itzjere

Hey killer,

Forgot that the 2AZ's were in camry's! But the platform that they were placed in clearly not for modding! I'm only somewhat familiar with the mods for the tC, but from what I've seen, I haven't seen anything near what the B and K series motors have.

I know what you mean that the whole Honda and Toyota arguement goes on and on. Both company produce very reliable, respectable and affordable cars. Some people love em, some people hate them. In the end, it's your car and as long as you love what you drive, that's all that matters. To each his own.

killerxromances

Finally someone on here with some common sense and can look past the whole honda vs. toyota conspiracy!

Yeah, how the 2az was set up in the camry wasn't ideal, but few performance parts did come out for the 2az camry. B and K series are the most popular for honda, it would take years for the 2az to come close to them. Aftermarket is so huge its not even funny, especially with Spoon. Even the D series have a lot of stuff out.

Cya

itzjere

Yah, I'm pretty sure the motor will need some more years before aftermarket parts really start to kick in. What other car is the 2AZ in besides the tC and camry? If it's in other cars that are a bit more performance orientated, I can see parts coming out quicker, otherwise if the tC is the only car, parts might be a bit lacking seeing as California is the only 'real' market that these parts will come to. Not to say nobody in midwest or east coast won't buy it, but trust me, I've driven cross country several times in my Scion and into Canada (I'm from Toronto, here right now actually with my xA) and there is nowhere near the volume of Scions as there is in California.

Haha, Spoon is a pretty good company. I'm not too sure how much you know about aftermarket parts for both the Scions and other car companies, but if you love Spoon, there are so many more companies out there that will make you sell your left arm and first born child for.haha

Biznox

Anyone care to post some slalom, skidpad and other relevant data so we can compare these two cars side-by-side. It's my understanding they are pretty closely matched in acceleration and handling, but maybe I'm wrong.

That type of information would add a lot more relevance to this discussion if someone knows where to get it ...

SilverRSXJezus

Wait..coupe? Do you mean like a sports compact or something?


If I had the money I'd gladly fork over the 65k for a C6 z06, M3, etc.

killerxromances

I believe the 4cyl solora also has the 2az, i could be wrong. Yeah, Spoon is just one of the compaines i absolutely adore. I know someone with a hatch and a Spoon K series (fully built) that is sick. Redline is 9,600 and he has 265whp @ 7,200. Sounds like you have to rev it forever to get to that, but that thing revs extremely, extremely fast. Of course he has other things done to it as well but yeah. Great thing about honda is, jdm products. Need i say more?

aceturnedjoker: 06' Si redlines at 8,000, not 7,000. The Si and tC is not the same car, if you believe that then you really don't know too much about the Si. Study up.

silverrsxjesus: Yeah, anyone who claims Si to just be a coupe smokes too much of something.. lol Its a sports compact, being he already said 7krpm redline i believe hes a newbie.

Biznox: tC has no where near the handling of any Si, accleration close on 06? Thats a huge no. I've seen modified and stock tC's at at autocross, they handle extremely poorly due to the fact its slugging 3,000lbs+ with driver. A few i've seen loose it because they think it handles better than what it does. Sure, you can make it handle great but we are comparing stock anyway. Plus mod for mod, as i stated earlier the tC has no chance compared to the Si.

Cya

itzjere

In stock form, the Si will definitely outhandle and accelerate faster than the tC. Given that the tC has short gears so it may seem that it's accelerating very quickly, it's still accelerating slower because the tC as killer has stated, the car is over 3000lb in curb weight.

It's a bit late and I'm lazy in looking everything up, but I'm sure if you also compare the gear ratio along with the FD, you'll notice that with the longer gears in a Si and JDM FD, it will go all the way through to 8k nicely and pull out some nice tq and hp, esp 3rd gear. I say this because I drive a type-s and both the type-s and new si have a very similar transmission and gearbox, given that I don't have 6th gear TSX or LSD.

The tC is considered a sport compact car, but it is far from sport compact standards is track numbers.

itzjere

Those are pretty impressive numbers from the Spoon hatch. Is it NA or FI? Right now, I'm pushing about 210whp and can rev to 8600 safely with Hondata. I agree with you on Honda JDM parts. They are indeed a god-send.

I think acetrunedjoker was saying that the Si makes 197hp @ 7k but not saying it's the redline. Doesn't make sense for the k20 motor to peak out at 7k because my car pulls all the way to redline and can probably do more, but who knows, haven't seeen a dyno graph.

Yes, all our cars are sport compact, not coupes. I guess those terms get mixed up because people assume 2 doors = coupe.

aireck

and this is just Honda and Toyota.... don't even get started with Nissan...lol

good points guys!!

itzjere

Yah, seriously. However, my information is really limited to only imports. Ask me about domestics and I'm pretty clueless about the cars in terms of how they perform.

jbae1221

i love my tc don't get me wrong, but right now I think the Si has the tc, but then again honda has been in the sport compact for a long time with the si, no?? the tc just came out, so I'd give it another year and I bet that the tc will be just as good as the Si, if not better just so that toyota can compete with honda. If you look at the numbers, the only reason honda came back with the si is because of the tc, they lost a lot of ground to toyota, toyota #2 honda #4.

itzjere

Hahah, sorry, no offence, but it will take longer than just a year for the tC to be comparable to the Si. The motor is very behind compared to the K-Series

killerxromances

itzhere- The spoon hatch is n/a. My old gs-r i built n/a that produced 231whp @ 7,100 and redlined at 8,500rpm. Its definintely different driving a car that redlines around 6,300.

Jbae1221: Honda has been in the sport compact crowd with the civic, crx, del sol, and so on. They are no strangers to sport compact and performance. Another year? In terms of whats available for the 2az you need to add an s on the end of years. lol.

Cya

itzjere

Nice! Got any pictures of your GSR? How come you don't drive it anymore? 6300 redline is killer.

killerxromances

It was totalled about two or so years ago, i can try to find some on this computer. i know i have some on my computer but i have to swap harddrives because the one in it now is fried. but i'll see if i can't find anything.

6,300 redline is okay, when i first started going to tracks (autox, road courses) with the box i sometimes would forget my redline isn't 8,500. But, i've grown used to it.

Cya

itzjere

Yah, for me, it's still taking some time.. haha, i came back home and been driving my scion for... 4 days? i sometimes hit limitter.. i think i've done it.. twice?

you autox w/ the box and all? what kinda setup do you have?

killerxromances

Yeah, i autox the box a lot, it does quite well. i've won in my class all but two so far, and i've beat several cars in the next class up.

So far i have:
df210 springs
trd shocks
hotchkis strut
jic exhaust
dc header
aem cai

I also have 1.5degree camber rear and .5 degree camber front.
Actually handles very well with this, i was surprised. this spring im going to swap shocks again because these are fine, but i want better. new head, pitsons, light weight crank, greddy e-manage ulti, will be redoing the exhaust possibly and coilovers and rims.

Cya

itzjere

Cool setup. No offence, but I just don't understand sometimes when people do engine work to the xA/xB. The motor just isn't designed for it. Of course, your welcome to do whatever you want with your own money, but it just seems like if your gonna put money into internal work, should choose a motor that has better output. One of the main reasons I went from my xA to the Type-S. Mod for mod, the k20 motor just responds better, making it a better bang for buck.

Ltrain

perfectly said

killerxromances

Well when it comes to light weight cars, it doesn't matter so much as for numbers. a 130whp xb with the right gearing would be just as fast as a stock gsr, if not a little faster. The 1nz might not have great whp numbers yet with mods, but then again theres not that much out for the 1nz, most people go custom, and most shops screw up tuning from what i hear when they tune a 1nz. Which is part in why you hear of 1nz motors blown with turbos, atleast from who i've talked to anyway. When more market comes out, there will be more possibilities. I've read a lot of articals of the 1.3l bB putting out very good numbers, 160-190whp numbers. If a 1.3l can pull that with a built motor, the 1.5l should be able to pull good numbers.

Cya