Extremely Neat Future Scion Vehicle
12-03-2006, 03:02 AM
#1
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Extremely Neat Future Scion Vehicle
I'm reposting this here, because I'm a noob and tried to post in in off-topic but I'm too new and it was bumped to xB owners lounge.
I don't usually make a new thread unless I really have to or have a good idea. So here's my good idea.
I have a pretty thorough understanding of the auto industry now, and I'm convinced this is a feasible idea.
Scion is all about exclusivity (see Scion Plays Hard to Get article on front page.) The tC is major proof of this, as it was developed and marketed in only one market (albeit the biggest) and built virtually from scratch to be sold inexpensively at relatively limited numbers. It combines parts and assemblies from various other Toyota's (Camry drivetrain, Avensis chassis, Toyota OE wheels) and adds unique body and interior to make something completely original - not only within Toyota but over the whole market. The tC project was probably looked at as moderately risky by Toyota, and as Scion is a brand for "testing new ideas," it was well worth the risk.
OK I'm amazed if you're still reading, the idea:
Make a front engine, rear wheel drive Scion 2-door hatch as small as possible, and try and sell it for around $22,000 USD.
Obviously the body and interior would be completely unique. For this I would suggest styling as basic and clean as the tC but with more of a sport/enthusiast theme.
The drivetrain would come from the longitudinal 3S-GE engine/6-speed units and differentials from the old Altezza (JDM)/IS200 (UK), which I'm sure Toyota is still capable of producing reasonably.
The chassis would likely come from the Toyota Caldina GT-Four AWD chassis (JDM) - it could be shortened and modified to fit the bill just as the Avensis chassis was for the tC. Remember, I said to keep it as small as possible.
To make this car would involve the same effort that went into producing the tC, except in this case an old engine/drivelive combo would have to be re-instated for production. The tC engine/driveline was simpler (FWD) and already in mega-mass production (Camry.) Considering the price of the JDM Altezza with the 3S-GE RWD drivetrain in it (~$24,000 USD base,) the price of this concept could definitely be kept realistic.
What is the point of all this? Scion is around to test things out, and that much more prestige/mysteriousness (heh) would be added to the Scion name if the ghost of the AE86 came back to haunt the highways of the world with that goofy emblem on it. Could you imagine a little nifty looking FR bugger with 180 or so HP and a 5 or 6 speed revving up to ~8000 prm, costing maybe just a little more than a Civic Si? I can.
I thought of this when I was looking for an AE86 project car, and realized there are no new equivalents to it and really might never be. Yikes. I think Toyota could do the sport/enthusiast world a favor, considering the performance hiatus they have been on since the Supra/GT-Four age.
I don't usually make a new thread unless I really have to or have a good idea. So here's my good idea.
I have a pretty thorough understanding of the auto industry now, and I'm convinced this is a feasible idea.
Scion is all about exclusivity (see Scion Plays Hard to Get article on front page.) The tC is major proof of this, as it was developed and marketed in only one market (albeit the biggest) and built virtually from scratch to be sold inexpensively at relatively limited numbers. It combines parts and assemblies from various other Toyota's (Camry drivetrain, Avensis chassis, Toyota OE wheels) and adds unique body and interior to make something completely original - not only within Toyota but over the whole market. The tC project was probably looked at as moderately risky by Toyota, and as Scion is a brand for "testing new ideas," it was well worth the risk.
OK I'm amazed if you're still reading, the idea:
Make a front engine, rear wheel drive Scion 2-door hatch as small as possible, and try and sell it for around $22,000 USD.
Obviously the body and interior would be completely unique. For this I would suggest styling as basic and clean as the tC but with more of a sport/enthusiast theme.
The drivetrain would come from the longitudinal 3S-GE engine/6-speed units and differentials from the old Altezza (JDM)/IS200 (UK), which I'm sure Toyota is still capable of producing reasonably.
The chassis would likely come from the Toyota Caldina GT-Four AWD chassis (JDM) - it could be shortened and modified to fit the bill just as the Avensis chassis was for the tC. Remember, I said to keep it as small as possible.
To make this car would involve the same effort that went into producing the tC, except in this case an old engine/drivelive combo would have to be re-instated for production. The tC engine/driveline was simpler (FWD) and already in mega-mass production (Camry.) Considering the price of the JDM Altezza with the 3S-GE RWD drivetrain in it (~$24,000 USD base,) the price of this concept could definitely be kept realistic.
What is the point of all this? Scion is around to test things out, and that much more prestige/mysteriousness (heh) would be added to the Scion name if the ghost of the AE86 came back to haunt the highways of the world with that goofy emblem on it. Could you imagine a little nifty looking FR bugger with 180 or so HP and a 5 or 6 speed revving up to ~8000 prm, costing maybe just a little more than a Civic Si? I can.
I thought of this when I was looking for an AE86 project car, and realized there are no new equivalents to it and really might never be. Yikes. I think Toyota could do the sport/enthusiast world a favor, considering the performance hiatus they have been on since the Supra/GT-Four age.
12-03-2006, 03:16 AM
#2
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You sir, have a great idea. I would definitely be looking into performance options, not audio, if this car weren't front-wheel drive.
Alas, these things never really reach Toyota's ears. Long Live the CAMRY! America's number one grandma car.
Alas, these things never really reach Toyota's ears. Long Live the CAMRY! America's number one grandma car.
12-03-2006, 03:19 AM
#3
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Scion Evolution
What about a small hatch RWD with a little more tuned 2AZ-FE? That would be more economical for Toyota since the New xB, Matrix and Corolla will have the drivetrain from the tC.
12-03-2006, 03:38 AM
#4
Of course there are equals and betters to the ae86 
Initial D is the only thing the car has going for it besides a flawless jdm look. Equals include
Toyota pickup truck or tacoma 2wd *LOL*
Or you can better the 86 in every way except drifting by going with an aw11 or an ae82, and in some cases I have seen the aw11 drift like no other. But parts for the ae82 "fx16 gts" are very hard to come by and most have to be custom made. aw11 parts are all over and so are aw11's
I have built and run corolla gts's in ae86, ae82 and ae92 form over the years. The 4ag is my specialty in all of it's forms, lc, hc, gze, gte, 20v st and 20v bt. To the point I hate the 86 now because every freakin teenager thinks he is Takumi with one and most do not know a spark plug from a fuel injector. They are however a good old rwd car for the day, light weight and does drift well because how well it is balanced. Good aftermarket support. Just brings back nightmares of rusted parts, bushings that have become part of the chassis, and not to mention most have 500,000 miles on them so everything needs rebuilt.
But anyways, yes I do agree... I would have to buy a rwd scion coupe or hatch if they came out with one.
For a more current engine, they should bring over the beams dual vvt-i 3sge with 6 speed woohoo! would be perfect. Or make a stroked 1nz with a g series head. Never was a fan of the 2zz but suppose that would work ok as well.
Initial D is the only thing the car has going for it besides a flawless jdm look. Equals includeToyota pickup truck or tacoma 2wd *LOL*
Or you can better the 86 in every way except drifting by going with an aw11 or an ae82, and in some cases I have seen the aw11 drift like no other. But parts for the ae82 "fx16 gts" are very hard to come by and most have to be custom made. aw11 parts are all over and so are aw11's
I have built and run corolla gts's in ae86, ae82 and ae92 form over the years. The 4ag is my specialty in all of it's forms, lc, hc, gze, gte, 20v st and 20v bt. To the point I hate the 86 now because every freakin teenager thinks he is Takumi with one and most do not know a spark plug from a fuel injector. They are however a good old rwd car for the day, light weight and does drift well because how well it is balanced. Good aftermarket support. Just brings back nightmares of rusted parts, bushings that have become part of the chassis, and not to mention most have 500,000 miles on them so everything needs rebuilt.
But anyways, yes I do agree... I would have to buy a rwd scion coupe or hatch if they came out with one.
For a more current engine, they should bring over the beams dual vvt-i 3sge with 6 speed woohoo! would be perfect. Or make a stroked 1nz with a g series head. Never was a fan of the 2zz but suppose that would work ok as well.
12-03-2006, 03:53 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by Garage1217
For a more current engine, they should bring over the beams dual vvt-i 3sge with 6 speed woohoo! would be perfect. Or make a stroked 1nz with a g series head. Never was a fan of the 2zz but suppose that would work ok as well.
12-03-2006, 03:57 AM
#6
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Yea, the 3S-GE would be perfect for the application... if a 2AZ-FE was fitted with a longitudinal drivetrain, I'd take that, too - anything would be better than not having a car like this around.
Yea, the 86 has definitely become an American teen hero-car - not a prestegious title. It is, however a motorsports staple for more reaosns than its drifting ability - light weight and 50/50 weight distribution spell performance.
Those rusted out nightmares aren't going to be around forever, and the motorsport image isn't improving (ricer-ness.) I think an affordable, practical, true performer should be available to those who desire it, and I think an FR drivetrain is very important, too (don't say Miata - recall "practical.")
Yea, the 86 has definitely become an American teen hero-car - not a prestegious title. It is, however a motorsports staple for more reaosns than its drifting ability - light weight and 50/50 weight distribution spell performance.
Those rusted out nightmares aren't going to be around forever, and the motorsport image isn't improving (ricer-ness.) I think an affordable, practical, true performer should be available to those who desire it, and I think an FR drivetrain is very important, too (don't say Miata - recall "practical.")
12-03-2006, 04:06 AM
#7
If I could build it myself....
She would be about the size of a yaris hatch with a chopped roof and about a foot and a half longer. Right at 1900 lbs and I would bring back the 4ag 20v in a dual vvt-i n/a setup stroked to 1.8L running around 11.5:1 to 12:1.... Yeah that would do just fine
She would be about the size of a yaris hatch with a chopped roof and about a foot and a half longer. Right at 1900 lbs and I would bring back the 4ag 20v in a dual vvt-i n/a setup stroked to 1.8L running around 11.5:1 to 12:1.... Yeah that would do just fine
12-03-2006, 04:21 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by Garage1217
If I could build it myself....
She would be about the size of a yaris hatch with a chopped roof and about a foot and a half longer. Right at 1900 lbs and I would bring back the 4ag 20v in a dual vvt-i n/a setup stroked to 1.8L running around 11.5:1 to 12:1.... Yeah that would do just fine
She would be about the size of a yaris hatch with a chopped roof and about a foot and a half longer. Right at 1900 lbs and I would bring back the 4ag 20v in a dual vvt-i n/a setup stroked to 1.8L running around 11.5:1 to 12:1.... Yeah that would do just fine
We are talking about an "economical" car here. Most of the ppl would not want to use 93 octane all the time. I was thinking of the Yaris a long time ago, but with a 2ZZ. Still maybe a tuned up ver. of the 1ZZ could be a better option since the engine is a little less expensive. I would say an xA maybe, if keeping with the current Scion line. an xA with a 1ZZ pushing 165 or 170hp, a better suspension an make it a like a special edition.
12-03-2006, 04:26 AM
#9
I had a goofy dream the other night of a built 1nz turbo yaris... but with rear disk brakes and it was badged as a starlet for the us hahaha Man I need to dream of other things
And hey, the 20V blacktop was 11:1 stock and ran just fine on 91 with todays tech she could run fine on 91 at 11.5:1 also
And hey, the 20V blacktop was 11:1 stock and ran just fine on 91
with todays tech she could run fine on 91 at 11.5:1 also
12-03-2006, 04:31 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by Garage1217
I had a goofy dream the other night of a built 1nz turbo yaris... but with rear disk brakes and it was badged as a starlet for the us hahaha Man I need to dream of other things
And hey, the 20V blacktop was 11:1 stock and ran just fine on 91 with todays tech she could run fine on 91 at 11.5:1 also
And hey, the 20V blacktop was 11:1 stock and ran just fine on 91
with todays tech she could run fine on 91 at 11.5:1 also
12-03-2006, 04:43 AM
#12
You know about the toyota runx 180 rsi don't ya..? I am soooo waiting for it in the usa... Here are it's engine specs... basically a hot rod yaris with a 6 speed...
Engine Layout transverse inline 4
Cylinders 4
Aspiration natural
Valves dohc 4 valves per cylinder, vvtl-i
Bore / Stroke 82.0x85.0
Capacity 1796
Compression Ratio 11.5:1
Ignition Type toyota direct ignition system
Gearbox Details 6 speed manual
Hybrid / Clutchless no
Number of Gears 6
Manual / Automatic manual
Engine Layout transverse inline 4
Cylinders 4
Aspiration natural
Valves dohc 4 valves per cylinder, vvtl-i
Bore / Stroke 82.0x85.0
Capacity 1796
Compression Ratio 11.5:1
Ignition Type toyota direct ignition system
Gearbox Details 6 speed manual
Hybrid / Clutchless no
Number of Gears 6
Manual / Automatic manual
12-03-2006, 04:46 AM
#13
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Scion Evolution
Originally Posted by Garage1217
You know about the toyota runx 180 rsi don't ya..? I am soooo waiting for it in the usa... Here are it's engine specs... basically a hot rod yaris with a 6 speed...
Engine Layout transverse inline 4
Cylinders 4
Aspiration natural
Valves dohc 4 valves per cylinder, vvtl-i
Bore / Stroke 82.0x85.0
Capacity 1796
Compression Ratio 11.5:1
Ignition Type toyota direct ignition system
Gearbox Details 6 speed manual
Hybrid / Clutchless no
Number of Gears 6
Manual / Automatic manual
Engine Layout transverse inline 4
Cylinders 4
Aspiration natural
Valves dohc 4 valves per cylinder, vvtl-i
Bore / Stroke 82.0x85.0
Capacity 1796
Compression Ratio 11.5:1
Ignition Type toyota direct ignition system
Gearbox Details 6 speed manual
Hybrid / Clutchless no
Number of Gears 6
Manual / Automatic manual
12-03-2006, 04:54 AM
#15
I am trying like sin to find it, but I have seen spy photos of a runx 2 door hatch turbocharged and awd made to contend with lancers and sti's.. actually walk all over them. Cannot find the pics to save my life...
12-03-2006, 05:00 AM
#16
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A true Toyota rally contender for the people? I thought we'd see a twin-turbo Camry wagon before anything as sensible as an EVO/WRX fighter came out of Toyota...
Shows what faith I have in Toyota's motorsport dedication haha.
Shows what faith I have in Toyota's motorsport dedication haha.
12-03-2006, 05:32 AM
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12-03-2006, 05:36 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by ADRdesignCo