killerxromances

I was just using that as an example.. That hatch should be in mid 14's with that motor. Even stock should be in the 14's with the b16 swap, with your mods a tC doesn't come to those times.

killerxromances

Here's the facts:

tC gear ratio's:
1st: 3.538:1
2nd: 2.045:1
3rd: 1.333:1
4th: 0.972:1
5th: 0.775:1
reverse: 3.583:1
Final: 4.235:1

99' Civic Si gear ratio's:
1st: 3.230
2nd: 2.105
3rd: 1.458
4th: 1.107
5th: 0.875
reverse: 3.000
Final: 4.266*

*4.266 final drive is a debatable spec. If you look in a Helms manual for the 99 Si , you will see that 4.266 is the final drive spec. Eddy Lin has found that to be false - he physically took a 99 Si tranny apart
and counted the final drive teeth which calculated to a 4.40 final drive ratio. So it is debatable, but these numbers i based above are factory spec only for the sake of argument.

As you can see 1st and Reverse are the only gears the tC has that are geared more aggressively.

__________________

killerxromances

rhythmnsmoke; my friend with the del sol usually has a trap speed of 104-109mph depending on how well of a run he..well runs. But the last i've heard of was 12.9 @ 107mph.

cmndrjamesbond

2redgerm6

i will post info on the civic hatch with b16 that i beat. when i talk to him again please stay tuned.

rhythmnsmoke

What people fail to remember, is that what happens on a Track, and what happens on the street are two different things.

killerxromances

Thats pretty obvious, but where did that come?

rhythmnsmoke

Everytime someone says "i beat such and such" you raise a BS flag...especially if it's Honda related, and say "No way you could have, because my friend goes X amount of time in the 1/4th mile".

killerxromances

Not true, but when someone says they raced a hatchback with a b16a swap it raises question. Am i completely disproving his race? No, i'm sure it did happen but given what a stock 99' Si runs, given the hatchback weighs about 300-400lbs lighter than the Si, it makes me question it. Especially with his mods.

I know the tC can beat hondas, i have never said it couldn't. The problem is, people tend to say "Oh i beat a rsx-s with i/e with my i/h/e/short shifter". Yeah, when people say things like that i'm going to raise a bs flag. Its not the fact the tC can't beat a honda, its what people claim to have beat. And its not just honda's, i've raised a bs flag on some guy thinking he can take on a modded Sti with his tC putting down 260whp, i also talk about it when people say they beat ANY car, ANY MANUFACTURE, that obviously should be in question and/or bs. And i'm one of few that actually question some of the claims because most people that respond to these kinds of threads are the same people, and they all tend to believe their tC is unbeatable because of torque, 2.4l, and the "pricey" Scion.

rhythmnsmoke

If it seems "To good to be true", I don't have a problem with questioning the race either. But when it's an experience that I've had as well, then I just say good kill. Like I said, if the driver screws up, then you can claim the race, regardless of whether or not the car is really faster than yours. Because unfortunately, the driver makes mistakes. **** happens, and you loose.

killerxromances

^
For once i actually agree with you, which is has been my point for some time now about your ep3 race(s). Sure, sometimes your n/a tC (not talking about your car currently) could have been faster than the ep3, but i know for a fact stock for stock and mod for mod, except boost, the ep3 is equal to the tC. I've noticed that you say things like this when its not about your races, but when we talk about your races you kind of ignore that and put me down for questioning your stuff.

And also notice before you even brought this up i said "It makes no sense that you would win, and less sense that you would "kill" him unless either hes not the best driver" which refers to mis-shifting, or shifting too early. When you quoted me before on that same paragraph, you " " yet you agree'd with me. Thats the kind of stuff the annoys me on here. People put me down on here, and then if i say something you agree with or proves something they say wrong, they find something else to complain about just to make themselves look right and me wrong.

rhythmnsmoke

It happens.... But sometimes your post come off, like the tC isn't capable of beating anything on the road. That's the problem I have with your post. Everything seems to be...."The tC can't do that, or the 2az isn't capable of this, or capable of that".

killerxromances

It's probably because i get annoyed with people on here so often that i feel i need to skip the niceness and just get straight to my points. Its always hard to fully realize what people mean on the net. I know the tC has potential, 2az i strongly dislike and i dislike the weight factor on the tC, but i know it has potential. And I do know it can beat many cars, given situations and limits. But that's the thing, a lot of people don't realize the place of a tC and thats when you get forums about tC vs STi's, Evo's, I've seen a tC thread about how to out handle a type R, beating GTO's, beating RSX-s with minimal mods, new Si's downplaying what they are able to do just to up the tC's image, things like that ____ me off. Because its comparing the tC to cars that are out of the league of the tC, sure you can modify the tC enough to out handle or out perform. But that can be done with any car, to me that doesn't prove all that much. I mean sure you can get a strong suspension and spend a good $3,000-$4,000 to out corner a type R, but if the type-R has just minimal mods then its over.

That's what people don't take into effect.

__________________

2redgerm6

i talked to the guy with the si swap last night go figure he lost an engine bearing (maybe something to do with why i "killed" him). but also last night i blew the doors off an evolution with stage 3 turbo upgrade built internals and a 150 shot of nitrous that guy was a putz. i made him look like a chump. true he was standing next to his car in a parking lot, lolol. any who my point is i understand where you coming from throwing the bs flag around but how hard is to believe i beat an si swapped civic with little or no mods?

earlier post of mine:
i havn't been able to race much cause i broke my leg (only 3800 miles on tc) but i beat a acura tl and yes it was the 240 hp one and i launched like an idiot with rediculous wheel spin. my point here is i know i can't beat a tl 98% of but that time i did. whether the guy was a puzzy or not i don't know but i know he followed me around some twisty roads at over 85 mph and took off hard when he saw me do the same so it was a race. ps i beat a zo6 in my corolla hahahaha.

you just never know what someone else is doing. i never said i could beat every swapped hatch on the planet i only spoke of my expereince. and you imediately blast me of there being no way and then nicely say i could possibly be a liar. like i said i don't make stuff up without making a joke in the end. i have some great stories in my little rolla. one time i beat an olds 442, true on the very short straight he was pulling from me like i wasn't moving but then we hit the turns and i passed him cause he couldn't accelerate through the turns as well without losing the back end. then we hit straight then he passed me again very quickly . them we hit another turn and i passed him again then there was a light. i still call that a win but i tell the whole story. i also had a similar experince with an supercharged grand prix. another time i got my ___ handed to me by the supercharge monte carlos. most of the races i won in my rolla were on twisties but i would tell the whole story. i am very honest about my wins. but i did beat this civic and i have stayed with just civic si (90 model) in my rolla. believe me or not, but please don't question my character. btw i have never been on a track in my life so i don't know my trap or 1/4 mile time at all but i am going to remedy this soon.

killerxromances

I never said i didn't believe you, but i do believe you now knowing that he has lost an engine bearing. Plus i now know hes a retard for racing a car that has a issue in the motor department. Can easily do more harm with a few more races. Early 90 Si's were pretty slow, well compared to late 90's to now. The only early-mid 90 Si's that were worth it in my opinion were the Del Sol Si's/Can SiR's. Other than that, yeah.

Now that all the facts are in, its believable. If the motor was in perfect condition, it wouldn't be as believable simply because a hatchback with a b16a is going to be faster than a tc with even i/h/e. How do i know this? I've seen both cars run, i've seen how both cars react to mods, and so on. I wonder why he chose the b16a for a swap. Oh well, glad to see that story is put down to rest.

At least you understand where i'm coming from on the bs flag's, its easy to say "i killed ___ today" on the internet because no one knows if its true or not, so some just say good kill or congrats (not aiming on rythmnsmoke, most people do this without really knowing much about the other car envolved) while others judge the story from personal experience and knowledge, and facts. Which obviously, is what i do.

2redgerm6

when he gets his car up and running again i will try and race him again before he goes turbo (which he plans to do soon). so we will see how that goes. keep an eye out, i'm going for a kill (even if i have to run him off the road lol).

rhythmnsmoke

I judge based on personal experience. And in my personal experience, a Hatch with B16a would have a hard time keeping up with a tC with i/h/e. In COMPLETELY STOCK form, we have raced a 90's model 4 door Teggy with a JDM B16a with I/H/E and we pulled on him. When we were COMPLETELY Stock.

killerxromances

Did he mis-shift or anything, thats hard to believe with a tc stock. Also, a 4dr teggy is heavier than a hatch so its hard to compare the two in terms of how well one would do. A b16a hatch with i/h/e will be faster than a same set up 4dr tegra, early 90's two door then its closer to the same weight. Which year 4dr? Newer ones heavier than older ones.

killerxromances

Also, which B16a was it? Because not all B16's have same out put, and although its Jdm that doesn't make it faster or better than the u.s B16a.

B16A 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '89-'91 Civic SiR JDM 160@7800 111@7300

B16A 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '90-'91 Integra XSi/RSi (DA) JDM 158@7600 112@7000 10.2:1

B16A 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '92-'93 Integra XSi/RSi (DA) JDM 158@7600 112@7000 10.2:1

B16A 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '90-'91 Civic SiR JDM 160@7600 111@5200

B16A 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '92-'95 Civic EUR 170@7800 116@7300

B16A 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '92-'95 Civic SiR/SiR II JDM 168@7800 116@7300 10.4:1

B16A 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '92-'95 Civic SiR II EUR 168@7800 116@7300 10.4:1

B16A 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '89-'92 Civic SiR HB (EF) JDM 158@7600 112@7000 10.2:1

B16A1 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '89-'92 Civic 1.6i/VTi (EE/ED) EURO 158@7600 111@7000 10.2:1

B16A1 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '90-'91 Civic SiR (EF) JDM 160@7600 111@7000 10.4:1

B16A2 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '99-'00 Civic Si (EM) USDM 160@7600 111@7000 10.2:1

B16A2 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '96-'00 Civic VTi (EK) EUR 168@7800 126@7300 10.4:1

B16A3 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '93-'94 del Sol VTEC USDM 160@7600 111@7000

B16A4 1.6L 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1595 '96-'00 Civic SiR II (EK) JDM 168@7800 116@7300 10.4:1

As you can see by what i listed, not all B16a's are equal, and of course not all mod the same. I listed full specs and one car it was in per motor to see if you can identify which B16 it was. When you talk about Honda motors, theres a huge difference between one and the other although they are the same engine codes.

rhythmnsmoke

No, he didn't mis-shift. Infact, Misti was driving, and she wasn't paying attention, because he kinda screwed up when he was honking. So, she took off late. By the way, this was from a dig. When she finally took off, he was already to our front bumper. But the tC started pulling on it, like I said we were Completely stock at the time. He will tell you himself, that he lost to us when we were stock. He has the square shaped Teggy. Also, I have raced the round headlight style - two door Teggy at the local crappy track. He had I/H/E and we had I believe just an exhaust at the time. We were neck and neck until I missed a gear, and took the victory. I knew I had him, but oh well, **** happens.