tC vs ___
06-22-2006, 03:10 AM
#141
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Correction, you keep dodging me. Proof was never given, i have never seen a dyno jet n/a tC above 160whp with just i/h/e. You say i'm wrong, yet if its that simple show me a dyno jet reading then. Show me ANY dyno run that proves your 180whp-200whp n/a point. You won't do it because you cant, doesn't exist.
Show me any base line of an auto doing 130's and a manual doing 140's. Show me anything other then "oh well i saw another dyno but no sheet of this" and "this sheet reads 15% lower than another dyno", thats just making excuses to prove your point. You say i keep dodging the truth? You have yet to prove anything.
You keep saying how i dont prove anything to you, well guess what. Any search and you will find your answers, i don't need to prove anything because i'm not the one making huge claims. You say you have evidence, prove it. Show me a dyno of a n/a tc any where NEAR 200whp. Show me a i/h/e tC in the 180's. Hell, show me one in the 170's.
I know what OTHERS have posted, i know what I've seen personally, i don't need to defend the tC like you do you. I don't need to win respect with tC owners because i don't own one, you do. You have a lot to own up to and you have yet to live up to anything.
Show it or stfu, thats it. If you think i/h/e yeilds 180whp, then it should be easy to find an axle back or any non full exhaust set up in the 170's shouldn't it? If it was true it would be, tons of people have more mods and no one has seen it. Your coming out of no where with this and yeah i've been in the dark for a while, but the tC didn't jump from 150-160's to 180's with the same mods. And Timmy is on your side because hes ALWAYS on your side, any thread thats pulled up with us three posting hes always there with you. Why? We dislike each other apparently, and we disagree always which is why hes going to disagree with me. Not to mention, "I dont drive a tC so i don't know what i'm talking about" crap. Please, knowledge and common sense about motors, cars, and gains doesn't stop where what you drive.
Like i said, actually own up to what your saying or shut up because this is getting quite ridiculous and you are talking down to me on every post yet you have shown nothing. Only claims based on a under 150whp tC. Good for you.
Show me any base line of an auto doing 130's and a manual doing 140's. Show me anything other then "oh well i saw another dyno but no sheet of this" and "this sheet reads 15% lower than another dyno", thats just making excuses to prove your point. You say i keep dodging the truth? You have yet to prove anything.
You keep saying how i dont prove anything to you, well guess what. Any search and you will find your answers, i don't need to prove anything because i'm not the one making huge claims. You say you have evidence, prove it. Show me a dyno of a n/a tc any where NEAR 200whp. Show me a i/h/e tC in the 180's. Hell, show me one in the 170's.
I know what OTHERS have posted, i know what I've seen personally, i don't need to defend the tC like you do you. I don't need to win respect with tC owners because i don't own one, you do. You have a lot to own up to and you have yet to live up to anything.
Show it or stfu, thats it. If you think i/h/e yeilds 180whp, then it should be easy to find an axle back or any non full exhaust set up in the 170's shouldn't it? If it was true it would be, tons of people have more mods and no one has seen it. Your coming out of no where with this and yeah i've been in the dark for a while, but the tC didn't jump from 150-160's to 180's with the same mods. And Timmy is on your side because hes ALWAYS on your side, any thread thats pulled up with us three posting hes always there with you. Why? We dislike each other apparently, and we disagree always which is why hes going to disagree with me. Not to mention, "I dont drive a tC so i don't know what i'm talking about" crap. Please, knowledge and common sense about motors, cars, and gains doesn't stop where what you drive.
Like i said, actually own up to what your saying or shut up because this is getting quite ridiculous and you are talking down to me on every post yet you have shown nothing. Only claims based on a under 150whp tC. Good for you.
06-22-2006, 03:13 PM
#142
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Originally Posted by killerxromances
Correction, you keep dodging me. Proof was never given, i have never seen a dyno jet n/a tC above 160whp with just i/h/e. You say i'm wrong, yet if its that simple show me a dyno jet reading then. Show me ANY dyno run that proves your 180whp-200whp n/a point. You won't do it because you cant, doesn't exist.
Show me any base line of an auto doing 130's and a manual doing 140's. Show me anything other then "oh well i saw another dyno but no sheet of this" and "this sheet reads 15% lower than another dyno", thats just making excuses to prove your point. You say i keep dodging the truth? You have yet to prove anything.
You keep saying how i dont prove anything to you, well guess what. Any search and you will find your answers, i don't need to prove anything because i'm not the one making huge claims. You say you have evidence, prove it. Show me a dyno of a n/a tc any where NEAR 200whp. Show me a i/h/e tC in the 180's. Hell, show me one in the 170's.
I know what OTHERS have posted, i know what I've seen personally, i don't need to defend the tC like you do you. I don't need to win respect with tC owners because i don't own one, you do. You have a lot to own up to and you have yet to live up to anything.
Show it or stfu, thats it. If you think i/h/e yeilds 180whp, then it should be easy to find an axle back or any non full exhaust set up in the 170's shouldn't it? If it was true it would be, tons of people have more mods and no one has seen it. Your coming out of no where with this and yeah i've been in the dark for a while, but the tC didn't jump from 150-160's to 180's with the same mods. And Timmy is on your side because hes ALWAYS on your side, any thread thats pulled up with us three posting hes always there with you. Why? We dislike each other apparently, and we disagree always which is why hes going to disagree with me. Not to mention, "I dont drive a tC so i don't know what i'm talking about" crap. Please, knowledge and common sense about motors, cars, and gains doesn't stop where what you drive.
Like i said, actually own up to what your saying or shut up because this is getting quite ridiculous and you are talking down to me on every post yet you have shown nothing. Only claims based on a under 150whp tC. Good for you.
Show me any base line of an auto doing 130's and a manual doing 140's. Show me anything other then "oh well i saw another dyno but no sheet of this" and "this sheet reads 15% lower than another dyno", thats just making excuses to prove your point. You say i keep dodging the truth? You have yet to prove anything.
You keep saying how i dont prove anything to you, well guess what. Any search and you will find your answers, i don't need to prove anything because i'm not the one making huge claims. You say you have evidence, prove it. Show me a dyno of a n/a tc any where NEAR 200whp. Show me a i/h/e tC in the 180's. Hell, show me one in the 170's.
I know what OTHERS have posted, i know what I've seen personally, i don't need to defend the tC like you do you. I don't need to win respect with tC owners because i don't own one, you do. You have a lot to own up to and you have yet to live up to anything.
Show it or stfu, thats it. If you think i/h/e yeilds 180whp, then it should be easy to find an axle back or any non full exhaust set up in the 170's shouldn't it? If it was true it would be, tons of people have more mods and no one has seen it. Your coming out of no where with this and yeah i've been in the dark for a while, but the tC didn't jump from 150-160's to 180's with the same mods. And Timmy is on your side because hes ALWAYS on your side, any thread thats pulled up with us three posting hes always there with you. Why? We dislike each other apparently, and we disagree always which is why hes going to disagree with me. Not to mention, "I dont drive a tC so i don't know what i'm talking about" crap. Please, knowledge and common sense about motors, cars, and gains doesn't stop where what you drive.
Like i said, actually own up to what your saying or shut up because this is getting quite ridiculous and you are talking down to me on every post yet you have shown nothing. Only claims based on a under 150whp tC. Good for you.
MORE LAME BS of you dodging me. HOW ABOUT THIS, you show me a N/A tC dyno that has the said mods that's under 160+ whp, and I will show you one on a Dyno Dynamics that pulled 170whp with the said mods and a crank pulley.
I have noticed several references to Dyno Dynamics dynos being "lossy". I was wondering what this was based on? Perhaps you are trying to compare it to the over-rated Dyno Jet whose power numbers are consistently high compared to every other dyno on the market? The superb Mustang Dyno with its 50-inch drum usually shows a power "loss" of 10-12% over the DynoJet, as do the Land and Sea models, as do the AutoDyn from Superflow. As far as Dyno Dynamics, I have been told they read about 12% lower then the DynoJet as well (By Paul Fisher of the Dyno Shop who owns both a Dyno Dynamics dyno and a Dyno Jet), but I have also only read that this is consistent with the DynaPak, which cannot have any tyre losses.
Didn't think I would have to actaully get information for someone who seems to think they know everything...
06-22-2006, 03:17 PM
#143
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This one is even better at explaining it.
But wait, the 15% Higher reading on a DJ/DJHP (dyno jet horsepower), according to you, is JUST AN EXCUSE, when it's a KNOW FACT!...
Your only making yourself look even more like a Noob by keep asking me to post the hard evidence. So, do yourself a favor and run off and play with your matchbox now.
PS...no hard feelings, just you are a little mis-informed. don't mean to sound like an a$$. I apologize.
True, rear wheel horsepower is the standard of measuring the power that is actually delivered to the rear wheels. It is honest, true, fair and duplicable. It is the ONLY standard that can be duplicated by the entire industry - regardless of the dyno manufacturer. From my experience and that of many others, when comparing True, rear wheel horsepower to DJHP you must apply a factor. It appears that this is a sliding scale based on horsepower but the best estimate is 1.05 to 1.21 (maybe higher). What this means is that for those of you trying to calculate what your crankshaft horsepower is based on DJHP, and are adding 15%, the most common number I hear, you are actually doubling (at least) the factor. Why? Because DJHP already has a puff number added into their DJHP. Lets say DJHP shows 200 hp and you add 15%, you get 230 hp crankshaft horsepower. In reality DJ has already added in 15 or 20% to their 200 DJHP number. How does this help us.? It does not, and is fact harmful to the many dynamometer test facilities that report only what the dyno actually measured. I can not tell you of the many discussions that we have had as to why the horsepower numbers we recorded lower than that of DJ. For those manufacturers that use DJHP as proof of their claims, can you imagine the shock your customers get when the horsepower number of a vehicle tested on a load bearing dyno do not come close to their claim.
But wait, the 15% Higher reading on a DJ/DJHP (dyno jet horsepower), according to you, is JUST AN EXCUSE, when it's a KNOW FACT!...
Your only making yourself look even more like a Noob by keep asking me to post the hard evidence. So, do yourself a favor and run off and play with your matchbox now.
PS...no hard feelings, just you are a little mis-informed. don't mean to sound like an a$$. I apologize.
06-22-2006, 03:27 PM
#144
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This discussion revolves around chassis dynamometer's and is intended to be informative and thought provoking. There are two types of chassis dynamometers on the market, inertia and loading. An inertia dynamometer (such as DynoJet) does not measure torque, but measures acceleration. A loading dynamometer applies resistance that is measured (using some type of strain gauge.)
The most often heard discussion is that what factor can be applied to rear wheel horsepower to reflect crankshaft horsepower. This is where we need to understand how the rear wheel horsepower number was derived. Since the DynoJet seems to be widely used and numbers quoted are those from a DynoJet, we are going to use them as our inertia dynamometer example.
First it is important to have an understanding of how DynoJet gets their horsepower numbers. Power in mechanical terms is the ability to accomplish a specified amount of work in a given amount of time. By definition, one horsepower is equal to applying a 550 pound force through a distance of 1 foot in one second. In real terms, it would take 1 HP to raise a 550 pound weight up 1 foot in 1 second. So to measure horsepower, we need to know force (in pounds) and velocity (in feet per second). Dynojet's inertial dynamometer measures power according to the terms just described. It measures velocity directly by measuring the time it takes to rotate two heavy steel drums one turn. It measures force at the surface of the drum by indirectly measuring it's acceleration. Acceleration is simply the difference in velocity at the surface of the drums from one revolution to the next. The force applied to the drums is calculated from acceleration using Newton's 2nd law, Force = Mass * Acceleration. Since the mass of the drums is know and acceleration has been measured, Power (horsepower) can now be calculated. Torque is then calculated using the horsepower number: Torque = Horsepower * 5252 / RPM.
Once they have these numbers a series of correction factors are applied, some made public, some hidden as proprietary secrets. The public correction factor is the SAE correction factor. This formula assumes a mechanical efficiency of 85%. The formula used is: Where: CF= 1.18 * (29.22/Bdo) * ((Square Root(To+460)/537)) – 0.18. To = Intake air temperature in degrees F, Bdo = Dry ambient absolute barometric pressure. This correction factor is meant to predict output in varying atmospheric conditions and is a +/- 7%. The proprietary correction factor is supposed to reflect the loss of power from the crankshaft to the rear wheels.
A Loading Dynamometer applies resistance to the dyne's roller(s) , typically using either a water brake or a current eddy brake. In either case, the amount of force is measure using a strain gauge. The measured force is torque which is a real, indisputable measurement of the actual output at the wheel. Horsepower than can be calculated: Hp = Trq * 5252 / RPM.
The most often heard discussion is that what factor can be applied to rear wheel horsepower to reflect crankshaft horsepower. This is where we need to understand how the rear wheel horsepower number was derived. Since the DynoJet seems to be widely used and numbers quoted are those from a DynoJet, we are going to use them as our inertia dynamometer example.
First it is important to have an understanding of how DynoJet gets their horsepower numbers. Power in mechanical terms is the ability to accomplish a specified amount of work in a given amount of time. By definition, one horsepower is equal to applying a 550 pound force through a distance of 1 foot in one second. In real terms, it would take 1 HP to raise a 550 pound weight up 1 foot in 1 second. So to measure horsepower, we need to know force (in pounds) and velocity (in feet per second). Dynojet's inertial dynamometer measures power according to the terms just described. It measures velocity directly by measuring the time it takes to rotate two heavy steel drums one turn. It measures force at the surface of the drum by indirectly measuring it's acceleration. Acceleration is simply the difference in velocity at the surface of the drums from one revolution to the next. The force applied to the drums is calculated from acceleration using Newton's 2nd law, Force = Mass * Acceleration. Since the mass of the drums is know and acceleration has been measured, Power (horsepower) can now be calculated. Torque is then calculated using the horsepower number: Torque = Horsepower * 5252 / RPM.
Once they have these numbers a series of correction factors are applied, some made public, some hidden as proprietary secrets. The public correction factor is the SAE correction factor. This formula assumes a mechanical efficiency of 85%. The formula used is: Where: CF= 1.18 * (29.22/Bdo) * ((Square Root(To+460)/537)) – 0.18. To = Intake air temperature in degrees F, Bdo = Dry ambient absolute barometric pressure. This correction factor is meant to predict output in varying atmospheric conditions and is a +/- 7%. The proprietary correction factor is supposed to reflect the loss of power from the crankshaft to the rear wheels.
A Loading Dynamometer applies resistance to the dyne's roller(s) , typically using either a water brake or a current eddy brake. In either case, the amount of force is measure using a strain gauge. The measured force is torque which is a real, indisputable measurement of the actual output at the wheel. Horsepower than can be calculated: Hp = Trq * 5252 / RPM.
You can read the rest of the long a$$ article here:
http://www.germanmotorcars.com/Dyno_...0inertia_1.htm
06-22-2006, 04:07 PM
#145
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Wow, another interesting observation
Taken from the 350z forum that I'm on. Take note of the Bold part.
Taken from the 350z forum that I'm on. Take note of the Bold part.
As you might know, I dynoed at 399whp on the stock tune w/ cats. I replaced my cats with test pipes about a month ago. Well when Richard did the first dyno pull as is, he made it all the way up to about 450whp, with more rpms to go, and had to let off as he was afraid to harm the engine (to put it lighty). So that means I was sitting a little over 450 for about a month, which translates to about 480+whp on a dynojet. I am thinking I got lucky because I have done a few good runs since I put the test pipes on. Oh, and the 450 was at 11psi, thank god I was still pig rich
06-23-2006, 01:53 AM
#146
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I never denied that dyno dynamics reads less than dyno jet, mustang dynos typically read 15-30% higher than just about any other dyno. Whats your point? Your dodging everything i'm saying by talking about dynos. Show ME, as i have said on every single post now talking to you, with a dyno run with ANY, dyno of a n/a tC reading the numbers you claim.
Seriously, instead of wasting your time with crap we all know, you could invest your time on trying to find a dyno run of a tC to prove your point. Instead you keep talking about dynos rather than runs with a tC. Enough talk, more do.
Seriously, instead of wasting your time with crap we all know, you could invest your time on trying to find a dyno run of a tC to prove your point. Instead you keep talking about dynos rather than runs with a tC. Enough talk, more do.
06-23-2006, 02:07 AM
#147
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Now for some real info.
Dyno sheet: http://www.alphawerks.com/dyno/Scion_TC_web.jpg
Info: "Alpha Werks has done a dyno with an intake, exhaust, header, throttle body combo.. they got 24whp and 19 ft/tq .. Unsure on the intake and exhaust they used.. but you can expect to make around that with any intake/header/exhaust combo...http://www.RacingSolution.com for the parts and PM or email me if you have any questions at all."
Baseline would be: 139.35.. Fairly high baseline dyno, but it happens.
Dyno sheet:
Info: "Stock motor, only mod used was greddy axle back. Blue represents base run, Green represents greddy axle back."
Baseline: 136.84 (ON A DYNO JET)
Dyno sheet: http://www.alphawerks.com/dyno/Scion_TC_web.jpg
Info: "Alpha Werks has done a dyno with an intake, exhaust, header, throttle body combo.. they got 24whp and 19 ft/tq .. Unsure on the intake and exhaust they used.. but you can expect to make around that with any intake/header/exhaust combo...http://www.RacingSolution.com for the parts and PM or email me if you have any questions at all."
Baseline would be: 139.35.. Fairly high baseline dyno, but it happens.
Dyno sheet:
Info: "Stock motor, only mod used was greddy axle back. Blue represents base run, Green represents greddy axle back."
Baseline: 136.84 (ON A DYNO JET)
06-23-2006, 02:12 AM
#148
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Yep, i know nothing. And yep, those dynos can't be right although one was used on your argument of dyno jet.
So lets see, you said base line was in the low-mid 140s right? And you said auto was in the 130s? Lets see what i can pull on the auto.
And unlike you, rythmnsmoke, i am showing a dyno of a i/h/e combo, NOT some exhaust dyno sheet then claiming the rest. And these numbers are still slightly higher than what i've been seeing, but guess what. I choose the HIGHEST numbers i could find just to make even more of a point.
So lets see, you said base line was in the low-mid 140s right? And you said auto was in the 130s? Lets see what i can pull on the auto.
And unlike you, rythmnsmoke, i am showing a dyno of a i/h/e combo, NOT some exhaust dyno sheet then claiming the rest. And these numbers are still slightly higher than what i've been seeing, but guess what. I choose the HIGHEST numbers i could find just to make even more of a point.
06-23-2006, 02:34 AM
#149
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According to you, all three of these tCs must have just had an intake.
Words from srtforums.com/net:
"I was at the last dyno day the RSX club brought togeather and well, Alot of cars didnt show up. off the top of my head only 21 cars went. 3 Scion TC, 1 3rd gen Rx7, 1 s2000, 4 SRT's, and an accord who didn want to dyno. the rest was RSX.. they averaged about 150WHP. 1 RSX got 350WHP and another got 450WHP and that car didnt want to even idle.
i remember the s2000 got 200WHP, the Modded 3rdGen Rx7 only got 175WHP (He was having secondary igintion issues as i recall). all 3 Scion got 150ish WHP. my Srt got 238WHP. another got 310WHP on 75Shot He got 233 WHP without the shot. another guy got 230WHP, and the navy Srt owners dyno'd 250WHP when in reality it should of been 300WHP (He has Dyno'd 300+ before though. just happen that he swap to stage 0 to test out what it feels like). his A/f were Below the 9's all the way till redline."
Read about the tC's.. All three dyno'd in the 150's.
My advice? Stop looking at companies dynos, and start looking at real life dyno's. Companies are going to stretch it and make conditions absolutely perfect to sell their products. Obviously, they want their numbers to be as high as possible, and beyond. Also, stop talking me down but i know your going to come back with some ridiculous post about how your still right and i'm of course wrong, after all i drive a xb and not a tc. How about you do your homework.
Heres another dyno sheet: http://forums.evolutionm.net/attachm...chmentid=54429
Info: Magnaflow exhaust, low 141-143whp
Words from srtforums.com/net:
"I was at the last dyno day the RSX club brought togeather and well, Alot of cars didnt show up. off the top of my head only 21 cars went. 3 Scion TC, 1 3rd gen Rx7, 1 s2000, 4 SRT's, and an accord who didn want to dyno. the rest was RSX.. they averaged about 150WHP. 1 RSX got 350WHP and another got 450WHP and that car didnt want to even idle.
i remember the s2000 got 200WHP, the Modded 3rdGen Rx7 only got 175WHP (He was having secondary igintion issues as i recall). all 3 Scion got 150ish WHP. my Srt got 238WHP. another got 310WHP on 75Shot He got 233 WHP without the shot. another guy got 230WHP, and the navy Srt owners dyno'd 250WHP when in reality it should of been 300WHP (He has Dyno'd 300+ before though. just happen that he swap to stage 0 to test out what it feels like). his A/f were Below the 9's all the way till redline."
Read about the tC's.. All three dyno'd in the 150's.
My advice? Stop looking at companies dynos, and start looking at real life dyno's. Companies are going to stretch it and make conditions absolutely perfect to sell their products. Obviously, they want their numbers to be as high as possible, and beyond. Also, stop talking me down but i know your going to come back with some ridiculous post about how your still right and i'm of course wrong, after all i drive a xb and not a tc.
How about you do your homework.Heres another dyno sheet: http://forums.evolutionm.net/attachm...chmentid=54429
Info: Magnaflow exhaust, low 141-143whp
06-23-2006, 05:01 AM
#150
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i'm not trying to get in the middle of this or anything and this will be my only post on the subject. but i have recently seen (in the past 10 days) someone posted dyno results of 172whp and i believe they posted the dyno sheet as well. this was with intake, header,exhaust, and 3 pulley kit. i looked for it but couldn't find it to post a link. i don't know what kinda dyno it was and i thought it was kinda high myself but it is fresh in my memory. i will continue to look for and will post it if i find it.
06-23-2006, 05:09 AM
#151
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Originally Posted by 2redgerm6
i'm not trying to get in the middle of this or anything and this will be my only post on the subject. but i have recently seen (in the past 10 days) someone posted dyno results of 172whp and i believe they posted the dyno sheet as well. this was with intake, header,exhaust, and 3 pulley kit. i looked for it but couldn't find it to post a link. i don't know what kinda dyno it was and i thought it was kinda high myself but it is fresh in my memory. i will continue to look for and will post it if i find it.
Infact, i keep hoping a friend of mine will show online because his shop has done a port and polish job on this guys tC with i/h/e, crank, performance belts, and i think but not sure unichip. I'd like to get the dyno sheet from him if possible. I don't know what that tC dyno'd at or anything, but i'd like to get the info on it to post on here.
06-23-2006, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by KillertC_com
Well after the success of the Header test we have decided to go ahead and do the intake test as well. First off i want to thank a couple of companies for getting us out their intakes: Injen, F5Air, K&N and Scion, oh wait we had to buy the K&N's and Scion charged for the stock air box. Bastards.
I also wanted to thank Leh for staying late with me to see what is what on the Intakes for the tC, and taking the pics. (for those who were waiting for the out come it was Leh's fault but don't get too mad at him)
Any way on to the Test. Our tC is pretty much stock with the addition of the Alfaworks Header that is in place and a B&M short shifter which does nothing for horse power.
Sooo here we go.
First up the stock airbox
Notice the did in Air Fuel on the top end so there is some more power to be had with the stock box using an emanage or even a S-AFC
Second up Stock Air Box with Drop In K&N filter. We left the charcoal thing in as well
This one was an absolute bummer IMO. It lost HP but the air fuel was good.
third K&N Typoon intake
The air Fuel got a little funny on this one. could be the cause for less HP than the others. With the cost of the intake I think your money would be better spent else where.
Forth Injen Cold Air
What can I say about this one it made the most horsepower the Air Fuel line was very clean in fact with an SAFC or ported T-Body could see somewhere in the 165 Range. Over all I am very impressed with this intake.
Fifth Injen Short Ram
We also tryed the short ram Injen Intake. but the hood was open so im sure under street conditions it would be lower do to heat soak. and the Air fuel went nuts around 5300. sense you can't buy just the Short Ram it is totally pointless to not install the Cold Air Section.
Sixth the F5Air Intake
The air fuel did the same thing as the injen short ram so im not sure the R&D was done on this kit as far as fuel tuning. the numbers are good and with a little tuning im sure it could be improved.
Now as far as the install goes i must say that the F5 was the easiest to install but after 3 intakes i think it was just practice.
So the overall winner was Injen and if anyone would like me to lay a graph over a different competitor please just let me know which two you would like to see.
I also wanted to thank Leh for staying late with me to see what is what on the Intakes for the tC, and taking the pics. (for those who were waiting for the out come it was Leh's fault but don't get too mad at him)
Any way on to the Test. Our tC is pretty much stock with the addition of the Alfaworks Header that is in place and a B&M short shifter which does nothing for horse power.
Sooo here we go.
First up the stock airbox
Notice the did in Air Fuel on the top end so there is some more power to be had with the stock box using an emanage or even a S-AFC
Second up Stock Air Box with Drop In K&N filter. We left the charcoal thing in as well
This one was an absolute bummer IMO. It lost HP but the air fuel was good.
third K&N Typoon intake
The air Fuel got a little funny on this one. could be the cause for less HP than the others. With the cost of the intake I think your money would be better spent else where.
Forth Injen Cold Air
What can I say about this one it made the most horsepower the Air Fuel line was very clean in fact with an SAFC or ported T-Body could see somewhere in the 165 Range. Over all I am very impressed with this intake.
Fifth Injen Short Ram
We also tryed the short ram Injen Intake. but the hood was open so im sure under street conditions it would be lower do to heat soak. and the Air fuel went nuts around 5300. sense you can't buy just the Short Ram it is totally pointless to not install the Cold Air Section.
Sixth the F5Air Intake
The air fuel did the same thing as the injen short ram so im not sure the R&D was done on this kit as far as fuel tuning. the numbers are good and with a little tuning im sure it could be improved.
Now as far as the install goes i must say that the F5 was the easiest to install but after 3 intakes i think it was just practice.
So the overall winner was Injen and if anyone would like me to lay a graph over a different competitor please just let me know which two you would like to see.
06-23-2006, 05:32 AM
#155
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^Good input. I think one or two of those seem high, but either way complete that with a exhaust, non of those would come close to 180whp.
Header's usually add the most whp between i-h-e set ups, so i can see why some of those numbers are fairly high i suppose. I'm still waiting for rythmnsmoke to post a n/a tC beyond 180whp with just three mods.
Header's usually add the most whp between i-h-e set ups, so i can see why some of those numbers are fairly high i suppose. I'm still waiting for rythmnsmoke to post a n/a tC beyond 180whp with just three mods.
06-23-2006, 02:16 PM
#156
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Originally Posted by killerxromances
Yep, i know nothing. And yep, those dynos can't be right although one was used on your argument of dyno jet.
So lets see, you said base line was in the low-mid 140s right? And you said auto was in the 130s? Lets see what i can pull on the auto.
And unlike you, rythmnsmoke, i am showing a dyno of a i/h/e combo, NOT some exhaust dyno sheet then claiming the rest. And these numbers are still slightly higher than what i've been seeing, but guess what. I choose the HIGHEST numbers i could find just to make even more of a point.
So lets see, you said base line was in the low-mid 140s right? And you said auto was in the 130s? Lets see what i can pull on the auto.
And unlike you, rythmnsmoke, i am showing a dyno of a i/h/e combo, NOT some exhaust dyno sheet then claiming the rest. And these numbers are still slightly higher than what i've been seeing, but guess what. I choose the HIGHEST numbers i could find just to make even more of a point.
Wow, you posted ONE, that's right ONE dyno. Yeah, that one dyno and ONE car is suppose to speak for all I/H/E combinations.....Give me a break dude.
I'll give you a vid when I get home.
PS....Dyno #'s are overrated, said it once before, I'll say it again. It's about how you put it down on the track. To which sir, I have yet to loose to an Ep3 that you so said was equal to the tC. It might be equal on the track, but on the street, it's not the case.
Like I said, I'll dig through my archives and find some dyno vids for you. In the mean time, you can PM MikeScion and he will confirm everything I have said thus far.
06-23-2006, 02:23 PM
#157
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Originally Posted by killerxromances
According to you, all three of these tCs must have just had an intake.
Words from srtforums.com/net:
"I was at the last dyno day the RSX club brought togeather and well, Alot of cars didnt show up. off the top of my head only 21 cars went. 3 Scion TC, 1 3rd gen Rx7, 1 s2000, 4 SRT's, and an accord who didn want to dyno. the rest was RSX.. they averaged about 150WHP. 1 RSX got 350WHP and another got 450WHP and that car didnt want to even idle.
i remember the s2000 got 200WHP, the Modded 3rdGen Rx7 only got 175WHP (He was having secondary igintion issues as i recall). all 3 Scion got 150ish WHP. my Srt got 238WHP. another got 310WHP on 75Shot He got 233 WHP without the shot. another guy got 230WHP, and the navy Srt owners dyno'd 250WHP when in reality it should of been 300WHP (He has Dyno'd 300+ before though. just happen that he swap to stage 0 to test out what it feels like). his A/f were Below the 9's all the way till redline."
Read about the tC's.. All three dyno'd in the 150's.
My advice? Stop looking at companies dynos, and start looking at real life dyno's. Companies are going to stretch it and make conditions absolutely perfect to sell their products. Obviously, they want their numbers to be as high as possible, and beyond. Also, stop talking me down but i know your going to come back with some ridiculous post about how your still right and i'm of course wrong, after all i drive a xb and not a tc. How about you do your homework.
Heres another dyno sheet: http://forums.evolutionm.net/attachm...chmentid=54429
Info: Magnaflow exhaust, low 141-143whp
Words from srtforums.com/net:
"I was at the last dyno day the RSX club brought togeather and well, Alot of cars didnt show up. off the top of my head only 21 cars went. 3 Scion TC, 1 3rd gen Rx7, 1 s2000, 4 SRT's, and an accord who didn want to dyno. the rest was RSX.. they averaged about 150WHP. 1 RSX got 350WHP and another got 450WHP and that car didnt want to even idle.
i remember the s2000 got 200WHP, the Modded 3rdGen Rx7 only got 175WHP (He was having secondary igintion issues as i recall). all 3 Scion got 150ish WHP. my Srt got 238WHP. another got 310WHP on 75Shot He got 233 WHP without the shot. another guy got 230WHP, and the navy Srt owners dyno'd 250WHP when in reality it should of been 300WHP (He has Dyno'd 300+ before though. just happen that he swap to stage 0 to test out what it feels like). his A/f were Below the 9's all the way till redline."
Read about the tC's.. All three dyno'd in the 150's.
My advice? Stop looking at companies dynos, and start looking at real life dyno's. Companies are going to stretch it and make conditions absolutely perfect to sell their products. Obviously, they want their numbers to be as high as possible, and beyond. Also, stop talking me down but i know your going to come back with some ridiculous post about how your still right and i'm of course wrong, after all i drive a xb and not a tc.
How about you do your homework.Heres another dyno sheet: http://forums.evolutionm.net/attachm...chmentid=54429
Info: Magnaflow exhaust, low 141-143whp
What the heck are you even talking about? Where the heck did you get the idea I was talking about Company dyno #'s...
06-23-2006, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by killerxromances
Originally Posted by 2redgerm6
i'm not trying to get in the middle of this or anything and this will be my only post on the subject. but i have recently seen (in the past 10 days) someone posted dyno results of 172whp and i believe they posted the dyno sheet as well. this was with intake, header,exhaust, and 3 pulley kit. i looked for it but couldn't find it to post a link. i don't know what kinda dyno it was and i thought it was kinda high myself but it is fresh in my memory. i will continue to look for and will post it if i find it.
Infact, i keep hoping a friend of mine will show online because his shop has done a port and polish job on this guys tC with i/h/e, crank, performance belts, and i think but not sure unichip. I'd like to get the dyno sheet from him if possible. I don't know what that tC dyno'd at or anything, but i'd like to get the info on it to post on here.
Stage 3.....
I didn't know a pulley came in Stages.. Goes to show you, NOT ALL TC'S ARE CREATED EQUAL. And just as I thought, if someone posted a dyno with said gains, all you would do was say the dyno was wrong, or say, "oh that's off, those #'s are rather high"... 
06-23-2006, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by killerxromances
^Good input. I think one or two of those seem high, but either way complete that with a exhaust, non of those would come close to 180whp.
Header's usually add the most whp between i-h-e set ups, so i can see why some of those numbers are fairly high i suppose. I'm still waiting for rythmnsmoke to post a n/a tC beyond 180whp with just three mods.
Header's usually add the most whp between i-h-e set ups, so i can see why some of those numbers are fairly high i suppose. I'm still waiting for rythmnsmoke to post a n/a tC beyond 180whp with just three mods.
With a full exhaust system, not some crummy axel back like you probably are thinking, would put the combination of the Full Injen intake + that header into the 170whp easily. Add a ZPI vr2 crank pulley(dynoed to produce 11.5 whp and 18wtq) and your at 180whp.
"so I can see why some of those numbers are fairly high".....OH GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK...
If you read back in my post, and copy and paste where I said i/h/e will give you 180whp be my guess. But you won't find it, wanna know why.....BECAUSE I DIDN'T SAY IT...
I told you if you pay attention...I/H/E/crank pulley would put you in the 175-180whp range. This whole debate started because you strated rasing the BS flag on people who have beat those said cars on the list. If they can beat them, then they beat them. All you could say is theories about how I, or those other dirvers were better than the drivers in the other car. That's a bunch of hog wash. You don't know how good of a driver the other guy is, nor do you know how good of a driver I am. And to be quite frank, I don't even think I'm that good. I just have victories and losses. And you know what, hate to quote a movie, but "Winning is Winning". If we had remote controls on our cars and raced them, then some of these victories would be different. But you know what, it's a stupid a$$ excuse about "Drivers were not as good as the other". SO WHAT! Driver is apart of the race. If you can't drive, then hand your **** over to someone who can, and I'll race them again. Don't matter if I win or loose. I just like freakin racing.
I can go dig vids for you all day, all you would say is those #'s are fairly high, which would just make my time and effort worthless.
I race, and on the ground and driving is how you get the job done. Not some crummy argument over how much power a tC would put down to the ground with the said mods, to which I disagreed with you, and felt the proof was in the pudding, and I spoon feed it to you. Have a good day, and keep trying to down play the tC all you want. At the end of the day, it's exhaust gases they smell from me anyway...
06-23-2006, 03:19 PM
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I posted one dyno of a I/H/E set up, a baseline run, and one or two with just an exhaust. Dude, your never pleased and now you just can't face defeat. I saw a ton of dynos i just choose one of the highest to please you.
If you want I can re-search and try to find the full exhaust, cat, s-pipe, i/h full you that was dyno'd at 165whp, that Magnaflow exhaust was a cat back btw.
Doesn't matter what i do here, your going to believe your over me. I showed you one with i/h/e, but you have shown me NONE with that set up to prove your point. I showed you baseline numbers in the 130's but i guess those must of been autos.
And yes this start with the BS flag i put up because even with 180whp (still call bs until i see it, which apparently you can't find anything your just going by assumptions) the tC is still over 3,000lbs with a driver.
Most of these cars you guys claim to beat are lighter with better power to weight ratios, some have better gearing ratios, and no I'm not just talking about the Honda's. I'm talking in general. And I'd like to see any sense with a good driver how a tC beats a 16psi Eclipse GST.
But I guess with people like you, anything is possible. Since you have 300whp now give or take, i guess you'll be beating Ferrari's, Lotus's, definitely STi's, Evo's, definitely would be "smoking" noble's.
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If you want I can re-search and try to find the full exhaust, cat, s-pipe, i/h full you that was dyno'd at 165whp, that Magnaflow exhaust was a cat back btw.
Doesn't matter what i do here, your going to believe your over me. I showed you one with i/h/e, but you have shown me NONE with that set up to prove your point. I showed you baseline numbers in the 130's but i guess those must of been autos.
And yes this start with the BS flag i put up because even with 180whp (still call bs until i see it, which apparently you can't find anything your just going by assumptions) the tC is still over 3,000lbs with a driver.
Most of these cars you guys claim to beat are lighter with better power to weight ratios, some have better gearing ratios, and no I'm not just talking about the Honda's. I'm talking in general. And I'd like to see any sense with a good driver how a tC beats a 16psi Eclipse GST.
But I guess with people like you, anything is possible. Since you have 300whp now give or take, i guess you'll be beating Ferrari's, Lotus's, definitely STi's, Evo's, definitely would be "smoking" noble's.
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