Pure Price? NOT!
01-17-2005, 11:29 PM
#21
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You may not think that a test drive 4 or 5 months ago is any big thing, but you have TAKEN THAT PERSON'S TIME, the one commodity that they can NEVER get back. . . . You need to value their time as much as you value your own.
If every dealer in the Scion network sold using the Scion Promise and Pure Pricing, we would have a wonderfully efficient model of car retailing, with happy customers and a profitable car line.
Walmart is the enemy of small business, and does not help the American economy. It fosters poverty level pay scales, all the while making suppliers take their operations overseas and out of the country in order to meet Walmart's pricing demands.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_...s_the_war.html
01-18-2005, 03:09 AM
#22
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Quote:
You may not think that a test drive 4 or 5 months ago is any big thing, but you have TAKEN THAT PERSON'S TIME, the one commodity that they can NEVER get back. . . . You need to value their time as much as you value your own.
As a matter of fact, my religion, Judaism, has a teaching that you shouldn’t ask a merchant about a price unless it is actually possible that you will make the purchase. Similarly, I think you shouldn’t ask for a test drive unless you are serious about maybe buying that type of vehicle. Having said that, test drives are a service each individual dealer performs for the community of all dealers. Shopping for price is the step after deciding what to buy, and I don’t think we ever bought a car where we test-drove. Sorry JUMBO, but I am not going to feel guilty about this.
You may not think that a test drive 4 or 5 months ago is any big thing, but you have TAKEN THAT PERSON'S TIME, the one commodity that they can NEVER get back. . . . You need to value their time as much as you value your own.
As a matter of fact, my religion, Judaism, has a teaching that you shouldn’t ask a merchant about a price unless it is actually possible that you will make the purchase. Similarly, I think you shouldn’t ask for a test drive unless you are serious about maybe buying that type of vehicle. Having said that, test drives are a service each individual dealer performs for the community of all dealers. Shopping for price is the step after deciding what to buy, and I don’t think we ever bought a car where we test-drove. Sorry JUMBO, but I am not going to feel guilty about this.
01-18-2005, 09:58 AM
#23
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What does your religion say about being a cheap bastard and haggling?
If I were to give advice, my advice is to NOT be the first one to start a haggling session with a Scion dealer. However, I would advise going to more than one dealer, and sharing bottom line prices found previously -- especially if the dealers in your area fail to detail nuisance fees on their web sites. If the salesperson then responds per the Scion convenant, great. But if they start with the walking away to talk to the manager nonsense, you should use exactly the same silly tactics to save $100 on your Scion as you used to save $1,000 on your last car. Otherwise you are just making a charitable contribution to a bad car dealer.
Having said that, I did not haggle with any dealer for the xB we just bought. One dealer, from whom we did not buy, did start haggling with my wife.
01-18-2005, 05:07 PM
#24
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Haggling is distasteful and honestly degrading. I hate it. I've been doing it for 11 years in this business because I must to make a good living (and it really is a good living). Before Scion came along, I did my best to minimize the amount of haggling by demonstrating the value of the product I was offering. I also did it by being straight forward and honest.
That didn't always work. There would always be the "grinder" who seemed to take sheer delight in squeezing the last penny out of the deal and hence, out of my paycheck. That kind of customer would sell me out over $50, even if that meant going to the lying scum suckers that had lied to him time and time again. This kind of customer literally put more value on pocket change then they did on integrity.
As much as I think such folks are vile excuses for human beings, I actually empathized with them. We in this business created this system. We created the incentive to take the last piece of meat off the bone and encouraged lying and deceit because that's how many in this industry behaved. I certainly can't expect more out of my customers than they expact out of me. Unfortunately, most of these "grinders" didn't take into account the chance that they would run across a decent human being in a car dealership and I paid for the sins of others as a result.
Scion was meant to change that. Take out the ability to grind on the part of the customer while simultaneously removing the ability to lie from the sales staff. Obviously, some on both sides of the table don't get it. Salesmen who don't get it should never see a Scion customer and customers who insist on living in the old system should stay out of Scion showrooms.
That didn't always work. There would always be the "grinder" who seemed to take sheer delight in squeezing the last penny out of the deal and hence, out of my paycheck. That kind of customer would sell me out over $50, even if that meant going to the lying scum suckers that had lied to him time and time again. This kind of customer literally put more value on pocket change then they did on integrity.
As much as I think such folks are vile excuses for human beings, I actually empathized with them. We in this business created this system. We created the incentive to take the last piece of meat off the bone and encouraged lying and deceit because that's how many in this industry behaved. I certainly can't expect more out of my customers than they expact out of me. Unfortunately, most of these "grinders" didn't take into account the chance that they would run across a decent human being in a car dealership and I paid for the sins of others as a result.
Scion was meant to change that. Take out the ability to grind on the part of the customer while simultaneously removing the ability to lie from the sales staff. Obviously, some on both sides of the table don't get it. Salesmen who don't get it should never see a Scion customer and customers who insist on living in the old system should stay out of Scion showrooms.
01-18-2005, 07:23 PM
#25
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I tried to post yesterday, got a error so ....
I see a lot of misconceptions being argued here. Pure pricing does NOT tell us what to sell the vehicle for, it just tells us we have to sell it for the same price to every customer. That price has to not only be posted on the showroom but also on the dealers special SCION website, where all the finance rates, accessories, and pretty much anything else than can be part of the SCION purchase is listed.
I work for a posted price dealer so this is nothing new to me. Matter of fact, or SCION posted pricing is $339 below MSRP. We clearly note the $99 processing fee, it is on any vehicle we sell BTW.
As far as negotiating, we do not do that. We do have a 150% best price guarantee. If you want to negotiate, go try somewhere else.
As to the ETHICS I am seeing discussed here, it a dealer is willing to ingore/break the Pure Price covenant then why would you trust them at all? They will only give up on money to try and make it back somewhere else, and if they can not they will just refuse to sell the car to you - that is their right.
The dealer will always win when negotiating, believe me.
I see a lot of misconceptions being argued here. Pure pricing does NOT tell us what to sell the vehicle for, it just tells us we have to sell it for the same price to every customer. That price has to not only be posted on the showroom but also on the dealers special SCION website, where all the finance rates, accessories, and pretty much anything else than can be part of the SCION purchase is listed.
I work for a posted price dealer so this is nothing new to me. Matter of fact, or SCION posted pricing is $339 below MSRP. We clearly note the $99 processing fee, it is on any vehicle we sell BTW.
As far as negotiating, we do not do that. We do have a 150% best price guarantee. If you want to negotiate, go try somewhere else.
As to the ETHICS I am seeing discussed here, it a dealer is willing to ingore/break the Pure Price covenant then why would you trust them at all? They will only give up on money to try and make it back somewhere else, and if they can not they will just refuse to sell the car to you - that is their right.
The dealer will always win when negotiating, believe me.
01-18-2005, 11:55 PM
#26
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COMPLETELY UNPAID AND UNSOLICITED ADVERTISING ALERT
I don't know, but if bc was posting in the morning, that computer error might have cost his or her dealership a sale. His place is a distance, but we like to drive.
I did notice, before reading bc’s post, that Fitzgerald's Scion Of Gaithersburg Maryland was a little cheaper than the local discounter I found and yesterday bought at. But I didn't realize a few things until, just now, reading bc’s post and checking out his dealership’s web sites more carefully:
1. Back in 1993, we bought a Plymouth minivan from Fitzgerald -- and it was a no-haggle deal even then. My credit union, which is headquartered in DC, loaned us the money and then sent us to Fitzgerald.
2. Fitzgerald also has a Scion dealership about 2 1/2 hours from us, in our state (Fitzgerald Scion, Chambersburg Pennsylvania), offering the commonplace lower Pennsylvania doc fee*, and, according to the family-of-dealerships web site (http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsa.asp?mode=NEW&lstMake=TOYOTA|SCION+XB), the low Gaithersburg prices.
3. If we had bought there, I would have been patronizing one of my fellow posters.
A friendly comment/suggestion. Some Scion dealer web sites seem to inadvertently hide low prices or freebies, and Fitzgerald is no exception. http://www.chambersburgscion.com only shows list prices. Fitzgerald does sell the cars at list with service extras thrown in. But the Pennsylvania site should mention, as does the main Maryland one, that people who come from a distance, or otherwise don’t want the extras, can save $339. Also, both the Gaithersburg and Chambersburg pages fail to put anything on the New Car Promotions page. This is where you can point out that the prices are discount and generally make a big deal of the whole dealership, including the Toyota side, being no-haggle. Maybe the problem is that the people who designed these web pages, which are quite similar for most dealers, did not make them easy to modify.
Of course, some people don’t have a choice because they live far from all but one Scion dealer. But if you live anywhere near DC or Chambersburg, I would definitely check out bc’s place.
* Obviously, check with dealers for price details rather than trusting me to get this stuff right! It may be that the doc fee varies based on where your car will be registered.
Originally Posted by bc
I tried to post yesterday, got a error so ....
I did notice, before reading bc’s post, that Fitzgerald's Scion Of Gaithersburg Maryland was a little cheaper than the local discounter I found and yesterday bought at. But I didn't realize a few things until, just now, reading bc’s post and checking out his dealership’s web sites more carefully:
1. Back in 1993, we bought a Plymouth minivan from Fitzgerald -- and it was a no-haggle deal even then. My credit union, which is headquartered in DC, loaned us the money and then sent us to Fitzgerald.
2. Fitzgerald also has a Scion dealership about 2 1/2 hours from us, in our state (Fitzgerald Scion, Chambersburg Pennsylvania), offering the commonplace lower Pennsylvania doc fee*, and, according to the family-of-dealerships web site (http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsa.asp?mode=NEW&lstMake=TOYOTA|SCION+XB), the low Gaithersburg prices.
3. If we had bought there, I would have been patronizing one of my fellow posters.
A friendly comment/suggestion. Some Scion dealer web sites seem to inadvertently hide low prices or freebies, and Fitzgerald is no exception. http://www.chambersburgscion.com only shows list prices. Fitzgerald does sell the cars at list with service extras thrown in. But the Pennsylvania site should mention, as does the main Maryland one, that people who come from a distance, or otherwise don’t want the extras, can save $339. Also, both the Gaithersburg and Chambersburg pages fail to put anything on the New Car Promotions page. This is where you can point out that the prices are discount and generally make a big deal of the whole dealership, including the Toyota side, being no-haggle. Maybe the problem is that the people who designed these web pages, which are quite similar for most dealers, did not make them easy to modify.
. . . a dealer is willing to ingore/break the Pure Price covenant then why would you trust them at all?
* Obviously, check with dealers for price details rather than trusting me to get this stuff right! It may be that the doc fee varies based on where your car will be registered.
01-19-2005, 01:31 PM
#27
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Well now that you're going to offer free advertising to one dealership, I feel it should be pointed out that the dealer in question actually has three different prices for their cars listed on various web site. One of those three is an error caused by a relationship between the dealer and its new web host, Reynolds and Reynolds. This is an error I caught and have corrected for my dealership, but they have not.
Beyond the error, they have two prices, depending on how hard you are willing to look. I'm not a big fan of this practice. I think it goes totally against the grain of the Scion sales model and I suspect it violates the dealer covenant. Even if it doesn't it does create havoc. Customers get the message from Scion and from Scion dealers that prices are consistent, fair and not subject to negotiation. Then, one dealer comes along and says "Screw that... find the right web site and we'll discount it $300." What message to consumers get from that?
By the way... I'm not blaming bc. In fact, from what I have seen, he seems like quite the decent person. This is not his call, nor his policy and I would not hold it against him personally. I do however, think his dealership is perpetuating the idea that games can and are being played with consumers.
Beyond the error, they have two prices, depending on how hard you are willing to look. I'm not a big fan of this practice. I think it goes totally against the grain of the Scion sales model and I suspect it violates the dealer covenant. Even if it doesn't it does create havoc. Customers get the message from Scion and from Scion dealers that prices are consistent, fair and not subject to negotiation. Then, one dealer comes along and says "Screw that... find the right web site and we'll discount it $300." What message to consumers get from that?
By the way... I'm not blaming bc. In fact, from what I have seen, he seems like quite the decent person. This is not his call, nor his policy and I would not hold it against him personally. I do however, think his dealership is perpetuating the idea that games can and are being played with consumers.
01-19-2005, 09:57 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by Steve Eisenberg
Similarly, I think you shouldn’t ask for a test drive unless you are serious about maybe buying that type of vehicle. Having said that, test drives are a service each individual dealer performs for the community of all dealers. Shopping for price is the step after deciding what to buy, and I don’t think we ever bought a car where we test-drove. Sorry JUMBO, but I am not going to feel guilty about this.
When my salespeople make the commitment to go on a test drive, they do so after qualifying the person as a customer (ie one who will more than likely spend money with the dealership) first. If the person is only there to use the salesperson to get a lower price or save their own time later, then they may not get a test drive.
That might sound harsh, but I must re-iterate that we do not sell cars for fun, but to make money. Every minute I talk to a potential customer needs to be utilized as efficiently as possible, and if I'm not going to sell a car, I need to move on as professionally as possible.
I appreciate your religious beliefs, and I find it interesting that it is addressed. But from my end, I would even say that unless you plan on doing business with that specific dealer, you should refrain from test driving.
Just my .02, and I'm glad that you decided on a Scion. Enjoy your car.
LATER
02-07-2005, 05:31 PM
#29
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Wow, Jon. not the kind of attitude I would expect from a sales person or manager or whatever positions you hold at your dealership.
My wife and I are looking at a Scion tc, so I decided to check out some of the forums to obtain some info on how the whole Scion system works.
As I look back to my years of purchasing cars, there was many times where I thought I wanted a certain car until I took it for a test drive. And you are telling us that your salesmen makes a decision on if a person "is a valid" customer before they are allowed to take a test drive? That is amazing.
One thing I have found out is that Scion has a lot of work to do on their reputation, a short lived one so far at that. Many of the forums contain numerous threads regarding this type of behavior.
Every customer that walks through the door should be considered a valid customer till they leave. I know have serious doubts on if we will head to a scion dealership to consider buying one. See the closest dealership is about 45 mins away. Could you imagine driving 45 mins and running into a salesman that has to make a decision as to weather you can or cant take a car for a test drive? Seems like you are shorting yourself on those "potential customers" you so eagerly wish to serve.
My wife and I are looking at a Scion tc, so I decided to check out some of the forums to obtain some info on how the whole Scion system works.
As I look back to my years of purchasing cars, there was many times where I thought I wanted a certain car until I took it for a test drive. And you are telling us that your salesmen makes a decision on if a person "is a valid" customer before they are allowed to take a test drive? That is amazing.
One thing I have found out is that Scion has a lot of work to do on their reputation, a short lived one so far at that. Many of the forums contain numerous threads regarding this type of behavior.
Every customer that walks through the door should be considered a valid customer till they leave. I know have serious doubts on if we will head to a scion dealership to consider buying one. See the closest dealership is about 45 mins away. Could you imagine driving 45 mins and running into a salesman that has to make a decision as to weather you can or cant take a car for a test drive? Seems like you are shorting yourself on those "potential customers" you so eagerly wish to serve.
02-07-2005, 07:24 PM
#30
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I think that you are misunderstanding my point of view on this subject.
The statement that was made earlier said that dealerships provide test drives as a service to the community of dealerships as a whole, which is absolutely incorrect. It is not my job, nor my salespeople's jobs, to help another dealer sell a car. It is our job to try and sell a car OURSELVES.
Of course any porfessional salesperson will qualify a customer when they come in, but all that means is that we probe to gather information that will help us meet the customer's needs the best. During that interaction, a salesperson can usually determine whether or not we are dealing with a buyer or not. Now, of course, not everyone is buying all the time. We ALL shop for various things during our lives, and we have different reasons for shopping. And many times, we don't necessarily purchase where we got the most service. And that is unfortunate.
My job here, as well as my salespeople's job, is to provide great customer service and sell cars. If we do the first, the second should happen. Many, many times, we provide a customer with the finest car shopping experience they have ever had, and they will purchase elsewhere over something like $100 difference. It has happened. All I am trying to get across is that customers should value their salesperson AT LEAST as much as the salesperson values them. If a salesperson does a poor job, don't reward him with the business. If the salesperson does a great job, reward them with the purchase. Our time is as valuable as yours, and it is important that customers are as honest with us as they want us to be with them. Many customers know exactly what they are at the dealership to accomplish that day, and if there is a possibility that a purchase is imminent, let the salesperson know. We assume that a customer comes to the lot to buy, not look. Far less time will be wasted on both sides of the equation if everyone is honest from the start.
I have had many Scion customers come in and tell me right off the bat "I'm planning on buying a Scion elsewhere, but I wanted to see what you had, etc". That opens the door for me to explore and see what it is that is taking their business elsewhere. I had a customer like that last month, and he could have easily been blown off, but I walked him through the process, told him the truth at every turn, and let him leave that night. He called from the other dealer the next day, and told me how they were behaving, and how he appreciated how we did business, and he came back and bought the car from me.
EVERY SINGLE person that I talk to will be treated like they can and will purchase a car until they prove that they WILL, WON'T, or CAN'T. Typically, a test drive must happen, and test drives DO happen. That is a part of the job. But I am doing them for MINE and MY customer's benefit, not anyone else's.
I certainly hope that you make the trip to explore a Scion as an option for yourself. I'm confident that you will like the car and the sales process. I hope it fits your individual needs, because you will enjoy purchasing and owning one.
I would be willing to clarify my point-of-view further if you like, and if you have any questions regarding Scion or anything else for that matter, feel free to contact me.
Jon
The statement that was made earlier said that dealerships provide test drives as a service to the community of dealerships as a whole, which is absolutely incorrect. It is not my job, nor my salespeople's jobs, to help another dealer sell a car. It is our job to try and sell a car OURSELVES.
Of course any porfessional salesperson will qualify a customer when they come in, but all that means is that we probe to gather information that will help us meet the customer's needs the best. During that interaction, a salesperson can usually determine whether or not we are dealing with a buyer or not. Now, of course, not everyone is buying all the time. We ALL shop for various things during our lives, and we have different reasons for shopping. And many times, we don't necessarily purchase where we got the most service. And that is unfortunate.
My job here, as well as my salespeople's job, is to provide great customer service and sell cars. If we do the first, the second should happen. Many, many times, we provide a customer with the finest car shopping experience they have ever had, and they will purchase elsewhere over something like $100 difference. It has happened. All I am trying to get across is that customers should value their salesperson AT LEAST as much as the salesperson values them. If a salesperson does a poor job, don't reward him with the business. If the salesperson does a great job, reward them with the purchase. Our time is as valuable as yours, and it is important that customers are as honest with us as they want us to be with them. Many customers know exactly what they are at the dealership to accomplish that day, and if there is a possibility that a purchase is imminent, let the salesperson know. We assume that a customer comes to the lot to buy, not look. Far less time will be wasted on both sides of the equation if everyone is honest from the start.
I have had many Scion customers come in and tell me right off the bat "I'm planning on buying a Scion elsewhere, but I wanted to see what you had, etc". That opens the door for me to explore and see what it is that is taking their business elsewhere. I had a customer like that last month, and he could have easily been blown off, but I walked him through the process, told him the truth at every turn, and let him leave that night. He called from the other dealer the next day, and told me how they were behaving, and how he appreciated how we did business, and he came back and bought the car from me.
EVERY SINGLE person that I talk to will be treated like they can and will purchase a car until they prove that they WILL, WON'T, or CAN'T. Typically, a test drive must happen, and test drives DO happen. That is a part of the job. But I am doing them for MINE and MY customer's benefit, not anyone else's.
I certainly hope that you make the trip to explore a Scion as an option for yourself. I'm confident that you will like the car and the sales process. I hope it fits your individual needs, because you will enjoy purchasing and owning one.
I would be willing to clarify my point-of-view further if you like, and if you have any questions regarding Scion or anything else for that matter, feel free to contact me.
Jon
02-08-2005, 01:41 AM
#31
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"And you are telling us that your salesmen makes a decision on if a person "is a valid" customer before they are allowed to take a test drive? That is amazing. "
All dealers, from all car manufacturers, do that to some degree. And its not even limited to car dealers... ever get a real estate agent to show you their listings without running your credit FIRST?
All dealers, from all car manufacturers, do that to some degree. And its not even limited to car dealers... ever get a real estate agent to show you their listings without running your credit FIRST?
02-08-2005, 03:33 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by JUMBO
Many, many times, we provide a customer with the finest car shopping experience they have ever had, and they will purchase elsewhere over something like $100 difference.
I can see that some people who are getting their vehicle customized might look at it differently. It takes all knids of different people to make up the world, as I'm sure a car salesperson learns.
02-08-2005, 04:48 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Steve Eisenberg
Originally Posted by JUMBO
Many, many times, we provide a customer with the finest car shopping experience they have ever had, and they will purchase elsewhere over something like $100 difference.
I can see that some people who are getting their vehicle customized might look at it differently. It takes all knids of different people to make up the world, as I'm sure a car salesperson learns.
And as far as Consumer's Reports goes, they are terrible. Sure, they test things, and exist to ostensibly help the consumer, but their advice will hurt everyone eventually. They say to GO to the retail establishment, USE the salesperson's expertise, GATHER all of your information, and they BUY it online. If enough people do that enough times, there won't be anymore retail establishments to visit. And no experts to consult. And no recourse when there's an issue. But, hey, at least you saved a couple of bucks.
I understand that the world is made up of types of people. Every day in my profession is different from the last because of this, and that's why I do it. As long as customers and salespeople are honest with each other, everyone makes out.
02-08-2005, 05:52 PM
#34
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damn i feel sorry for yah jumbo. i agree with everything you said, because i'm know this side of the fence. its hard to get across in words what he means. if you haven't been a car salesman it's hard to understand. he isn't saying screw the customer, which it seems is the way some people are taking it. now, if i were buying a washing machine, i would pay an extra 4 dollars (close to the same percentage 100/15000----4/700) for excellent customer service. shoot, i'd pay an extra 50 bucks if the person goes the extra mile for me. but, of course thats just me. i'm also the type of guy who won't tip at restraunts if the waiter is a jerk. now, with all that being said, i test drive everyone. i'm not a carsalesman. well, i am, but i'm not. because of the way our scion dept. is set up, i don't worry to much about customers coming back or not. it always seems to work out for me in the end. but, of course, i don't plan on being in this business long either.
it all comes down to respect. just respect the salesman if he respects you. oh and get a job as a car salesman
it all comes down to respect. just respect the salesman if he respects you. oh and get a job as a car salesman
02-08-2005, 07:11 PM
#35
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Absolutely I would pay $100 more for a large appliance if the sales person demonstrated the value. Hell, I've done that many times, including a boat purchase, a pair of boots and a TV. On each one of those transactions, I willingly paid more to an establishment that went out of its way to meet my needs.
Shopping for me is different. If I run into a moron that doesn't know his product and adds nothing to the value of a product, I'll shop the crap out of him. I'll go to every web site and store to get the last penny out of a purchase if all I get from sales staff is lies and idiocy. If I get a reasonble person who tells me something I didn't know about a product and helps me choose a product that meets my needs, I'll gladly buy it right away without hassle or haggling. I figure the sales person just saved me time and agravation and helped me get more out of the purchase by showing me how it works and that has value to me. Its value I'll pay for.
Shopping for me is different. If I run into a moron that doesn't know his product and adds nothing to the value of a product, I'll shop the crap out of him. I'll go to every web site and store to get the last penny out of a purchase if all I get from sales staff is lies and idiocy. If I get a reasonble person who tells me something I didn't know about a product and helps me choose a product that meets my needs, I'll gladly buy it right away without hassle or haggling. I figure the sales person just saved me time and agravation and helped me get more out of the purchase by showing me how it works and that has value to me. Its value I'll pay for.
02-09-2005, 12:19 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by JUMBO
If the salesperson helped me to the point where the effort and establishment were worth extra, yes, yes I would pay it. $100 extra on a $700 purchase is a MUCH larger percentage then $100 on a $15,000 purchase, wouldn't you agree.
To say something else a lot of good people might not agree with, Scions are, as they say in Canada, the low-end Toyotas from the states. I’m not a rich man, and getting modest new cars (and keeping them for at least 100,000 miles) is one of the few real luxuries we allow ourselves. So I don’t look on it the way some others might.
And as far as Consumer's Reports goes, they are terrible.
Personally, I hate to haggle and this is one reason why the xB was an easy sell (to me) after my wife told me about it.
I do certainly agree with the point that customers should respect the salesperson’s time. Pure Price makes this much easier to do without putting yourself at a financial disadvantage. Under the haggling system, it is inevitable that lots of time will be wasted on both sides unless the customer agrees to leave money on the table. I know people who love it as some kind of battle of wits. Me, I never liked it.
02-09-2005, 02:33 AM
#37
Fascinating thread, actually. Thanks for starting it, Steve.
I am, I suppose, an oddball Scion buyer. I'm not in their targeted demographics at all.
When I bought my xB I'd been into that dealership to look at Scions twice: Once when they first showed up in this state, and once to buy.
The first time I plainly told the salesperson who greeted me that I was only looking, and they took that opportunity to stalk other customers.
The second time I went in was many months later, and I told the salesperson that I was there most likely to buy an xB that day, depending on the outcome of a test drive.
I took a four mile or so test drive to verify my thoughts on the vehicle, and the rest of my time was spent drinking coffee while the dealership did their thing with credit check and tracking down what I wanted. This was painless for both them and me (and they actually had some pretty good coffee!).
This is the 28th car I've bought, the 23rd new one. Most have been fairly painless, some have been miserable experiences. Few have been as easy, pleasant, and satisfying as this recent Scion purchase.
On another part of this thread: Would I conciously spend a bit more for something than I absolutely had to? Yes I would, and yes I have - often.
I've bought things for over 50 years, and while I will often go for a bargin price, I will just as often display "loyalty" to a seller who has treated me well as a customer. I will spend a bit extra at a local mom-and-pop shop with good customer skills rather than go to a nationwide discounter with know-nothing sales critters who care little about "customer care" and don't consider it a part of their temporary job, anyway.
When I spend a bit more to get good customer service, I look at it as no more than leaving a tip for a job well done.
I spend the extra money knowingly and willingly, and feel adequately rewarded fo my slight extra expense.
Maybe I'm some sort of throwback, eh?
I am, I suppose, an oddball Scion buyer. I'm not in their targeted demographics at all.
When I bought my xB I'd been into that dealership to look at Scions twice: Once when they first showed up in this state, and once to buy.
The first time I plainly told the salesperson who greeted me that I was only looking, and they took that opportunity to stalk other customers.
The second time I went in was many months later, and I told the salesperson that I was there most likely to buy an xB that day, depending on the outcome of a test drive.
I took a four mile or so test drive to verify my thoughts on the vehicle, and the rest of my time was spent drinking coffee while the dealership did their thing with credit check and tracking down what I wanted. This was painless for both them and me (and they actually had some pretty good coffee!).
This is the 28th car I've bought, the 23rd new one. Most have been fairly painless, some have been miserable experiences. Few have been as easy, pleasant, and satisfying as this recent Scion purchase.
On another part of this thread: Would I conciously spend a bit more for something than I absolutely had to? Yes I would, and yes I have - often.
I've bought things for over 50 years, and while I will often go for a bargin price, I will just as often display "loyalty" to a seller who has treated me well as a customer. I will spend a bit extra at a local mom-and-pop shop with good customer skills rather than go to a nationwide discounter with know-nothing sales critters who care little about "customer care" and don't consider it a part of their temporary job, anyway.
When I spend a bit more to get good customer service, I look at it as no more than leaving a tip for a job well done.
I spend the extra money knowingly and willingly, and feel adequately rewarded fo my slight extra expense.
Maybe I'm some sort of throwback, eh?
02-09-2005, 01:56 PM
#38
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Springfield Scion (VA)
Posts: 526
Yup, that does make you a throwback it seems. You and me both.
Here's another point... the right salesman can actually increase the value of a product. This isn't always the case, but what if your salesman is able to show you something about the car that you didn't know about? I had a customer who's friend had bout an xB at a competing dealership. While I was going over the new customer's new car, I showed her how the SSP button works. The woman who already owned a Scion was in the back seat, watching. She had no idea what the button did. She was extatic. She had a much better stereo than she thought she did.
Here's another way to look at it. Let's say you have two people who own identical Scions and paid exactly the same amount. Let's also say that one of them was unaware of how to turn off the "maintenance" light. Or perhaps one of them didn't know about the two click feature on the remote. Maybe only one of them knew what that big screw looking thing is in the spare tire compartment. All aspects of the deal were the same, yet how is getting more for their money?
Here's another point... the right salesman can actually increase the value of a product. This isn't always the case, but what if your salesman is able to show you something about the car that you didn't know about? I had a customer who's friend had bout an xB at a competing dealership. While I was going over the new customer's new car, I showed her how the SSP button works. The woman who already owned a Scion was in the back seat, watching. She had no idea what the button did. She was extatic. She had a much better stereo than she thought she did.
Here's another way to look at it. Let's say you have two people who own identical Scions and paid exactly the same amount. Let's also say that one of them was unaware of how to turn off the "maintenance" light. Or perhaps one of them didn't know about the two click feature on the remote. Maybe only one of them knew what that big screw looking thing is in the spare tire compartment. All aspects of the deal were the same, yet how is getting more for their money?
02-09-2005, 02:42 PM
#39
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
N.G.S.O.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: smarthomes chattanooga TN
Posts: 459
I really appreciate the way that this discussion is staying on topic and maintaining a higher level of communication than most discussions about this subject. Thank you all.
Steve, you hit the nail on the head with your idea stating that Consumer's Reports being better for the corporation than the dealership. That is almost always the case with CR - they ultimately somewhat benefit the producer of the goods, at the expense of the sales and service people involved.
I hate to haggle, also. I feel that it takes some of the dignity out of the process. I am a professional, and I sure didn't feel like it when I am arguing over $100 with someone. I would just as soon give it up and let the customer 'win', so I could maintain some personal respect. Some people in my industry equate salesmanship to being able to negotiate with an iron fist. I wholeheartedly disagree. I equate salesmanship to being able to determine my customer's needs accurately, deliver on my promises, and bring value to the transaction.
Tomas - it seems rather unfortunate that you are a throwback. Unfortunate in that people have moved away from placing value on people when it comes to a transaction. Many of my Scion transactions go like you described, and it's days like that that I really love my job.
Oh, and as an aside, Buick (GM for that matter) shouldn't hate Consumer's Reports for spilling the beans. They should hate the executives that put more stock in incentives and rebates as opposed to building a decent car. ;)
Steve, you hit the nail on the head with your idea stating that Consumer's Reports being better for the corporation than the dealership. That is almost always the case with CR - they ultimately somewhat benefit the producer of the goods, at the expense of the sales and service people involved.
I hate to haggle, also. I feel that it takes some of the dignity out of the process. I am a professional, and I sure didn't feel like it when I am arguing over $100 with someone. I would just as soon give it up and let the customer 'win', so I could maintain some personal respect. Some people in my industry equate salesmanship to being able to negotiate with an iron fist. I wholeheartedly disagree. I equate salesmanship to being able to determine my customer's needs accurately, deliver on my promises, and bring value to the transaction.
Tomas - it seems rather unfortunate that you are a throwback. Unfortunate in that people have moved away from placing value on people when it comes to a transaction. Many of my Scion transactions go like you described, and it's days like that that I really love my job.
Oh, and as an aside, Buick (GM for that matter) shouldn't hate Consumer's Reports for spilling the beans. They should hate the executives that put more stock in incentives and rebates as opposed to building a decent car. ;)
