The SI will be under $20,000
01-04-2006, 08:28 PM
#101
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I hate to stir things up here, but I bought some magazines last night and one of them had a head-to-head comparison of the TRD S/C tC vs the Civic Si.
And the Civic was actually faster.
I think it was this month's SPEED magazine, I'll have to double-check.
And the Civic was actually faster.
I think it was this month's SPEED magazine, I'll have to double-check.
01-04-2006, 08:35 PM
#102
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Originally Posted by Skunk
I hate to stir things up here, but I bought some magazines last night and one of them had a head-to-head comparison of the TRD S/C tC vs the Civic Si.
And the Civic was actually faster.
I think it was this month's SPEED magazine, I'll have to double-check.
And the Civic was actually faster.
I think it was this month's SPEED magazine, I'll have to double-check.
Supposidly two magizines did 1/4 runs (one may be the one that you bought) and both claimed Si victory. I believe one claimed tC s/c 1/4 run 15.1 and Si 14.9 or 15.0. I don't know, i rarely ever buy magizines unless theres something really crazy that interests me...Or something about Scions.
Personally don't know if thats true or not, but three magizines (so i hear) did similar testing. I know from test drive the new Si is definitely a night and day difference between older Si's and the tC.
01-04-2006, 08:35 PM
#103
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Surprise, I'm back. Just been watching this thread, but been busy during this holiday. Figure I'd chime in since I have some time inbetween Initial D episodes 
Skunk -- In was aspect was the Civic faster? Although the Civic is higher in HP, it lacks TQ, but is also lighter than the tC. Also, the gearing of the Si is a lot better than the tC, no doubt about that.
Killer -- Got a dyno of your GSR? Sounds like you built an amazing machine. I hope to dyno my car when I get back. All this talk about our cars makes me wanna drive my RSX, but I'm 3500miles away from it now. At least I still have my xA here.
Skunk -- In was aspect was the Civic faster? Although the Civic is higher in HP, it lacks TQ, but is also lighter than the tC. Also, the gearing of the Si is a lot better than the tC, no doubt about that.
Killer -- Got a dyno of your GSR? Sounds like you built an amazing machine. I hope to dyno my car when I get back. All this talk about our cars makes me wanna drive my RSX, but I'm 3500miles away from it now. At least I still have my xA here.
01-04-2006, 08:39 PM
#104
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Originally Posted by itzjere
Surprise, I'm back. Just been watching this thread, but been busy during this holiday. Figure I'd chime in since I have some time inbetween Initial D episodes
Skunk -- In was aspect was the Civic faster? Although the Civic is higher in HP, it lacks TQ, but is also lighter than the tC. Also, the gearing of the Si is a lot better than the tC, no doubt about that.
Killer -- Got a dyno of your GSR? Sounds like you built an amazing machine. I hope to dyno my car when I get back. All this talk about our cars makes me wanna drive my RSX, but I'm 3500miles away from it now. At least I still have my xA here.
Skunk -- In was aspect was the Civic faster? Although the Civic is higher in HP, it lacks TQ, but is also lighter than the tC. Also, the gearing of the Si is a lot better than the tC, no doubt about that.
Killer -- Got a dyno of your GSR? Sounds like you built an amazing machine. I hope to dyno my car when I get back. All this talk about our cars makes me wanna drive my RSX, but I'm 3500miles away from it now. At least I still have my xA here.
01-04-2006, 08:39 PM
#105
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Originally Posted by killerxromances
Supposidly two magizines did 1/4 runs (one may be the one that you bought) and both claimed Si victory. I believe one claimed tC s/c 1/4 run 15.1 and Si 14.9 or 15.0.
01-04-2006, 08:44 PM
#106
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Originally Posted by killerxromances
I had all that information on my fried hard drive on my computer that i'm currently having issues with yet again. (motherboard isn't recognizing compacity of new hard drive, and something else is off...go figure) If i can find something on here i'll definitely post it, i just remember 231whp @ 7,100rpm, redline was 8,600rpm. Power curve really didn't take notice untill roughly 4,900-5,000rpm and shot up from there. 1/4 with close ratio (custom) five speed was low 13's. Before gearing i was running mid-high 13's with small traction problem in 1st.
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=327121
It's a bit long, but it's SO informative. This is what I find ScionLife lacks. Knowledge like this.
01-04-2006, 08:47 PM
#107
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Originally Posted by itzjere
Originally Posted by killerxromances
Supposidly two magizines did 1/4 runs (one may be the one that you bought) and both claimed Si victory. I believe one claimed tC s/c 1/4 run 15.1 and Si 14.9 or 15.0.
If you had a full 2.25'' piping, 4-2-1 header and intake you will probably be pulling with a manual around 155-160whp. S/c alone dynos around 190whp, power to weight and take in a few other things.. An average time would be around 15.0 i would guess.
01-04-2006, 08:53 PM
#108
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OutCrnU from NVS dyno'd his tC at 211HQ/184TQ. I know he has WeaponR intake and headers.. not sure if he has exhaust or not. Last I talked to him, he said he was gonna tune with eManage as it's obviously better than the flash, but since he works at Toyota, I know he has access to equipment that allows him to alter his air/fuel and timing I believe which is probably why he's putting out higher numbers. He's also gutted and caged.
Last time I went to the track, I 1/4 14.1.. What's your track time like killer?
Last time I went to the track, I 1/4 14.1.. What's your track time like killer?
01-04-2006, 09:07 PM
#109
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Originally Posted by itzjere
OutCrnU from NVS dyno'd his tC at 211HQ/184TQ. I know he has WeaponR intake and headers.. not sure if he has exhaust or not. Last I talked to him, he said he was gonna tune with eManage as it's obviously better than the flash, but since he works at Toyota, I know he has access to equipment that allows him to alter his air/fuel and timing I believe which is probably why he's putting out higher numbers. He's also gutted and caged.
Last time I went to the track, I 1/4 14.1.. What's your track time like killer?
Last time I went to the track, I 1/4 14.1.. What's your track time like killer?
But with the box i haven't really gone to the 1/4 mile that much, i autocross though. With autox my wins are 6 out of 8 (total time) this past summer-fall. I've beat several cars out of my class as well. Mostly in the next class above mine.
As for 1/4, i've been three times. Maybe four, its been a while for that. Best time i've come up with is 16.4 @ 83mph. I have an automatic and i believe thats the fastest n/a time still. I have an auto because the manual at the time was two month wait and i really didn't care to wait that long. (this was back summer of 04' right when the 05's started to appear) With my autox record, i'm fairly statisfied with the automatic. Its pretty sluggish on the bottom end but picks up fairly well after 3,200rpm give or take. Most of my power is top end now due to 4-1 header, i/e. This year i plan to do some more work. I may be going with the ZPI turbo depending on cost and results. If not, i'll be hitting up the zpi head, possibly 11:1 pistons, e-manage ulti and possibly redoing my exhaust again.
01-04-2006, 09:13 PM
#110
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Ohh, alrite. I thought you had a GSR because you said you built one (maybe with a friend?) and seem'd to know a lot about the car.
My friend wants to put a ZPI turbo on his tC and is auto as well. I left my car with him since I'm on holiday and I know he'd take good car of it. He drives it pretty often since he loves stick and recently, he found a used type-s and was gonna trade in his tC for it, but dunno what happened to that idea.
Good luck with your build for the xB. eManage ulti is your best management at the time I think.
Did you get a change to go through that link?
My friend wants to put a ZPI turbo on his tC and is auto as well. I left my car with him since I'm on holiday and I know he'd take good car of it. He drives it pretty often since he loves stick and recently, he found a used type-s and was gonna trade in his tC for it, but dunno what happened to that idea.
Good luck with your build for the xB. eManage ulti is your best management at the time I think.
Did you get a change to go through that link?
01-04-2006, 09:17 PM
#111
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Originally Posted by itzjere
Ohh, alrite. I thought you had a GSR because you said you built one (maybe with a friend?) and seem'd to know a lot about the car.
My friend wants to put a ZPI turbo on his tC and is auto as well. I left my car with him since I'm on holiday and I know he'd take good car of it. He drives it pretty often since he loves stick and recently, he found a used type-s and was gonna trade in his tC for it, but dunno what happened to that idea.
Good luck with your build for the xB. eManage ulti is your best management at the time I think.
Did you get a change to go through that link?
My friend wants to put a ZPI turbo on his tC and is auto as well. I left my car with him since I'm on holiday and I know he'd take good car of it. He drives it pretty often since he loves stick and recently, he found a used type-s and was gonna trade in his tC for it, but dunno what happened to that idea.
Good luck with your build for the xB. eManage ulti is your best management at the time I think.
Did you get a change to go through that link?
01-04-2006, 10:08 PM
#113
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Originally Posted by itzjere
Damn, that is absolutely crazy. Glad to hear you came out of it okay from the sounds of your story.
01-04-2006, 10:34 PM
#114
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Well, I'm glad to hear it was only a leg injury. I'm sure the memory thing might have been shock from the whole situation? Dunno, never been in an accident myself so I can't really say. How come you chose an xB coming from a GSR?
01-04-2006, 10:47 PM
#115
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Originally Posted by killerxromances
Originally Posted by DelayedTurbo
Originally Posted by killerxromances
Spare me the dealership speach. Yeah, its redesigned and yes i agree, they look great in person. Better than the previous model anyway. But to say its not like the other civics is just an excuse to jack up your prices. Its a K20, very good motor and finally the civic sees that with a six speed. However, the K20 isn't some glorious motor thats totally brand new and theres nothing like it. The RSX-S has the K series as well, you price your Civic above the RSX good luck trying to sell it. And yes, the $19,990 is supposed to be the pricing of the new Si regardless of what you claim. I used Cali as an example, theres a % mark up on all civics currently. Your way of thinking does not sell you cars, it makes you a jerk thinking you can take advantage of something thats there. Which, usually thats the way you have to do to make business happen but when it comes to something like a Civic, its the wrong way to think. The new Si is not worth $25,000 base, $19,990 is a great price tag and it could go up to $20,500 and still be worth it, but beyond that your entering a new class of cars.Cya
...Honestly, I hate honda's I personally think they're unreliable pieces of crap, but thats cause I've seen all the recalls. People forget that ford honors the most recalls over any other car manufacturer. So please don't think I'm a honda lover...hehe...by all means, I think they suck. But this new SI might give the Civic a better name finally, and with that better name comes a higher cost. The Si has always given the civic a good name when it comes to performaning, hell even the regular civics have had a decent "name" when it comes to tuning ever since people started buying crx's, del sols and civic hatchs and swapping motors. The new Si doesn't completely blow every other civic away, its just redesigned with a better platform. Period.Honda released the Si, in their plans for $19,990. On their website, its $19,990. I've read in a artical right before the release early this month that their would be a fairly large % mark up. If you believe that the Si is worth $25,000+ than you having been working on cars for too long. For about $5,000 you can have a Sti, for $2,000 less you can have a rsx-s, for about $2,500 more you can get an Evo8. And when it comes to $25,000 for a car, another $5,000 isn't that much and you get a true sports car. Civic Si is very nice, indeed. But not worth that kind of money, if the % mark up is final pricing as you so hopelessly claim honda is going to loose sales, Si will sell just as much as the previous model.
And for the record, people don't just buy cars because they like them. They buy a car they like and what they feel best bang for the buck. $25,000 Civic Si is hardly best performance car for the buck. $20,000 is much more in its price range.
Cya
Fact: Money is what makes a car.
MSRP
Scion tC = $16,740
Civic LX = $16,860
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.n...6SITC_B;060100
vs.
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.n...HOCX_LC;060100
If u must compare something "stock vs. stock" use a better comparison^
Second, if you must compare the two (tC vs. Si) then it must be on a even level playing field otherwise its just irrelevant.
An Si is basically a modded Civic with a different motor + some extras... To compare a tC to the Si its only fair to compare it to a TRD fully modded version, otherwise the true comparison for a "fully stock car" is between the tC & DX, LX, or even the more expensive EX.
Now on the topic of an Si under $20,000, until you've completely bought a car on your own you truely have NO IDEA.
I DARE YOU TO TRY AND GET AN SI RIGHT NOW UNDER $20,000 OUT THE DOOR.
01-04-2006, 10:50 PM
#116
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Originally Posted by R2D2
Now on the topic of an Si under $20,000, until you've completely bought a car on your own you truely have NO IDEA.
I DARE YOU TO TRY AND GET AN SI RIGHT NOW UNDER $20,000 OUT THE DOOR.
I DARE YOU TO TRY AND GET AN SI RIGHT NOW UNDER $20,000 OUT THE DOOR.
01-04-2006, 10:54 PM
#117
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Originally Posted by Munch
Originally Posted by R2D2
Now on the topic of an Si under $20,000, until you've completely bought a car on your own you truely have NO IDEA.
I DARE YOU TO TRY AND GET AN SI RIGHT NOW UNDER $20,000 OUT THE DOOR.
I DARE YOU TO TRY AND GET AN SI RIGHT NOW UNDER $20,000 OUT THE DOOR.
01-04-2006, 11:24 PM
#118
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R2D2 -- I agree with you that it will be very hard to get an Si under $20k OTD, but I don't think we're really talked much about this in the thread. If you are saying that the tC is a better VALUE, then yes, I very much agree so. I would definitely choose a tC for value, but from a performance point a view, stock for stock, the new Si outperforms the tC. Your "stock for stock" comparison is based on cost of the vehicle, but our "stock for stock" view is based on a performance view as it seems like there is always a tC vs Civic Si/RSX war in my area of town.
Aside from the cost of the vehicle, I think we've mostly been discussing the vehicles from a performance point of view, not so much of the cost.
I'd also like to know why you say "Money is what makes a car". I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to get your point a view.
Aside from the cost of the vehicle, I think we've mostly been discussing the vehicles from a performance point of view, not so much of the cost.
I'd also like to know why you say "Money is what makes a car". I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to get your point a view.
01-04-2006, 11:47 PM
#119
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"Money is what makes a car" ~ meaning ~ With money, almost anything is possible.
From a perfomance point of view, if your going to compare the two, cost is the primary factor because with money you can make your car fly if you truely wanted.
So to say "aside from cost", is simply not a relevant justification.
Simply put ~ you'd have to pay more for a Si, therefore you'd better get more (which equates to slightly more performance as a stock ride).
However, if you spent the same amount of money just to purchase the Si on a tC you'd have a faster car than the Si.
From a perfomance point of view, if your going to compare the two, cost is the primary factor because with money you can make your car fly if you truely wanted.
So to say "aside from cost", is simply not a relevant justification.
Simply put ~ you'd have to pay more for a Si, therefore you'd better get more (which equates to slightly more performance as a stock ride).
However, if you spent the same amount of money just to purchase the Si on a tC you'd have a faster car than the Si.
01-04-2006, 11:53 PM
#120
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I agree with you that money does certainly set a basepoint for all vehicles. So to level the playing field, what are your thoughts of a SC tC vs stock Si? Since Munch says you can get a Si for a little over $20k OTD, the cost of a SC'd tC and Si are almost the same would you agree?
When you said spent the same amount of money on purchasing an Si, would would you be adding to the tC to make it faster than an Si? I difference would be approx $4k?
I see you also drive a tC. I checked your profile and didn't list any mods. Do you have any?
Once again, not arguing. Just wanna see your point of view as well. We all drive Scions here and I'm sure everyone loves what they drive. Just want to see what everyone's background is on their car.
When you said spent the same amount of money on purchasing an Si, would would you be adding to the tC to make it faster than an Si? I difference would be approx $4k?
I see you also drive a tC. I checked your profile and didn't list any mods. Do you have any?
Once again, not arguing. Just wanna see your point of view as well. We all drive Scions here and I'm sure everyone loves what they drive. Just want to see what everyone's background is on their car.