Anyone use synthetic???
10-22-2006, 07:45 PM
#142
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Originally Posted by phungy
5w30 for '05 and '06s
5w20 for '07s
5w20 for '07s
5w-20 for '06-07
5w-30 for '05.
"Applicable Vehicles: 2006 – 2007 model year Toyota and Scion vehicles.
Recommended Engine Oils: ILSAC GF–4 SAE 5W–20
This oil has been set as the Toyota genuine engine oil, starting in February 2006 for
the U.S. This oil is superior in terms of fuel economy, engine protection, and cold
starting performance."
10-23-2006, 01:01 AM
#144
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Originally Posted by vintage42
Originally Posted by teabox
So, I guess its ok if my 05 xB uses 5-20w? Toyota needs to make sense the first time around, lol.
It says use 5W-20 if your car was made after Feb 2006 and says 5W-20 on the filler cap.
If there needs to be a second time around, how should the TSB be clarified?
As to whether you can use 5W-20 in your 2005, of course you can. But normally you trust the vehicle manufacturer to recommend what they feel is the best grade of oil for each engine they make, and apparently there was a change in Toyota and Scion engines in mid-Feb 2006 associated with the recommendation of lower viscosity 5W-20 oil. Changes that could make use of such thinner oil might be better ring design, tighter cylinder clearances, an improved oil pump, etc. Maybe using 5W-20 in an older engine would result in an increase in oil consumption.
The article came out in March, the recommendation changed in Feb. The article covers ALL 06 and 07 engines, not those from Feb-forward.
ANY 06 - including those made in 05 that are 06's are covered.
Scott
10-23-2006, 01:28 AM
#145
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don't have impericle proof but i would imagine that the scion engines are the same from '04 on. i'd make a wager that the change is due to calculated fuel consumption reduction and the tax credits that would go along with making their product more oil friendly and less dependant on mideastern oil.
remember that to us an improvement of .5% increase in fuel economy would never be detectable multiplied over 500k units that makes a pretty big difference and since both the '06 and 07's are being sold as new and/or are being built they can get the tax benifits.
at any rate i use mobil1 and the mobil1 filter switched over at 43k if i recall
remember that to us an improvement of .5% increase in fuel economy would never be detectable multiplied over 500k units that makes a pretty big difference and since both the '06 and 07's are being sold as new and/or are being built they can get the tax benifits.
at any rate i use mobil1 and the mobil1 filter switched over at 43k if i recall
10-23-2006, 01:28 PM
#146
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Originally Posted by SciontCya
... The article came out in March, the recommendation changed in Feb. The article covers ALL 06 and 07 engines, not those from Feb-forward. ANY 06 - including those made in 05 that are 06's are covered....
NOTE:
The recommended viscosity grade for this oil differs according to vehicle model.
Use the recommended grade specified on the oil filler cap or in the Repair Manual
or Owner’s Manual for each vehicle.
If Toyota wanted the 5W-20 to be used in pre-Feb 2006 cars, the note would have said:
Note:
Use 5W-20 no matter if the filler cap says 10W-30.
10-23-2006, 06:29 PM
#147
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We don't know that, do we?
What we do know is that it says ALL, so I'll assume all is correct, as the dealer agreed with me.
Either way, my warranty won't be an issue with either one.
Both are acceptable.
Wasn't getting on your case - just raising the point that these things can be and are confusing.
Scott
What we do know is that it says ALL, so I'll assume all is correct, as the dealer agreed with me.
Either way, my warranty won't be an issue with either one.
Both are acceptable.
Wasn't getting on your case - just raising the point that these things can be and are confusing.
Scott
10-23-2006, 07:40 PM
#148
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Originally Posted by iyzmi
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/Performance_Gallery/2006_Performance_Gallery_Winners.aspx
There's tons of testomony's in there from people that have used the oil from 10-15k with no problems whatsoever. I know it's a Mobil run site but still, I don't see any reason for them to make it all up because if they did lie and people where harmng their cars they would loose more money then they made because people would just stop buying their products. I'll take some pics of the oil for you guys next year when I drain it.
There's tons of testomony's in there from people that have used the oil from 10-15k with no problems whatsoever. I know it's a Mobil run site but still, I don't see any reason for them to make it all up because if they did lie and people where harmng their cars they would loose more money then they made because people would just stop buying their products. I'll take some pics of the oil for you guys next year when I drain it.
People can change at whatever interval they want when using synthetic, it their car. Just use some common sense. If you drive in heavy stop and go traffic, live in cold winters, take 2 years to drive 10k miles, etc etc you might want to change your oil a little earlier because that just common sense. There is more than one variable when it comes to when to change your oil. Oil like Mobil 1 synthetics are designed to go 10k-15k miles without a glitch. I would assume though they were testing under ideal conditions. No turbo engines, SC, etc... MB, BMW, Audi all have 10-15k mile oil change intervals on syn, high performance models require more frequent changes. You want a shocker, my wife's New Beetle 2.0 non turbo bug recommends 10k intervals after 10k miles on dino oil, not even synthetic. So if people are freaking out about changing syn oil between 10-15k imagine how I felt about VW's recommendation with dino oil. The bottom line is it is cheap insurance to change your oil and if you do your own oil changes even using syn will cost less than 30. But today most people don't even keep their cars for 5 years so it really doesn't matter. For those that want to keep their cars until the bearings wear out then it might be worth their time to baby the car.
10-23-2006, 07:47 PM
#149
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Amsoil 0W/30 for me. First 2 oil changes were Mobil 1 5W/30, then change to Amsoil 0W/30. It's been about 15K and the engine idles much smoother than stock (after 6K it was quite rough), and engine temp. is a bit lower as noted by the needle.
Just my findings, so not saying it's what everyone should change to.
Just my findings, so not saying it's what everyone should change to.
10-23-2006, 07:50 PM
#151
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Oil manufacturers as well as car manufacturers feel a hard need to play to peoples sense of economy and oil usage. So coming out and saying thier car or oil can run on 10 - 15k intervals is great selling power. And hey, engine failure due to poor maintenance is hard to prove or disprove. The issues that would be attributed to it at those intervals would be well out of warranty, so what does the car company care? They dont. It wont cost them a dime down the road if your car only lasts 100k instead of 150k.
And as mentioned, its CHEAP insurance, you will ALWAYS benefit from overchanging your oil for the most part as far as reliability is concerned. So changing my Mobile 1 every 4k is cheap enough care for me. I do drive my cars till they die rather than trade them in every few years.. I like to actually own something and not make payments for a while. And even if I traded in or sold it, I dont want the buyer inheriting my bad maintenance, so either way I prefer to take care of them. Plus, when a potential buyer sees every reciept and record for every 4k interval oil change on synthetic, it is just more selling power.
And as mentioned, its CHEAP insurance, you will ALWAYS benefit from overchanging your oil for the most part as far as reliability is concerned. So changing my Mobile 1 every 4k is cheap enough care for me. I do drive my cars till they die rather than trade them in every few years.. I like to actually own something and not make payments for a while. And even if I traded in or sold it, I dont want the buyer inheriting my bad maintenance, so either way I prefer to take care of them. Plus, when a potential buyer sees every reciept and record for every 4k interval oil change on synthetic, it is just more selling power.
10-23-2006, 07:54 PM
#152
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^^Agreed. Amsoil claims a 25000 mile interval but I change mine every 4K. I don't trust the numbers. It's nice with synthetic that it can be stretched a bit over an interval that you do, but I would never let the oil stay in there for 25000. Not only do they not give a sh*t when they seel oil to you, but most manufacturers "forget" to tell you the life of the oil itself. Oil will break down on it's own without the help of your engine also. A lot of people don't know that but it's true.
10-26-2006, 03:26 PM
#154
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Originally Posted by vintage42
Originally Posted by web
... Oil will break down on it's own without the help of your engine also. A lot of people don't know that but it's true.
Petroleum oil begins to break-down almost immediately. A high quality synthetic, on the other hand, can last for many thousands of miles without any significant reduction in performance or protection characteristics. Synthetics designed from the right combination of basestocks and additives can last almost indefinitely with the right filtration system.
Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the nearly the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind.
10-26-2006, 03:31 PM
#155
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OXIDATION AND DEPOSITS
Oxidation is the most important form of chemical breakdown of a motor oil and its additives. The chemicals in a motor oil are continuously reacting with oxygen inside an engine. The effects of oxidation due to this reaction as well as the by-products of combustion produce very acidic compounds inside an engine. These acidic compounds cause corrosion of internal engine components, deposits, changes in oil viscosity, varnish, sludge and other insoluble oxidation products that can cause a performance and durability degradation of your engine over a period of time. The products of oxidation are less stable than the original base hydrocarbon molecular structure and as they continue to be attacked by these acidic compounds can produce varnish and sludge.
Oxidation is the most important form of chemical breakdown of a motor oil and its additives. The chemicals in a motor oil are continuously reacting with oxygen inside an engine. The effects of oxidation due to this reaction as well as the by-products of combustion produce very acidic compounds inside an engine. These acidic compounds cause corrosion of internal engine components, deposits, changes in oil viscosity, varnish, sludge and other insoluble oxidation products that can cause a performance and durability degradation of your engine over a period of time. The products of oxidation are less stable than the original base hydrocarbon molecular structure and as they continue to be attacked by these acidic compounds can produce varnish and sludge.
10-26-2006, 03:33 PM
#156
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This is why when you get an oil change at a shop or you go to a store and buy it, there are signs or employees that tell you to change your oil at 3000 miles OR 3 months. The 3 month time frame is for conventional, petroleum oil, and is extended with synthetics due to their different chemical make up and breakdown rate.
Hope all of this helps.
Hope all of this helps.
10-26-2006, 05:55 PM
#157
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Also remember, that all synthetics are not necesarrily the same. Synth oils ARE dino oil, 100%. Nothing is made in the lab per se. They simply take the components needed from dino oil to end up with a good, synth oil. So they basically take dino, and remove the part you really want and need, which leads to the things mentioned above. The depth at which they do this I am sure can vary quite a bit.
10-26-2006, 07:46 PM
#159
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Originally Posted by engifineer
Also remember, that all synthetics are not necesarrily the same. Synth oils ARE dino oil, 100%. Nothing is made in the lab per se. They simply take the components needed from dino oil to end up with a good, synth oil. So they basically take dino, and remove the part you really want and need, which leads to the things mentioned above. The depth at which they do this I am sure can vary quite a bit.
10-26-2006, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SciontCya
Originally Posted by engifineer
Also remember, that all synthetics are not necesarrily the same. Synth oils ARE dino oil, 100%. Nothing is made in the lab per se. They simply take the components needed from dino oil to end up with a good, synth oil. So they basically take dino, and remove the part you really want and need, which leads to the things mentioned above. The depth at which they do this I am sure can vary quite a bit.