k, from the look of it they didn't even add the TRD exhaust, clutch, or short shifter.
Another thing the article fails to mention is that since the tC doesnt come with the supercharger from the factory and u have to add it on later u save a nice chunk of $$ over the Si on ur insurance (3door hatch v 2door sports car).
TeeCizzle thx 4 that article. Supercharged tC 200hp and 184tq v civic si 197hp and 139tq, Id rather have the tC. I dunno how they ran a tC up to $26k, from the look of it they didn't even add the TRD exhaust, clutch, or short shifter.
Another thing the article fails to mention is that since the tC doesnt come with the supercharger from the factory and u have to add it on later u save a nice chunk of $$ over the Si on ur insurance (3door hatch v 2door sports car).
03-17-2007, 01:07 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by DriverXa
thx Cooze.
TeeCizzle thx 4 that article. Supercharged tC 200hp and 184tq v civic si 197hp and 139tq, Id rather have the tC. I dunno how they ran a tC up to $26k, from the look of it they didn't even add the TRD exhaust, clutch, or short shifter.
Another thing the article fails to mention is that since the tC doesnt come with the supercharger from the factory and u have to add it on later u save a nice chunk of $$ over the Si on ur insurance (3door hatch v 2door sports car).
TeeCizzle thx 4 that article. Supercharged tC 200hp and 184tq v civic si 197hp and 139tq, Id rather have the tC. I dunno how they ran a tC up to $26k, from the look of it they didn't even add the TRD exhaust, clutch, or short shifter.
Another thing the article fails to mention is that since the tC doesnt come with the supercharger from the factory and u have to add it on later u save a nice chunk of $$ over the Si on ur insurance (3door hatch v 2door sports car).
03-17-2007, 04:38 AM
#24
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bashing the supercharger? wow I thought it would have gotten some more respect than that. I think the supercharger is something tC owners should use to their advantage, can u say sleeper. Plus its only puttin out 7psi, a smaller pully, header and exhaust, clutch n short shifter, and a good set of rubber would make the car even better.
03-17-2007, 04:57 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by DriverXa
^Torque is what gets ur vehicle moving especially from a deal stop. Maximum torque at low to mid rpms is really what u want to pull urself out of the hole. Once ur going Horsepower takes over, you don't need as much torque up in the rpm because again ur already in motion. Ideally you want a nice flat torque curve especially at mid rpms which will benefit you all around.
The only way to make upper end torque will be the addition of a supercharger or turbocharger, other than that you need to decide how much of a compromise you need to make for your style of driving. If ur racing than a high compression high winding engine is what you'll need because again ur in motion and the small amount of torque won't really matter. If you need to pull stuff or your just driving normally on the street than you'll need the low end torque.
Another way to look at it is that a bigblock chevy for example, they usually are found in old trucks and cars because of the power needed to move these heavy vehicles around town. They have a ton of low end torque but now build it like a K20, big cam 11.5:1 compression ratio, high winding bottom end, this will make some serioius horsepower but now ur low end torque is signifficantly lower and ur mid to upper rpm toque has gone up a bit. Now try driving it on the street. U can't, the engine is pretty much dead down below and won't reach the beginning of its powerband to say 3,000rpm. Yes u can put a 3,000rpm stall converter in it but means to lay the power down u need to reach 3,000rpm+ and how offten are u going to wind ur motor out on the street?
Vtec doesn't hit untill about 6,000?(I'm sure its higher than that so plz correct me) So the K20 doesn't really make much power untill u hit 6,000rpm all the way up to its 8,200 fuel cut off. How offen are u goin to wind it up that high on the street, by the time ur getting out of first you'll be at the next light. The 2.4 camry motor in the tC makes about 164 torque at mid rpm making the car more responsive and pull harder all around. My first car was a 1989 Olds 88, had a 3.8 v6 that made 220 torque at 2,000rpm. All I can say is that when I would launch that car that thing pulled out of the hole HARD. Again the Si is a great car, but its better off on the track where it was designed to run.
Sorry if it seems like I ran on too much or confused some of u, just my .02. And If someone can but it in better words plz add on.
The only way to make upper end torque will be the addition of a supercharger or turbocharger, other than that you need to decide how much of a compromise you need to make for your style of driving. If ur racing than a high compression high winding engine is what you'll need because again ur in motion and the small amount of torque won't really matter. If you need to pull stuff or your just driving normally on the street than you'll need the low end torque.
Another way to look at it is that a bigblock chevy for example, they usually are found in old trucks and cars because of the power needed to move these heavy vehicles around town. They have a ton of low end torque but now build it like a K20, big cam 11.5:1 compression ratio, high winding bottom end, this will make some serioius horsepower but now ur low end torque is signifficantly lower and ur mid to upper rpm toque has gone up a bit. Now try driving it on the street. U can't, the engine is pretty much dead down below and won't reach the beginning of its powerband to say 3,000rpm. Yes u can put a 3,000rpm stall converter in it but means to lay the power down u need to reach 3,000rpm+ and how offten are u going to wind ur motor out on the street?
Vtec doesn't hit untill about 6,000?(I'm sure its higher than that so plz correct me) So the K20 doesn't really make much power untill u hit 6,000rpm all the way up to its 8,200 fuel cut off. How offen are u goin to wind it up that high on the street, by the time ur getting out of first you'll be at the next light. The 2.4 camry motor in the tC makes about 164 torque at mid rpm making the car more responsive and pull harder all around. My first car was a 1989 Olds 88, had a 3.8 v6 that made 220 torque at 2,000rpm. All I can say is that when I would launch that car that thing pulled out of the hole HARD. Again the Si is a great car, but its better off on the track where it was designed to run.
Sorry if it seems like I ran on too much or confused some of u, just my .02. And If someone can but it in better words plz add on.
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature..._civic_si.html
My si is definately faster than my tC, although my tC was a auto. All I had on it was a Cai and my best time at the track ever was a 16.9, but I recently took the si to the track while it was still breaking in and ran a 15.4 w/2.5 60ft times(___ terrible, gotta work on my launching), But our track is 1500 ft above sea level and that maybe equates to maybe a .1 or .2 seconds due to the less dense air=less horsepower. and also take into effect that I am a terrible driver as this is my first stick car. That is just my personal experience. But I have a friend that also has a si with just an intake and exhaust and is a much better driver than me and he runs consistent 14.6's. I am also gettin 27-29 mpg on a daily basis and lets just say I drive like a mother. But overall I am happy with my purchase. I really enjoy it. Btw Hondata offers a reflash for Si's that lower vtec to 4800 I believe and It makes a Dramatic difference in the midrange. With the reflash, intake, and header, I BELIEVE someone dyno'd about 210hp and 175tq to the wheels I will see If I can find the post. Also this forum is greater than all. All honda guys are jacka$$e$. I rather stay here.
Edit: to the guy that said something about insurance. Mine only went up 60 bucks for every 6 months. Not bad if you ask me. Btw I have a sedan si, not coupe.
lol..
03-21-2007, 04:18 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by thisisdudewhoru
Originally Posted by DriverXa
^Torque is what gets ur vehicle moving especially from a deal stop. Maximum torque at low to mid rpms is really what u want to pull urself out of the hole. Once ur going Horsepower takes over, you don't need as much torque up in the rpm because again ur already in motion. Ideally you want a nice flat torque curve especially at mid rpms which will benefit you all around.
The only way to make upper end torque will be the addition of a supercharger or turbocharger, other than that you need to decide how much of a compromise you need to make for your style of driving. If ur racing than a high compression high winding engine is what you'll need because again ur in motion and the small amount of torque won't really matter. If you need to pull stuff or your just driving normally on the street than you'll need the low end torque.
Another way to look at it is that a bigblock chevy for example, they usually are found in old trucks and cars because of the power needed to move these heavy vehicles around town. They have a ton of low end torque but now build it like a K20, big cam 11.5:1 compression ratio, high winding bottom end, this will make some serioius horsepower but now ur low end torque is signifficantly lower and ur mid to upper rpm toque has gone up a bit. Now try driving it on the street. U can't, the engine is pretty much dead down below and won't reach the beginning of its powerband to say 3,000rpm. Yes u can put a 3,000rpm stall converter in it but means to lay the power down u need to reach 3,000rpm+ and how offten are u going to wind ur motor out on the street?
Vtec doesn't hit untill about 6,000?(I'm sure its higher than that so plz correct me) So the K20 doesn't really make much power untill u hit 6,000rpm all the way up to its 8,200 fuel cut off. How offen are u goin to wind it up that high on the street, by the time ur getting out of first you'll be at the next light. The 2.4 camry motor in the tC makes about 164 torque at mid rpm making the car more responsive and pull harder all around. My first car was a 1989 Olds 88, had a 3.8 v6 that made 220 torque at 2,000rpm. All I can say is that when I would launch that car that thing pulled out of the hole HARD. Again the Si is a great car, but its better off on the track where it was designed to run.
Sorry if it seems like I ran on too much or confused some of u, just my .02. And If someone can but it in better words plz add on.
The only way to make upper end torque will be the addition of a supercharger or turbocharger, other than that you need to decide how much of a compromise you need to make for your style of driving. If ur racing than a high compression high winding engine is what you'll need because again ur in motion and the small amount of torque won't really matter. If you need to pull stuff or your just driving normally on the street than you'll need the low end torque.
Another way to look at it is that a bigblock chevy for example, they usually are found in old trucks and cars because of the power needed to move these heavy vehicles around town. They have a ton of low end torque but now build it like a K20, big cam 11.5:1 compression ratio, high winding bottom end, this will make some serioius horsepower but now ur low end torque is signifficantly lower and ur mid to upper rpm toque has gone up a bit. Now try driving it on the street. U can't, the engine is pretty much dead down below and won't reach the beginning of its powerband to say 3,000rpm. Yes u can put a 3,000rpm stall converter in it but means to lay the power down u need to reach 3,000rpm+ and how offten are u going to wind ur motor out on the street?
Vtec doesn't hit untill about 6,000?(I'm sure its higher than that so plz correct me) So the K20 doesn't really make much power untill u hit 6,000rpm all the way up to its 8,200 fuel cut off. How offen are u goin to wind it up that high on the street, by the time ur getting out of first you'll be at the next light. The 2.4 camry motor in the tC makes about 164 torque at mid rpm making the car more responsive and pull harder all around. My first car was a 1989 Olds 88, had a 3.8 v6 that made 220 torque at 2,000rpm. All I can say is that when I would launch that car that thing pulled out of the hole HARD. Again the Si is a great car, but its better off on the track where it was designed to run.
Sorry if it seems like I ran on too much or confused some of u, just my .02. And If someone can but it in better words plz add on.
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature..._civic_si.html
My si is definately faster than my tC, although my tC was a auto. All I had on it was a Cai and my best time at the track ever was a 16.9, but I recently took the si to the track while it was still breaking in and ran a 15.4 w/2.5 60ft times(butt terrible, gotta work on my launching), But our track is 1500 ft above sea level and that maybe equates to maybe a .1 or .2 seconds due to the less dense air=less horsepower. and also take into effect that I am a terrible driver as this is my first stick car. That is just my personal experience. But I have a friend that also has a si with just an intake and exhaust and is a much better driver than me and he runs consistent 14.6's. I am also gettin 27-29 mpg on a daily basis and lets just say I drive like a mother. But overall I am happy with my purchase. I really enjoy it. Btw Hondata offers a reflash for Si's that lower vtec to 4800 I believe and It makes a Dramatic difference in the midrange. With the reflash, intake, and header, I BELIEVE someone dyno'd about 210hp and 175tq to the wheels I will see If I can find the post. Also this forum is greater than all. All honda guys are jacka$$e$. I rather stay here.
Edit: to the guy that said something about insurance. Mine only went up 60 bucks for every 6 months. Not bad if you ask me. Btw I have a sedan si, not coupe.
Edit : Also, you can't really compare the N/A tC vs the Si, theyre in completely different price ranges. If you're going to do the comparison, you need to do the S/C tC vs the Si, which results in 180/180 (tC) vs 180/140 (Si). They're numbers are near identicle all around, simply because the tC lacks LSD.
03-21-2007, 11:54 PM
#30
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your not the only one to be upset with the results of the tuned 2007 s2k in the recent mag article....i'm not happy with the route honda's going...i just hope the rumor of the s2000 CR in april is true and its worth a damn...
but anyways new civic si...sorry...cow.
but anyways new civic si...sorry...cow.
05-17-2007, 09:44 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by CarbonXe
Originally Posted by thisisdudewhoru
Originally Posted by DriverXa
^Torque is what gets ur vehicle moving especially from a deal stop. Maximum torque at low to mid rpms is really what u want to pull urself out of the hole. Once ur going Horsepower takes over, you don't need as much torque up in the rpm because again ur already in motion. Ideally you want a nice flat torque curve especially at mid rpms which will benefit you all around.
The only way to make upper end torque will be the addition of a supercharger or turbocharger, other than that you need to decide how much of a compromise you need to make for your style of driving. If ur racing than a high compression high winding engine is what you'll need because again ur in motion and the small amount of torque won't really matter. If you need to pull stuff or your just driving normally on the street than you'll need the low end torque.
Another way to look at it is that a bigblock chevy for example, they usually are found in old trucks and cars because of the power needed to move these heavy vehicles around town. They have a ton of low end torque but now build it like a K20, big cam 11.5:1 compression ratio, high winding bottom end, this will make some serioius horsepower but now ur low end torque is signifficantly lower and ur mid to upper rpm toque has gone up a bit. Now try driving it on the street. U can't, the engine is pretty much dead down below and won't reach the beginning of its powerband to say 3,000rpm. Yes u can put a 3,000rpm stall converter in it but means to lay the power down u need to reach 3,000rpm+ and how offten are u going to wind ur motor out on the street?
Vtec doesn't hit untill about 6,000?(I'm sure its higher than that so plz correct me) So the K20 doesn't really make much power untill u hit 6,000rpm all the way up to its 8,200 fuel cut off. How offen are u goin to wind it up that high on the street, by the time ur getting out of first you'll be at the next light. The 2.4 camry motor in the tC makes about 164 torque at mid rpm making the car more responsive and pull harder all around. My first car was a 1989 Olds 88, had a 3.8 v6 that made 220 torque at 2,000rpm. All I can say is that when I would launch that car that thing pulled out of the hole HARD. Again the Si is a great car, but its better off on the track where it was designed to run.
Sorry if it seems like I ran on too much or confused some of u, just my .02. And If someone can but it in better words plz add on.
The only way to make upper end torque will be the addition of a supercharger or turbocharger, other than that you need to decide how much of a compromise you need to make for your style of driving. If ur racing than a high compression high winding engine is what you'll need because again ur in motion and the small amount of torque won't really matter. If you need to pull stuff or your just driving normally on the street than you'll need the low end torque.
Another way to look at it is that a bigblock chevy for example, they usually are found in old trucks and cars because of the power needed to move these heavy vehicles around town. They have a ton of low end torque but now build it like a K20, big cam 11.5:1 compression ratio, high winding bottom end, this will make some serioius horsepower but now ur low end torque is signifficantly lower and ur mid to upper rpm toque has gone up a bit. Now try driving it on the street. U can't, the engine is pretty much dead down below and won't reach the beginning of its powerband to say 3,000rpm. Yes u can put a 3,000rpm stall converter in it but means to lay the power down u need to reach 3,000rpm+ and how offten are u going to wind ur motor out on the street?
Vtec doesn't hit untill about 6,000?(I'm sure its higher than that so plz correct me) So the K20 doesn't really make much power untill u hit 6,000rpm all the way up to its 8,200 fuel cut off. How offen are u goin to wind it up that high on the street, by the time ur getting out of first you'll be at the next light. The 2.4 camry motor in the tC makes about 164 torque at mid rpm making the car more responsive and pull harder all around. My first car was a 1989 Olds 88, had a 3.8 v6 that made 220 torque at 2,000rpm. All I can say is that when I would launch that car that thing pulled out of the hole HARD. Again the Si is a great car, but its better off on the track where it was designed to run.
Sorry if it seems like I ran on too much or confused some of u, just my .02. And If someone can but it in better words plz add on.
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature..._civic_si.html
My si is definately faster than my tC, although my tC was a auto. All I had on it was a Cai and my best time at the track ever was a 16.9, but I recently took the si to the track while it was still breaking in and ran a 15.4 w/2.5 60ft times(butt terrible, gotta work on my launching), But our track is 1500 ft above sea level and that maybe equates to maybe a .1 or .2 seconds due to the less dense air=less horsepower. and also take into effect that I am a terrible driver as this is my first stick car. That is just my personal experience. But I have a friend that also has a si with just an intake and exhaust and is a much better driver than me and he runs consistent 14.6's. I am also gettin 27-29 mpg on a daily basis and lets just say I drive like a mother. But overall I am happy with my purchase. I really enjoy it. Btw Hondata offers a reflash for Si's that lower vtec to 4800 I believe and It makes a Dramatic difference in the midrange. With the reflash, intake, and header, I BELIEVE someone dyno'd about 210hp and 175tq to the wheels I will see If I can find the post. Also this forum is greater than all. All honda guys are jacka$$e$. I rather stay here.
Edit: to the guy that said something about insurance. Mine only went up 60 bucks for every 6 months. Not bad if you ask me. Btw I have a sedan si, not coupe.
Edit : Also, you can't really compare the N/A tC vs the Si, theyre in completely different price ranges. If you're going to do the comparison, you need to do the S/C tC vs the Si, which results in 180/180 (tC) vs 180/140 (Si). They're numbers are near identicle all around, simply because the tC lacks LSD.
Haven't been on here in forever. Bringing this thread back from the dead. Car and driver tested the new si with a 15.1 in the quarter. I was .3 seconds off. And my tC was a AUTO not a stick.
07-21-2007, 02:22 AM
#32
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4
Hey Guys
Hey guys I own 06 Civic Si and like to say that most of you guys are great enthusiasts. Being a honda owner I am aware of the all too regular Fanboi and I am not one of them. My friend is currently looking for a car and the 08 Scion Tc may be it, unlike me he has a <18 budget so he couldnt get an Si(he really loves my car). I recently went to a dealer and test drove a Tc and boy was I amazed. On my forum people make the Tc seem like a bus but after driving it this baby got Pull. I love the torque on this car and the scion pricing. Not all Si guys are ___ most of us are viable enthusiasts
07-21-2007, 02:55 AM
#33
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Posts: 48
Re: Hey Guys
Originally Posted by GG06CivicSi
Hey guys I own 06 Civic Si and like to say that most of you guys are great enthusiasts. Being a honda owner I am aware of the all too regular Fanboi and I am not one of them. My friend is currently looking for a car and the 08 Scion Tc may be it, unlike me he has a <18 budget so he couldnt get an Si(he really loves my car). I recently went to a dealer and test drove a Tc and boy was I amazed. On my forum people make the Tc seem like a bus but after driving it this baby got Pull. I love the torque on this car and the scion pricing. Not all Si guys are ___ most of us are viable enthusiasts
japanese engineering ftw
07-24-2007, 10:59 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by ritz
From the Emunds Article
man, zpi, turbonetics, greddy, scionspeed, & so many others must be genius' for developing the "impossible" turbo.
With so many aftermarket systems already available for the tC, we ask Gary Boler, business operations manager at TRD, what makes this system different. "We designed this system with three major goals in mind: maximum power, clean emissions and refined operation," he says.
Since there are aftermarket turbo kits that boost the tC's output by considerably more than 40 horsepower, we ask why TRD didn't go the turbo route. He mentions the tC's close-coupled exhaust catalyst that makes a turbo difficult, if not impossible, to fit. "We wanted to keep the installation simple for our dealers. Plus, a turbo generates a lot more heat under the hood."
Since there are aftermarket turbo kits that boost the tC's output by considerably more than 40 horsepower, we ask why TRD didn't go the turbo route. He mentions the tC's close-coupled exhaust catalyst that makes a turbo difficult, if not impossible, to fit. "We wanted to keep the installation simple for our dealers. Plus, a turbo generates a lot more heat under the hood."
08-24-2007, 07:07 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by DriverXa
bashing the supercharger? wow I thought it would have gotten some more respect than that. I think the supercharger is something tC owners should use to their advantage, can u say sleeper. Plus its only puttin out 7psi, a smaller pully, header and exhaust, clutch n short shifter, and a good set of rubber would make the car even better.
I kinda agree, but the cost of the supercharger = approx. $3K , plus install $, plus the fact that you have to put in 91+ octane gas= more $ , not to mention your gas mpg's go down 3-4 more mpgs , from the 26 avg. stock. You gotta be a big hp/torque freak to really want to put out that $ = considering what you get. Why not get a Imprezza RS for the same $ , or save up some more $$ - and get a WRX.
If I had a tC, I'd just do a nice CAI, Borla exhaust, and nice header = should be right about 25 ish hp right there( so maybe up to 180 hp, I've heard the stock tC produces 155 hp ), plus it would cost $800 ish , and you can still use 87 octane - mpg's might suffer by 2mpgs less, give or take. No so sure what the jump in torque would be in doing the 3 items listed above , but shoujld add some.
Ohhhh, PS - I personally thought the SI's interior $ucked/$ucks. I haven't taken one out, but just sitting in one didn't impress me for the $
09-30-2007, 01:00 AM
#36
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Re: Hey Guys
Originally Posted by GG06CivicSi
Hey guys I own 06 Civic Si and like to say that most of you guys are great enthusiasts. Being a honda owner I am aware of the all too regular Fanboi and I am not one of them. My friend is currently looking for a car and the 08 Scion Tc may be it, unlike me he has a <18 budget so he couldnt get an Si(he really loves my car). I recently went to a dealer and test drove a Tc and boy was I amazed. On my forum people make the Tc seem like a bus but after driving it this baby got Pull. I love the torque on this car and the scion pricing. Not all Si guys are ___ most of us are viable enthusiasts
10-20-2007, 01:06 AM
#38
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ontario
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this may be off topic but my question is doesnt the si and the rsx-s have the same motor. i raced my friend and he has an 03 or 04 rsx-s. i jumped off the like took him for a sec then he cought up, but he didnt beat me by much, it was prolly a half a car to one car. i was dissapointed about that as well. everyone put up a bit hype about the rsx-s and i didnt prove anything
10-21-2007, 11:42 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Super-Stormtrooper07
Originally Posted by DriverXa
bashing the supercharger? wow I thought it would have gotten some more respect than that. I think the supercharger is something tC owners should use to their advantage, can u say sleeper. Plus its only puttin out 7psi, a smaller pully, header and exhaust, clutch n short shifter, and a good set of rubber would make the car even better.
I kinda agree, but the cost of the supercharger = approx. $3K , plus install $, plus the fact that you have to put in 91+ octane gas= more $ , not to mention your gas mpg's go down 3-4 more mpgs , from the 26 avg. stock. You gotta be a big hp/torque freak to really want to put out that $ = considering what you get. Why not get a Imprezza RS for the same $ , or save up some more $$ - and get a WRX.
If I had a tC, I'd just do a nice CAI, Borla exhaust, and nice header = should be right about 25 ish hp right there( so maybe up to 180 hp, I've heard the stock tC produces 155 hp ), plus it would cost $800 ish , and you can still use 87 octane - mpg's might suffer by 2mpgs less, give or take. No so sure what the jump in torque would be in doing the 3 items listed above , but shoujld add some.
Ohhhh, PS - I personally thought the SI's interior $ucked/$ucks. I haven't taken one out, but just sitting in one didn't impress me for the $
Si's are also going to cost more to make faster. I haven't heard of one highly modified Si yet.
