dskinner

Dear ScionLife enthusiasts,

I keep up every month on the topics and reports found in the major magazines (such as Car and Driver, R&T, etc.) but I have not come accross much more than a general knowledge column concerning bioethanol fuel. From what I understand, it is produced in America and is made from a sugar furmentation process. I understand that it's much cleaner to burn, but I was wondering if it's just temporary hype (like the propane trucks a few years ago) or if it's here to stay. Haven't heard anything about it from Toyota, and I'm pretty curious. Lots of customers have come in asking for it over the past couple of weeks and would like to know more... Thanks.

-David

omicron

I saw several news reports on ethanol recently. In the US, they are paying farmers to produce corn ethanol. Some of it is blended with our regular gasoline. The ethanol is so corrosive that it cannot be transported via pipes - only by train tankers or truck tankers. Not all cars can take ethanol.

Sugar ethanol is also possible. I saw a program on CNN about Brazil using sugar ethanol for 30 years. In Brazil, some cars can take both regular gas and sugar ethanol.
You could read about it here:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html

ReverseGTR

America has been experimenting with using bioethanol fuels since right after as well as I think even during WWII, GM uses it as one of their bragging rights since they are still pretty much heading the effort along with the federal government since that time with Ford right behind. Right now there are a group of stations set up in the midwest that specialize in an E85 mixture which is called that because it is 15% gasoline and 85% ethanol.

There are also certain cars in the US that, like in Brazil, can take both petrol and that ethanol mixture. You can tell if it does take E85 if see a green leaf logo on the side. Try looking for it on a Ford Taurus, F150 or Chevy Tahoe sometime.

hotbox05

pity it eats rubber anything like no tomorrow.


hemp shoes anyone. loll hippies.

scionofPCFL

These alternative fuels have been around for a while now. However, when gas was 1.25/gal they were WAY too pricey. Now that they are the same or even less than petro, the technologies will start to be developed further. Which, of course, in theory, should run the price down....eventually.


But anyway, here is some food for thought: BioWillie: www.wnbiodiesel.com

avus

dskinner

^^^ Yea I saw that the day after I posted the thread. We actually have some of the stations here in Tucson, so I'm sure that they have spread all throughout the country now, especially since GM is pushing the advertisement on it.

hotbox05

hybrid synergy drive will rule the world one day good for toyota bad for anyone who ever wants to work on their cars.

hotbox05

oh and i've yet to see a single e85 station in cali... poo

dskinner

^^ Hmmm... I would have thought that those CARB guys would have a zillion of those set up all over.

hotbox05

none at all. we aren't near corn. .......

dskinner

Ahhh, I see. There's gotta be some potential there though, seeing as how you are a lot closer to corn than you are crude oil.

hotbox05

kind of . crude oil comes from alaska and texas as well as the middle east.......

Spiderbox

ethanol is not a permanent solution to the problem. ethanol is made from corn. the reason why they chose corn instead of some other alternative fuel is because corn is cheaply, mass produced and because the government is already paying huge subsidies to farmers for growing genetically engineered corn that no one wants. this means that certain companies with huge stakes in the corn industry *ahem* GM, and the government can profit heavily without investing in an alternative, permanent fuel.

corn starch, corn syrup, corn cellulose, is used in virtually every bread, pastry, medicine, soda, candy bar, pretty much almost anyt processed goods we ingest has some kind of corn product in it. There are even bags of sugar and sugar free candy are made from corn. well you may ask whats so bad about corn? the answer to that is that the corn that is circulating in our country is genetically modified corn. genetically modified as in genetically modified to resist pesticides. so that they can hose down the plant with poisionus chemicals and still have it processed for us to consume "safely".

it is true that ethanol burn cleanly. but lets look at the negative properties of ethanol. besides the corrosive properties, ethanol has a very high octane and does not ignite easily in normal cars without the help of a mixture of petrol. that is why its called E85, 85% ethanol, 15% petrol. so we will still be dependent on oil for our cars to run. the corn has to be grown, requiring vast amounts of land and time and also genetically modified corn assimilates any natural corn strain exposed to it.

what i see is the oil companies wanting to charge us the same price for e85 to rake in a larger profit. why waste time providing a more permanent fuel alternative when they can make money with something they've already invested in? the auto industry seems to be going in different directions, toyota seems devoted to hybrids, GM is going with ethanol, it doesnt looks good for us as consumers.

hotbox05

you seem to hate genetically engineered corn. good thing i don't eat corn directly. i do love my candies tho yum

Lekker

Actually, Ethanol can be made from anything with cellulose.

As everyone has mentioned it can be made from corn. However, it can also be made from corn stalks (usually a waste product), saw dust, grass, and wood chips.

Ethanol is not the perfect fuel, but it is a step in the right direction of reducing GHGs.

dskinner

^^^ And much more realistic than the whole hydrogen deal.