OooThatsSharp

What year XRS he have? The lift point moves around every year. 6200rpms for '03, 6500rpms for '04. 6600rpms for '05. I drive an '03 and I can stay in lift from first through 4th gear. My Matrix is bone stock, and have smoked '04s and '05s with I/H/E setups. Apparently Toyota raised the lift point to give a little better fuel economy, but thats not why I bought this car.

As far as the supercharger goes, yeah, you'll rock an XRS now, however there is a turbo kit coming soon from HASS turbo, that should get my little grocery getter haulin a$$. These guys are getting 266WHP from a 1zz (the 1.8L with no lift that you find in base/xr matrixs and gt celicas), just think about what they can do with a 2zz...

xA_Factor

I traded an '04 Matrix XRS for my Box. Plus I've driven my buddies TC quite a bit. The TC is a very nice car. But my XRS was much more entertaining to drive and felt much peppier by the seat-of-the-pants. And yeah, lift equals bye-bye TC. My friend agreed as well.

Ryhian

Yah there really is no comparison to the XRS's vs the tC's in term of racing. Ive driven it a few times and they are fun to drive. Its weird adjusting to the lack of torque, but once you get up into lift its exciting.

My buddy has an '06 XRS rolla and we've gone to the track a few times. My car is fully stock engine wise and best ive been able to get was 15.7 (with the stock 17's) and 15.8 with (18's). He ran I believe 15.2 stock and now with intake he is running 15.0.

The funny thing is when I was ordering my tC last year they had about 15 '05 XRS rollas on the lot and the dealer told me he would sell me one for 15,500. I think they're a lot of fun to drive but I enjoy the tC's look a lot more. At least 5 of my friends have rolla's so I didnt need to add another to the collection!

rimjay2

vvtl-i=v-tec > vvt-i

performance
honda>toyota

erc

VVTL-I is about the same as iVTEC. I wouldn't say that one is better than the other.

DouBLeJ16

I think the tC would beat both XRS's due to torque and better gear ratios..

Sci0nXa

sorry guys but no way can a tc beat an xrs. i have an xrs with only an intake and let me tell you, it is very quick. i'll be down to race a tc with only a supercharger and say i can still hang being neck and neck. dont forget that the 2zz-ge has the most advanced cam system in a production car. its true that it cannot handle high horsepower stock internal, but it makes up all around. recently the corolla, matrix and celica guys have been getting lots of goodies made for the 2zz. hydra made a new standalone that lets us drop lift down to whatever rpm desired meaning hitting top horsepower soon, just takes alot of tunning. 2 companies are out with cams this month, and a race header that puts down about 10hp and 10lb ft of tork to the wheels. there is also a final drive gear that is sold that allows the 2zz to hit speeds of 180mph.
the 2zz can safely hit 9000rpms just by changing the valve springs. and dont believe the rumors that the valves are very weak on the 2zz. if you were to miss shift at 8600rpm's what do you think would happen? exactly check out www.monkeywrenchracing.com for some monster 3zz buildup options. thats where they take a crank from the 1zz and put it in the 2zz and overbore the blocks to a hair under a 2.0
dont try picking on the 2zz, it is in a $40,000 lotus elise, and the $24,000 celica gts. anyone want to race, im located in riverside. hit me up, we'll make a video. but not like paris LOL.

Sci0nXa

http://mase.neptune.com/
some videos i found of a matrix which has a video of a matrix (sorry not stock) racing a tc. will look for an even match

azepolyn

eh ... XRS beats tC
the torque starting out will make it look close, but a shift or two and the XRS will pull away

JustAnotherAsian

http://9thgencorolla.com/forums/view...er=asc&start=0

you put on a superchager you say? well, what if an xrs puts one as well? better yet, what if greddy makes such a supercharger? just imagine such a light car with around 230 hp to the wheels! the supercharged corolla still has a few minor issues to work out, but people (including me) are already putting bets on how much whp the car is gonna dyno soon. not bad for a corolla.

anywaiz, the gear ratios for the xrs are designed so that in agressive/max-acceleration shifting, the 2zz-ge doesnt fall out of lift much. so from a standstill, the xrs will pull a little from the tc due to weight advantage and stay a little bit ahead of the tC, then lift would engage and the xrs would pull.

the torque disadvantage in the 2zz-ge that the matrix xrs and celica gt-s have is minimized (a little) in the corolla's 2zz-ge. keep in mind that the tuning in the corolla traded off a little horsepower (180 down to 170) for a bump in torque (130-ish). so a corolla's race may be different from a matrix's race.

just my two cents.

Mase_XRS

Those are my videos. When I raced the TC, I started a gear higher than usual. If I would've started in a lower gear that would have put me at the ideal 6500rpm, then you honestly wouldn't have even seen the TC in the video.

I have to admit though...I've always wanted to get a TC because of the looks. Couldn't wait long enough for them to get released back then so I ended up getting 2 XRS's.

raamaudio

They are all great cars I loved my XRT Matrix though, never met an XRS that could touch it;)

In general all around driving the tC is going to be a bit quicker, only when running full out do you get to the fun part of the 2zz engine, then they are a blast of course. The problem is, high RPM is far harder on an engine than boost(when properly tuned).

My ultimate sleeper I just about built was to get a bone stock, plain silver Corolla and swap all my Matrix parts over to it, 250WHP, low weight, 235 R compound tires, full suspension, brakes, seats, etc, would of been one fast sleeper! On top of that I was in the middle of a fully built engine project that was to be dual mapped for 91 and race fuel.

But, my best buddy(besides my kids) was ruined physically and financially by a big wig doctor cutting him up and I sold the car and all parts to help him out which was the right thing to do.

Anyway, different cars, different needs, different is good, does not mean one is that much better than the other, depends on what your expectations are and where you want to take it to, what level meets your fun factor

Cool to see my fellow MO.com buddies here, would love to show you a quick tC in the near future if you are in the Portland OR area, coming out with it pretty soon

Rick

DouBLeJ16

What do you have done to your XRS & what are you running in the 1/4 or 1/8?

Sci0nXa

i dont know how you conclude that boost is less stressfull then high reving engine. they booth bring compression up. its just harder to make an all motor car then a low compression engine with a turbo. if you ask me, an engine that is designed stock to be high revving will take less stress then an engine that was not designed for forced induction. im not saying my engine is better then yours, im just saying that if your saying that most likely my stock internal engine with bolt ons will last longer in better condition then a turbo'd tc. you also have to deal with turbo maintnence. so my point, i dont think toyota would release an engine that runs hard on its self. ..........................snaps, lol yeah i guess the tc was made to bolt on some boost. but yeah bring it on. as for mase, im behind you. i raced a guy on a stock 5 speed tc. i was running stock + 2 passengers and after 7000 rpm's i split with lift.

jetlounge

iTrader: (3)

funny so may xrs converts here. i got rid of my 03 xrs in favor of the tC too.
the tC is much more fun to drive. and to look at. and to sit in. plus 4 doors is 2 doors too many.

raamaudio

ScionXa,
It all has to do with physics. A great primer on forced induction that explains why FI can do such wonders on a small NA engine was authored by Corky Bell. It is called Maximum Boost and a very good read.

You can check it out if truely interested but it basically explains, with science, that a doubling of power with forced induction only results in a 20% gain in stress on the engine due to the position of the moving parts in relation to when the power is actually made. Very enlightening to say the least.
Then he goes on to explain the stresses induced by raising RPM to gain power are, if I can recall this just right, doubled with just a modest increase in RPM which by itself does not increase power all that much.

High compression, valve lift and duration, etc, are what make power in a NA engine. Problem is, to gain much more power than a great design, which the 2ZZ is an incredible engine for it't intended use, if very difficult and costly.

You would face even more issues like driveability, durability, fuel requirements, etc.

Engines like the 2ZZ have their place, I love them, really.

BUT, if you want to make more power than that, stick with a lower compression, lower reving engine and just boost it

Of course you have a bit more maintenance but the only real issue is tuning, has to be very well done and reliable. Once that is resolved, good to go for along time.

So, I concluded nothing, I learned from what has been done and proven by others to be fact and am just stating what I have learned so that others may get a chance to be enlightened to the real story as I have been;)

Rick