djct_watt

Thanks Thomas, this is better than deleting posts and issuing ban warnings.

djct_watt

Regarding gear, it's also rendered useless if you don't know how to fit the proper size and what to do in the event of a crash.

I've seen newbs and squids high side and throw their arms outwards to cushion the fall...

With gear, a swift tuck and roll will allow the padded areas to take the impact and will significantly decrease the odds of broken bones/dislocations/torn ligaments.

Tomas

Yeah, I didn't want to poke anyone with a sharp stick, but at the same time it really was a thread hijack, so I took the easy way out - I moved this discussion into its very own thread. :D

Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. --Robert Anson Heinlein

In all of my martial arts training while I was in the military, the one thing that has served me the best in the 40+ following years was learning how to fall.

Learning how to do it with no, or at least minimal, damage is something I suspect all riders should take the time to learn...

Big_hungry

we have learned that everyone can not have their own opinion! plain and simple thats what started all of this pretty much. One guy stated an opinion and he was told it was wrong. So I guess one needs to be sure to post on scionlife before one try's to think for their self and form their own opinion from now on?

that's pretty much this whole thread summed up right there!

snowromance

when someone's opinion is factually incorrect, it is no longer a valid opinion free for sharing.

this is not the same as being opinionated as to "what soft drink is the best". we're talking protection to our bodies under possible life/death or permanent disfigurement circumstances. if not for yourself, do it for the people you love and care about. and if you just dont care about anyone or anything but yourself, than just do it out of individual strive for intelligence in your life.

Big_hungry

i always thought that ones opinion meant just that. I never knew an opinion could be incorrect.

Tomas

Well, Chip, you are entitled to that opinion, and in fact all the folks in this current thread are entitled to their opinions, and no one has attempted in any way to NOT allow them to have and state differing opinions.

Now if you are referring to this thread being split from the thread about Jeff's accident, I did that because the very first post in this thread was not about Jeff or his accident, but was another person carrying on about something else entirely.

The posts that responded to that off-topic post were also moved here so the discussion could be continued in it's own separate, dedicated topic.

My other easy choice would have been to delete the off topic posts and possibly even warn the person who took that other thread off topic. I saw no reason to do that (I generally only warn when I have no other choice).

If you are griping about other folks having other opinions than the original off-topic poster, that's just the way things go. I allow anyone to have their own opinion, and it is ScionLife's goal to do the same. We just don't like topic hijacks. (Check the rules...)

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." --Daniel Patrick Moynihan

djct_watt

Yup, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but if you study philosophy at all, there are ways to basically prove a fallicy.... Meaning an incorrect idea, thought, opinion, or logic.

IE:
Fact:
if it's raining, it must be cloudy.

It would be impossible to deduce that:
If it's cloudy, it therefore must be raining.

If you made that jump of a conclusion, you'd be wrong. You have every right to think so, but you'd still be wrong.


And the FACT of the matter, if you do any research at all (yet an MSF handbook), you'll find that gear does in fact save lives. Any other opinion (and you have a right to your opinion) is flat out wrong. And you'd be pretty stubborn to think otherwise given the sheer volume of statistical and scientific evidence out there.

You have a right not to wear hear, and a right not to be criticized for it, but don't kid yourself into thinking it's safe, as safe, nearly as safe or safer than wearing full gear. You'd be just as ignorant as a smoker who thinks smoking is healthy.... And I smoke.... And I know it's very unhealthy!

CDogbert

The problem everyone had with said opinion was the way it was posted, and about the subject matter it was dealing with. You don't just go into a thread about someone's motorcycle injuries (that were caused by a lack of protective gear) and state that you'll never wear protective gear when you ride. That is, at best, callous and unnecessary.

And much like Tomas said, one is free to state their opinion as much as they like, just as I'm allowed to state how much of a moron they are for said opinion.

djct_watt

Other examples of wrong/bad opinions and facts:

A stock Scion tC can do the 1/4 mi in 2 seconds.

A stock Scion tC (or any Scion) can hit 500 MPH

All Scions come with 20 seats and 40000 cup holders.

Running red lights is safer than waiting for the green

Gothbox

ok, thats why I said PM me to stay back on topic, and there WAS and IS talk about what gear you "should be" wear in Jeff's topic.

now also, I never stated that a person should do what I do. just stating what *I* do.
SO, i am not going to recommend it to anyone etc.

I also never said that I don't wear ridding gear b/c I am "too cool" to, or "I am so tough that I don't need to" etc, just stating that I will not. Leather jackets are very "cool" in the "Harley" community, I am guessing you have no idea how important a leather jacket/vest is with the club colors on it are do you?

so if a full helmet prevents whiplash/neck injuries, then why do race car, etc drivers that wear full face helmet also are required to wear the HANS device?

and yes I "don't care about anyone or anything but myself" No one cares about me, so whats the big deal?
why do you think I drive a xB and do what *I* want to to it, b/c I don't care what others think.

no amount of "MSF handbook" crap will change the way *I* feel. I am not saying and have never said that it was the best way or the only way, just my way.

"riding gear" COULD save some wear and tear on a persons body, I for one could care less.
Also what you are saying is that if I was to get in a fight with a guy that had a baseball bat that I should put on my riding gear and I will walk away with no broken bones? that amazing!

I completely agree that alot of injuries can be far less brutal if you know "how" to crash.

I never said I was more "hardcore" then anyone or anything of that nature. just saying *I* feel that when it is your time to go, no amount of "safety gear" will protect you.

and all this "opinion" crap why don't you go tell all the diff churches in your town that what their opinion is on religion is, is "wrong" or they "fail", because it is not right and see what kind of reaction you get. but you are not, why? because it is their opinion, and you have yours. end of story.

Big_hungry

yea yea



that man just stated an opinion! someone better tell him if it's correct or if he failed again lol.

CDogbert

Okay.

He failed again.

What do I win?

djct_watt

Religion cannot be proved or disproved. Therefore any "opinion" on it is faith based and fully justified.

Race car drivers? Are you kidding me? That's proof that wearing a helmet is dangerous? Did you ever notice that they're still wearing helmets. Secondly, in a race car, your body is attached to the car, so in an impact if the car stops moving, so does your body, but your head will continue to move at the same speed..... That's why whiplash is so prevalent in automobile accidents.

EPIC FAIL!

I was young once, and thought that I could never be wrong, but I learned better. Yes, you have a right to not wear gear. But your reasoning and the arguments you bring up are almost all factually incorrect.

djct_watt

And if someone hit you in the head with a baseball bat, the impact is VERY different as the impact forces occur at different rates and are focused only at single point, as opposed to bring gradually dispersed.

But if you were hit in the head by a baseball bat with no helmet, you would likely be dead, or have serious brain damage (notice all MLB near a bat wear helmets) .

With a helmet, you will live. More than likely, you'd walk away.

CDogbert

Strong in the strawman arguement rebuttal, djct_watt is. Mmmmm.

Gothbox

well you said that wearing a full helmet prevents whiplash. I am just making my point that it does not. Whip lash can occur no matter what type of helmet you have on.

here is a question for you, if "riding gear" is SO awesome and safe, then why do motorcycle cops not wear full leathers and full helmets? I am not saying that EVERY one of them do not, but everyone I have ever seen wears long pants, a short sleeve shirt and a half helmet.

I can do a search on google real quick and pull up a crap load of pic if you want me to.

I never said that if you got hit in the head with a bat that it would kill you if you had a helmet on, I said if you were wearing everything else and you got hit with a bat in the legs/arms that it would not prevent you from getting broken bones.

dannygenio

ah....... why did you even start this thread from the first place? You want attention? I don't care if you die or not but starting this thread to fight against other? that;s LAME. I see you are 26, but it's cool some people start late puberty.

Gothbox

I did not start this thread, the all mighty Thomas made it a thread.

Big_hungry

I don't understand why anyone failed.
Just cause one guy said this is what i'll be doing yall jump all over the guy and tell him he failed he's wrong he can't do that. ETC ETC!

What is this a ____ing contest?
are we ruled by Hitler or something?
Hell protective gear is a good thing to wear yea but it's not always going to save your life or keep you from getting hurt. Yea it increases the saftey factor just like seat belts air bags etc etc the list goes on and on and on and on. so who really cares how one chooses to ride a bike is their choice! plain and simple. Just like it's your choice to vote!

oh wait i just thought for myself I guess i fail!