The SI will be under $20,000
01-05-2006, 04:42 AM
#141
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Hey R2D2. I'm not too familiar with dyno numbers, but with I/RH/E, how much HP/TQ does the tC put out? I'm a bit skeptical seeing as how a S/C tC still doesn't time faster than a stock Si. Of course 1/4 is only one way to measure the ability of a car, but it's just one perspective to look at things. I know you didn't say anything about F/I, but seeing as F/I is the best bolt-on you can add to a car, it seem'd like a reasonable choice for comparison.
A guy in our club (Team NVS) puts out 211HP/184TQ with his supercharger along w/ intake and header. I know his SC is also tuned to the extent of A/F and timing as he works for Toyota and has access to modifying the settings on the ECU. Now I know most people who are S/C are throwing down around 190HP/??TQ from stock baseline, I'm curious how my HP/TQ I/RH/E will add from the dyno baseline of 145HP. I doubt I/RH/E will make up 45HP. Even my K-series doesn't do that for me at a full tune.
I agree with you that the new Si is like an upgraded ex with new styling and a new motor, but this new motor makes a LOT of difference. Compared to the EP3's with had the K20A3, the K20Z1 motor is Honda's most advance motor currently.
A guy in our club (Team NVS) puts out 211HP/184TQ with his supercharger along w/ intake and header. I know his SC is also tuned to the extent of A/F and timing as he works for Toyota and has access to modifying the settings on the ECU. Now I know most people who are S/C are throwing down around 190HP/??TQ from stock baseline, I'm curious how my HP/TQ I/RH/E will add from the dyno baseline of 145HP. I doubt I/RH/E will make up 45HP. Even my K-series doesn't do that for me at a full tune.
I agree with you that the new Si is like an upgraded ex with new styling and a new motor, but this new motor makes a LOT of difference. Compared to the EP3's with had the K20A3, the K20Z1 motor is Honda's most advance motor currently.
01-05-2006, 08:07 AM
#142
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Originally Posted by R2D2
Originally Posted by killerxromances
Originally Posted by DelayedTurbo
Originally Posted by killerxromances
Spare me the dealership speach. Yeah, its redesigned and yes i agree, they look great in person. Better than the previous model anyway. But to say its not like the other civics is just an excuse to jack up your prices. Its a K20, very good motor and finally the civic sees that with a six speed. However, the K20 isn't some glorious motor thats totally brand new and theres nothing like it. The RSX-S has the K series as well, you price your Civic above the RSX good luck trying to sell it. And yes, the $19,990 is supposed to be the pricing of the new Si regardless of what you claim. I used Cali as an example, theres a % mark up on all civics currently. Your way of thinking does not sell you cars, it makes you a jerk thinking you can take advantage of something thats there. Which, usually thats the way you have to do to make business happen but when it comes to something like a Civic, its the wrong way to think. The new Si is not worth $25,000 base, $19,990 is a great price tag and it could go up to $20,500 and still be worth it, but beyond that your entering a new class of cars.Cya
...Honestly, I hate honda's I personally think they're unreliable pieces of crap, but thats cause I've seen all the recalls. People forget that ford honors the most recalls over any other car manufacturer. So please don't think I'm a honda lover...hehe...by all means, I think they suck. But this new SI might give the Civic a better name finally, and with that better name comes a higher cost. The Si has always given the civic a good name when it comes to performaning, hell even the regular civics have had a decent "name" when it comes to tuning ever since people started buying crx's, del sols and civic hatchs and swapping motors. The new Si doesn't completely blow every other civic away, its just redesigned with a better platform. Period.Honda released the Si, in their plans for $19,990. On their website, its $19,990. I've read in a artical right before the release early this month that their would be a fairly large % mark up. If you believe that the Si is worth $25,000+ than you having been working on cars for too long. For about $5,000 you can have a Sti, for $2,000 less you can have a rsx-s, for about $2,500 more you can get an Evo8. And when it comes to $25,000 for a car, another $5,000 isn't that much and you get a true sports car. Civic Si is very nice, indeed. But not worth that kind of money, if the % mark up is final pricing as you so hopelessly claim honda is going to loose sales, Si will sell just as much as the previous model.
And for the record, people don't just buy cars because they like them. They buy a car they like and what they feel best bang for the buck. $25,000 Civic Si is hardly best performance car for the buck. $20,000 is much more in its price range.
Cya
Fact: Money is what makes a car.
MSRP
Scion tC = $16,740
Civic LX = $16,860
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.n...6SITC_B;060100
vs.
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.n...HOCX_LC;060100
If u must compare something "stock vs. stock" use a better comparison^
Second, if you must compare the two (tC vs. Si) then it must be on a even level playing field otherwise its just irrelevant.
An Si is basically a modded Civic with a different motor + some extras... To compare a tC to the Si its only fair to compare it to a TRD fully modded version, otherwise the true comparison for a "fully stock car" is between the tC & DX, LX, or even the more expensive EX.
Now on the topic of an Si under $20,000, until you've completely bought a car on your own you truely have NO IDEA.
I DARE YOU TO TRY AND GET AN SI RIGHT NOW UNDER $20,000 OUT THE DOOR.
So, there you go. My friend bought a Si for under $20k, without you even having to dare him.
And i might add, i wasn't the only one "comparing" the tC to the Si.
Fact: Stock doesn't equal trim levels. Ex in example is a trim level. If you buy a base Si, and do nothing to it you are driving a stock Si. Trim levels is a different thing, you work at a dealership don't you? You should know that.
01-05-2006, 08:11 AM
#143
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itzjere - I bought an xb to do something different than what i'm used to. Plus i'm a fan of light weight cars. It was a toss up between Xb or mini cooper-s. Mini insurance was going to be higher than i wanted with payments so i went with the box. Which i'm glad i did because since i've had it i've travel'd more than i used to and the space has come in handy.
Rarely does a four door weigh so little.
Rarely does a four door weigh so little.
01-05-2006, 01:23 PM
#144
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Originally Posted by R2D2
"Money is what makes a car" ~ meaning ~ With money, almost anything is possible.
From a perfomance point of view, if your going to compare the two, cost is the primary factor because with money you can make your car fly if you truely wanted.
So to say "aside from cost", is simply not a relevant justification.
Simply put ~ you'd have to pay more for a Si, therefore you'd better get more (which equates to slightly more performance as a stock ride).
However, if you spent the same amount of money just to purchase the Si on a tC you'd have a faster car than the Si.
From a perfomance point of view, if your going to compare the two, cost is the primary factor because with money you can make your car fly if you truely wanted.
So to say "aside from cost", is simply not a relevant justification.
Simply put ~ you'd have to pay more for a Si, therefore you'd better get more (which equates to slightly more performance as a stock ride).
However, if you spent the same amount of money just to purchase the Si on a tC you'd have a faster car than the Si.
I don't know how many times it's been said, comparing stock to modded is retarded and irrelavent. I can make a used 240sx faster than a Viper and easily save $50-60 thousand dollars. By the same token i could take a new Mazda MX-5 and for the price of a mid to high trim level 350z, destroy it in all aspects of performance. That's all retarded logic though for several reasons:
A) You don't always get a warranty with any aftermarket product you buy. Your factory warranty obviously doesn't cover aftermarket parts, or any damage done to the car because of them. If you put a turbo on your car and it blows the engine, you're hosed. After you replace the motor, *then* who paid more for their car?
B) You can't finance mods. That's all well and good that you can put $3-5K in mods in your car and be slightly faster. But it's coming straight out of your pocket if you want them. Unless you use a credit card, in which case you're a freaking moron.
C) Contrary to what a lot of people believe, there is usually a trade-off when you modify your car. Stiffer suspension usually worsens ride quality and lowers the car making it easier to scrape, power mods often hurt fuel economy and/or make the car louder, forced induction requires higher octane gas, a lot of body kits are easier to damage than stock, light mods (underbody/LEDs/replacement head or taillights/clear corners/smoked lights) as well as dark tint can often attract attention of the law, etc., etc., etc.
D) If you aren't a mechanic you also get the added bonus of labor fees.
E) Aftermarket mods are not factored into trade-in/car sale value 99.999% of the time. You dump $10K into your car, don't expect to get it back. Assuming you have the mechanical inclination to remove your mods and resell them, you'll still take a big loss.
All of these and more are reasons why comparing stock to modded is ridiculous,and why it may be better to buy the better performing car.
01-05-2006, 01:32 PM
#145
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Originally Posted by Skunk
Originally Posted by R2D2
"Money is what makes a car" ~ meaning ~ With money, almost anything is possible.
From a perfomance point of view, if your going to compare the two, cost is the primary factor because with money you can make your car fly if you truely wanted.
So to say "aside from cost", is simply not a relevant justification.
Simply put ~ you'd have to pay more for a Si, therefore you'd better get more (which equates to slightly more performance as a stock ride).
However, if you spent the same amount of money just to purchase the Si on a tC you'd have a faster car than the Si.
From a perfomance point of view, if your going to compare the two, cost is the primary factor because with money you can make your car fly if you truely wanted.
So to say "aside from cost", is simply not a relevant justification.
Simply put ~ you'd have to pay more for a Si, therefore you'd better get more (which equates to slightly more performance as a stock ride).
However, if you spent the same amount of money just to purchase the Si on a tC you'd have a faster car than the Si.
I don't know how many times it's been said, comparing stock to modded is retarded and irrelavent. I can make a used 240sx faster than a Viper and easily save $50-60 thousand dollars. By the same token i could take a new Mazda MX-5 and for the price of a mid to high trim level 350z, destroy it in all aspects of performance. That's all retarded logic though for several reasons:
A) You don't always get a warranty with any aftermarket product you buy. Your factory warranty obviously doesn't cover aftermarket parts, or any damage done to the car because of them. If you put a turbo on your car and it blows the engine, you're hosed. After you replace the motor, *then* who paid more for their car?
B) You can't finance mods. That's all well and good that you can put $3-5K in mods in your car and be slightly faster. But it's coming straight out of your pocket if you want them. Unless you use a credit card, in which case you're a freaking moron.
C) Contrary to what a lot of people believe, there is usually a trade-off when you modify your car. Stiffer suspension usually worsens ride quality and lowers the car making it easier to scrape, power mods often hurt fuel economy and/or make the car louder, forced induction requires higher octane gas, a lot of body kits are easier to damage than stock, light mods (underbody/LEDs/replacement head or taillights/clear corners/smoked lights) as well as dark tint can often attract attention of the law, etc., etc., etc.
D) If you aren't a mechanic you also get the added bonus of labor fees.
E) Aftermarket mods are not factored into trade-in/car sale value 99.999% of the time. You dump $10K into your car, don't expect to get it back. Assuming you have the mechanical inclination to remove your mods and resell them, you'll still take a big loss.
All of these and more are reasons why comparing stock to modded is ridiculous,and why it may be better to buy the better performing car.
01-05-2006, 04:44 PM
#146
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Originally Posted by killerxromances
Originally Posted by R2D2
Originally Posted by killerxromances
Originally Posted by DelayedTurbo
Originally Posted by killerxromances
Spare me the dealership speach. Yeah, its redesigned and yes i agree, they look great in person. Better than the previous model anyway. But to say its not like the other civics is just an excuse to jack up your prices. Its a K20, very good motor and finally the civic sees that with a six speed. However, the K20 isn't some glorious motor thats totally brand new and theres nothing like it. The RSX-S has the K series as well, you price your Civic above the RSX good luck trying to sell it. And yes, the $19,990 is supposed to be the pricing of the new Si regardless of what you claim. I used Cali as an example, theres a % mark up on all civics currently. Your way of thinking does not sell you cars, it makes you a jerk thinking you can take advantage of something thats there. Which, usually thats the way you have to do to make business happen but when it comes to something like a Civic, its the wrong way to think. The new Si is not worth $25,000 base, $19,990 is a great price tag and it could go up to $20,500 and still be worth it, but beyond that your entering a new class of cars.
Cya
...Honestly, I hate honda's I personally think they're unreliable pieces of crap, but thats cause I've seen all the recalls. People forget that ford honors the most recalls over any other car manufacturer. So please don't think I'm a honda lover...hehe...by all means, I think they suck. But this new SI might give the Civic a better name finally, and with that better name comes a higher cost. The Si has always given the civic a good name when it comes to performaning, hell even the regular civics have had a decent "name" when it comes to tuning ever since people started buying crx's, del sols and civic hatchs and swapping motors. The new Si doesn't completely blow every other civic away, its just redesigned with a better platform. Period.Honda released the Si, in their plans for $19,990. On their website, its $19,990. I've read in a artical right before the release early this month that their would be a fairly large % mark up. If you believe that the Si is worth $25,000+ than you having been working on cars for too long. For about $5,000 you can have a Sti, for $2,000 less you can have a rsx-s, for about $2,500 more you can get an Evo8. And when it comes to $25,000 for a car, another $5,000 isn't that much and you get a true sports car. Civic Si is very nice, indeed. But not worth that kind of money, if the % mark up is final pricing as you so hopelessly claim honda is going to loose sales, Si will sell just as much as the previous model.
And for the record, people don't just buy cars because they like them. They buy a car they like and what they feel best bang for the buck. $25,000 Civic Si is hardly best performance car for the buck. $20,000 is much more in its price range.
Cya
Fact: Money is what makes a car.
MSRP
Scion tC = $16,740
Civic LX = $16,860
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.n...6SITC_B;060100
vs.
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.n...HOCX_LC;060100
If u must compare something "stock vs. stock" use a better comparison^
Second, if you must compare the two (tC vs. Si) then it must be on a even level playing field otherwise its just irrelevant.
An Si is basically a modded Civic with a different motor + some extras... To compare a tC to the Si its only fair to compare it to a TRD fully modded version, otherwise the true comparison for a "fully stock car" is between the tC & DX, LX, or even the more expensive EX.
Now on the topic of an Si under $20,000, until you've completely bought a car on your own you truely have NO IDEA.
I DARE YOU TO TRY AND GET AN SI RIGHT NOW UNDER $20,000 OUT THE DOOR.
So, there you go. My friend bought a Si for under $20k, without you even having to dare him.
And i might add, i wasn't the only one "comparing" the tC to the Si.
Fact: Stock doesn't equal trim levels. Ex in example is a trim level. If you buy a base Si, and do nothing to it you are driving a stock Si. Trim levels is a different thing, you work at a dealership don't you? You should know that.
Talk is cheap.
killerxromancesObviously any logic I present to your face means nothing to you cause you can always bust "he said she said pricing" without any evidence to prove yourself. Until you've got something to back u up, simply stop.
And skunk, since you don't own a Scion you have no idea what ~pure pricing~ is all about. Its the reason why the car comes the way it does. The factory didn't add some "performance" parts because not everybody would utilize them ~ which equals savings to the average comsumer.
And if you READ my posts, than you'd see i did suggest for "TRD" aftermarket parts which doesn't void warranty. Unlike your concept of dumping $3-5K of F/I into a car @ the same time making it unreliable but fast. Therefore, like I stated earlier: "if you spent the same amount of money just to purchase the Si on a tC you'd have a faster car than the Si."
01-05-2006, 05:33 PM
#147
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The title of the thread: "The SI will be under $20,000" seems perfectly understandable from an industry standard pricing format: MSRP.
Reading far back to the release of the tC, titles such as "The tC will be priced under $17K" read exactly the same way.
I have no stake in your argument one way or another, however, MSRP is the pricing basis when listing new model pricing. Destination is typical fixed by Model and Manufacturer, however,given that tax rates (both in % and flat rate states) vary greatly by state, as well as doc, title, and whatever 'garbage' fees the dealer try to tag comparing an OTD price is a bit of a slippery slope.
No hostility at all intended. Just looking for a standard basis.
Reading far back to the release of the tC, titles such as "The tC will be priced under $17K" read exactly the same way.
I have no stake in your argument one way or another, however, MSRP is the pricing basis when listing new model pricing. Destination is typical fixed by Model and Manufacturer, however,given that tax rates (both in % and flat rate states) vary greatly by state, as well as doc, title, and whatever 'garbage' fees the dealer try to tag comparing an OTD price is a bit of a slippery slope.
No hostility at all intended. Just looking for a standard basis.
01-05-2006, 05:40 PM
#148
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Heh, just for fun I ran what OTD pricing @ $19,999 would be in Vegas: $17,865 (before $550 Dest, tax @ 7.75%, $200 in doc/title/etc).
Now I would love to have gotten that price!!
Under $20K including only destination would be much more reasonable at $19,449.
Now I would love to have gotten that price!!
Under $20K including only destination would be much more reasonable at $19,449.
01-05-2006, 06:55 PM
#149
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Hey Janizary, I see another former tC owner, now Si owner has chimed in! This is really taking me by surprise! How come you traded in your tC for an Si. I though even though the Si is a better car from performance view, people wouldn't have traded in a tC for it, since tC is such a great value. Now of course, I got rid of my xA to go to the RSX which is a huge step, but some reason, tC to Si doesn't seem as big of a step for me. How come you changed things up?
01-05-2006, 07:07 PM
#150
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R2D2...
Talk is cheap, normally i would agree but i have no reason to lie. And what do you expect me to do exactly? Scan his papers proving to you that it was settled for $19,600. I mean seriously,
. No matter what i would do you would have something to "disprove" just so you would be right. Why can't you just accept the fact if you can present yourself to a salesman, and know how to talk to them you can get it under $20,000. Too much of a man to admit you are wrong?
We are talking about a $900 difference from what you said lowest price of $20,500 and his $19,600. When you write a straight check, they will tend to work with you more because they know they are getting the full amount right then and there. $900 is not an incredible difference nor would a $1,000 be. He came out ahead, accept it or deal with it but don't say i'm lying just because you can't face reality.
Moral: You can purchase an Si for under $20,000. Sure, it may be rare but it can be done and my friend has proven it.
Talk is cheap, normally i would agree but i have no reason to lie. And what do you expect me to do exactly? Scan his papers proving to you that it was settled for $19,600. I mean seriously,
. No matter what i would do you would have something to "disprove" just so you would be right. Why can't you just accept the fact if you can present yourself to a salesman, and know how to talk to them you can get it under $20,000. Too much of a man to admit you are wrong?We are talking about a $900 difference from what you said lowest price of $20,500 and his $19,600. When you write a straight check, they will tend to work with you more because they know they are getting the full amount right then and there. $900 is not an incredible difference nor would a $1,000 be. He came out ahead, accept it or deal with it but don't say i'm lying just because you can't face reality.
Moral: You can purchase an Si for under $20,000. Sure, it may be rare but it can be done and my friend has proven it.
01-05-2006, 07:09 PM
#151
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Originally Posted by Janizary
Heh, just for fun I ran what OTD pricing @ $19,999 would be in Vegas: $17,865 (before $550 Dest, tax @ 7.75%, $200 in doc/title/etc).
Now I would love to have gotten that price!!
Under $20K including only destination would be much more reasonable at $19,449.
Now I would love to have gotten that price!!
Under $20K including only destination would be much more reasonable at $19,449.
01-05-2006, 07:14 PM
#152
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R2D2 -- I have to ask. Are you a Toyota fanboy? I don't understand how you can be in such disbelief that someone has gotten a new car OTD below or even at MSRP. Now, I'm no car salesmen, but I've read everywhere, on different makes and models of cars, people getting cars below MSRP or at "invoice". If killer's saying that you work at a dealership is correct, I don't see how you can't see past that. Can't you appreciate someone getting a good deal and feeling like they didn't get ripped off at the stealership for once? How much will it take for killer to prove to you that you can get an Si OTD under $20k? Send you his invoice or something? Even that, if he is $500 over, I wouldn't even argue over this technicality of still not being under $20k, that's pretty close already.
I agree that warranty is an acceptable reason for choice of mods, but then that means you'll be buying and installing everything at the stealership, and I promise you, a supercharger add-on will be over $4k when all said and done. I think you need to do a little more research when you say F/I cars are fast but unrealiable. No matter what mod is it, if it is done correctly, and used properly, it will not sacrafice reliablilty. So are you saying F/I cars from factory are not reliable like WRX, STi and Evo? Forget F/I, even a stock vehicle can be unreliable, given it's maker. Even a good company such as Toyota or Honda for example, if you drive you car to the ground and don't maintain it properly, your sacraficing reliability.
And what does Skunk not owning a Scion have anything with him not knowning what pure pricing is. Given that all Scion owners definitely know what it is, even people who have maybe looked into Scion know about it too, as they might have considered purchasing a Scion (a hence came on this board to learn more about the car before buying it) or anything? Your assuming that just cause he doesn't own a Scion, therefore he doesn't know anything about pure pricing.
Are you serious about why pure pricing is the way it is? And possibly why the Scions are so cheap in pricing? That because they have no "performance TRD" parts on there? Any company can offer an aftermarket supercharger or lowering springs does not mean they are cheaping out on the performance to save consumer's money. You realise there is hardly any R&D cost in America for these Scion's since they are all directly shipped from Japan and have slight modifications done to them to bring them into US compliance. Also, Scion's direct market is directed towards a younger market. The cost of the vehicle makes it much more attractive and affordable to all people who wish to drive one.
I agree that warranty is an acceptable reason for choice of mods, but then that means you'll be buying and installing everything at the stealership, and I promise you, a supercharger add-on will be over $4k when all said and done. I think you need to do a little more research when you say F/I cars are fast but unrealiable. No matter what mod is it, if it is done correctly, and used properly, it will not sacrafice reliablilty. So are you saying F/I cars from factory are not reliable like WRX, STi and Evo? Forget F/I, even a stock vehicle can be unreliable, given it's maker. Even a good company such as Toyota or Honda for example, if you drive you car to the ground and don't maintain it properly, your sacraficing reliability.
And what does Skunk not owning a Scion have anything with him not knowning what pure pricing is. Given that all Scion owners definitely know what it is, even people who have maybe looked into Scion know about it too, as they might have considered purchasing a Scion (a hence came on this board to learn more about the car before buying it) or anything? Your assuming that just cause he doesn't own a Scion, therefore he doesn't know anything about pure pricing.
Are you serious about why pure pricing is the way it is? And possibly why the Scions are so cheap in pricing? That because they have no "performance TRD" parts on there? Any company can offer an aftermarket supercharger or lowering springs does not mean they are cheaping out on the performance to save consumer's money. You realise there is hardly any R&D cost in America for these Scion's since they are all directly shipped from Japan and have slight modifications done to them to bring them into US compliance. Also, Scion's direct market is directed towards a younger market. The cost of the vehicle makes it much more attractive and affordable to all people who wish to drive one.
01-05-2006, 07:17 PM
#153
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Originally Posted by R2D2
Originally Posted by Janizary
Heh, just for fun I ran what OTD pricing @ $19,999 would be in Vegas: $17,865 (before $550 Dest, tax @ 7.75%, $200 in doc/title/etc).
Now I would love to have gotten that price!!
Under $20K including only destination would be much more reasonable at $19,449.
Now I would love to have gotten that price!!
Under $20K including only destination would be much more reasonable at $19,449.
01-05-2006, 07:18 PM
#154
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^ Well said itzjere.
I seriously doubt i could make him believe anything i say, it doesn't appear that way anyway. Sort of ridiculous. Too many newbies around here now that talk way, way too much and have no respect at all. Sad.
I seriously doubt i could make him believe anything i say, it doesn't appear that way anyway. Sort of ridiculous. Too many newbies around here now that talk way, way too much and have no respect at all. Sad.
01-05-2006, 07:29 PM
#155
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I agree with you killer that there are a lot of newbies. Now I dunno if I'd go out and calling R2D2 a newbie (I'm not implying anything), but some people just need to be hand-feed things sometimes to just understand and can't believe everything they see if fast and furious.
But seriously R2D2, what's your beef? You come into this thread straight up with negative comments. You seem like a knowledgable guy who knows things about cars, but maybe just need to spend a little more time reading on forums. I'm not calling you out or trying to make an idiot out of you. I'm just trying to show you that some of your information might be a bit mixed up. We're not trying to make enemies here, just trying to take as much as we can from this forum to understand, appreciate and enjoy our Scions that much more. Lets not make this thread into another Toyota vs Honda thread.
If you wanna make this thread as technical in price as you've made it, then lets bring out the other factors when comparing a car, which btw, is not just price. There is the performace aspect which we've talked about a little already, and functionaility. I agree price is a basepoint, but doesn't mean I can go comparing $50k sports car to a $50k luxury car because they are simily a different class. You cannot use money as a pure basepoint. We already know the obvious facts of pricing, so we've moved on to different factors to further see if the Si and tC is a good comparison. One thing is for sure, they are both the same class of vehicle. Just one has better performance than the other.
But seriously R2D2, what's your beef? You come into this thread straight up with negative comments. You seem like a knowledgable guy who knows things about cars, but maybe just need to spend a little more time reading on forums. I'm not calling you out or trying to make an idiot out of you. I'm just trying to show you that some of your information might be a bit mixed up. We're not trying to make enemies here, just trying to take as much as we can from this forum to understand, appreciate and enjoy our Scions that much more. Lets not make this thread into another Toyota vs Honda thread.
If you wanna make this thread as technical in price as you've made it, then lets bring out the other factors when comparing a car, which btw, is not just price. There is the performace aspect which we've talked about a little already, and functionaility. I agree price is a basepoint, but doesn't mean I can go comparing $50k sports car to a $50k luxury car because they are simily a different class. You cannot use money as a pure basepoint. We already know the obvious facts of pricing, so we've moved on to different factors to further see if the Si and tC is a good comparison. One thing is for sure, they are both the same class of vehicle. Just one has better performance than the other.
01-05-2006, 07:49 PM
#156
Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,808
Back to original topic: (lol)
Si is great for the money. They made the right choice by upgrading the k series from the previous model to the k20z. Basically same aftermarket as before, but the ability has changed a little. This Si is already the fastest, but we should see some greater numbers using the stock motor than before. I think within this year we can expect some crazy coverage with it.
Handling has definitely improved from the past model. While other years handled extremely well for its class, this one takes it up a notch. Infact, the new rsx-s recently upgraded the k20 motor which is why its 210hp instead of 200hp. Thats not really new news, but it shows that acura new they had to improve something to keep sales intact. The Si is definitely now in the rsx-s class with performance. I believe the rsx-s may be slightly more comfortable, being its a Acura but performance wise. Very similar in a ton of ways. I for one, wish they kept the k20a in the rsx and upgraded the cam or did a few other minor things. Its kind of weird how both rsx and si share a k20z, while different series its still under same engine codes as far as that goes.
Styling is always a matter of opinion. Some hate it, some love it. I personally love it. Aerodyamics have improved significantly and i think its a more bold design. Its a performance look and stance while the others, imo, was a little more so held back in terms of how they looked. We can expect acura to step it up again in the near future, i hear they have started coming up with redesign phases and from what i hear, its pretty sick. But thats just rumors, no one hold me on that.
Si is great for the money. They made the right choice by upgrading the k series from the previous model to the k20z. Basically same aftermarket as before, but the ability has changed a little. This Si is already the fastest, but we should see some greater numbers using the stock motor than before. I think within this year we can expect some crazy coverage with it.
Handling has definitely improved from the past model. While other years handled extremely well for its class, this one takes it up a notch. Infact, the new rsx-s recently upgraded the k20 motor which is why its 210hp instead of 200hp. Thats not really new news, but it shows that acura new they had to improve something to keep sales intact. The Si is definitely now in the rsx-s class with performance. I believe the rsx-s may be slightly more comfortable, being its a Acura but performance wise. Very similar in a ton of ways. I for one, wish they kept the k20a in the rsx and upgraded the cam or did a few other minor things. Its kind of weird how both rsx and si share a k20z, while different series its still under same engine codes as far as that goes.
Styling is always a matter of opinion. Some hate it, some love it. I personally love it. Aerodyamics have improved significantly and i think its a more bold design. Its a performance look and stance while the others, imo, was a little more so held back in terms of how they looked. We can expect acura to step it up again in the near future, i hear they have started coming up with redesign phases and from what i hear, its pretty sick. But thats just rumors, no one hold me on that.
01-05-2006, 07:49 PM
#157
Senior Member
Scion Society
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sanger, CA
Posts: 1,253
Just give us the name and adress of the dealership. I'm sure I can find some people in my area willing to spend 40 bucks in gas to go save 5 grand on buying a car. I garuntee you he won't be selling cars below msrp for long
Civic SI = 19,990 + 550 Destination charge = not below 20k.
People are sheep and don't like fine print.
Civic SI = 19,990 + 550 Destination charge = not below 20k.
People are sheep and don't like fine print.
01-05-2006, 07:53 PM
#158
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SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,808
Originally Posted by TimmyT
Just give us the name and adress of the dealership. I'm sure I can find some people in my area willing to spend 40 bucks in gas to go save 5 grand on buying a car. I garuntee you he won't be selling cars below msrp for long
Civic SI = 19,990 + 550 Destination charge = not below 20k.
People are sheep and don't like fine print.
Civic SI = 19,990 + 550 Destination charge = not below 20k.
People are sheep and don't like fine print.
If you go by strict numbers, yes, it will be above $20k. But thats not what we were talking about, we were talking about getting an Si for under $20k and my friend did therfore its possible.
01-05-2006, 08:00 PM
#159
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Team N.V.S.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by killerxromances
Handling has definitely improved from the past model. While other years handled extremely well for its class, this one takes it up a notch. Infact, the new rsx-s recently upgraded the k20 motor which is why its 210hp instead of 200hp. Thats not really new news, but it shows that acura new they had to improve something to keep sales intact. The Si is definitely now in the rsx-s class with performance. I believe the rsx-s may be slightly more comfortable, being its a Acura but performance wise. Very similar in a ton of ways. I for one, wish they kept the k20a in the rsx and upgraded the cam or did a few other minor things. Its kind of weird how both rsx and si share a k20z, while different series its still under same engine codes as far as that goes.
that pushes 220bhp stock. The compression is lower, along with all the JDM goodies like the cams, FD, LSD, and IM.I think the civic will be a pretty big hit. Many companies that already design K-series parts for the EP3, RSX and TSX can now further their market to the new Si, which I think will only need minor adjustments for fitment sake. I know Hondata, JR, Comptech and Greddy have/are building parts for the new Si already.
01-05-2006, 08:01 PM
#160
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 985
WooHo...Team Honda simmer down now~
itzjere: stop bringing up this F/I issue. I've told u time and time again. Adding F/I on a N/A car is going to sacrifice reliability. Sure people do and have daily drive them, but reliability & durability is sacrificed any which way u look at it (I've been there..done that.).
killerxromances: a 19 year old boy telling me I'm a newbie is ridiculous. U don't know where I come from nor do you respect anybody that disagrees with your "opinion". I've owned Hondas and done my share of mods on them so don't assume i haven't any knowledge. When it comes to finances, i believe ur in no place to speak when mommy & daddy bought ur cars for u. I don't know where this hatred u have for tC comes from, but incase you don't know we both own Scions. People used to laugh when I told them I owned a Scion because they assumed it was an xB, and I used to agree withem that the xB is a nasty looking car... However I've grown to likem for their defying the standard image of a "car". Even if I don't agree with xB styling, I accept that their part of the family.. as you should with the tC....
I find it extremely tuff to believe someone escaping MSRP on a car that just came out and is limited in supply. I'm no car salesman, however i do have insight to some of its system. I accept the point that it is possible to get an Si under $20K, but for most people its going to be tuff to nearly impossible.
I think we can all come to terms that if given the same amount of "spending money" on both the Si and tC they'd be pretty evenly matched speed wise (I'm speaking in terms of N/A without F/I incase u were thinking that itzjere).
itzjere: stop bringing up this F/I issue. I've told u time and time again. Adding F/I on a N/A car is going to sacrifice reliability. Sure people do and have daily drive them, but reliability & durability is sacrificed any which way u look at it (I've been there..done that.).
killerxromances: a 19 year old boy telling me I'm a newbie is ridiculous. U don't know where I come from nor do you respect anybody that disagrees with your "opinion". I've owned Hondas and done my share of mods on them so don't assume i haven't any knowledge. When it comes to finances, i believe ur in no place to speak when mommy & daddy bought ur cars for u. I don't know where this hatred u have for tC comes from, but incase you don't know we both own Scions. People used to laugh when I told them I owned a Scion because they assumed it was an xB, and I used to agree withem that the xB is a nasty looking car... However I've grown to likem for their defying the standard image of a "car". Even if I don't agree with xB styling, I accept that their part of the family.. as you should with the tC....
I find it extremely tuff to believe someone escaping MSRP on a car that just came out and is limited in supply. I'm no car salesman, however i do have insight to some of its system. I accept the point that it is possible to get an Si under $20K, but for most people its going to be tuff to nearly impossible.
I think we can all come to terms that if given the same amount of "spending money" on both the Si and tC they'd be pretty evenly matched speed wise (I'm speaking in terms of N/A without F/I incase u were thinking that itzjere).