mach5

A2 is the correct filter for the xa/xb and echo
and its true that the 2ZZ uses the A1 filter while the 1ZZ uses the A2 but thats not an options, its what it calls for
and FRAM is the worst filter ever.....
AND when did the 1.5L ever become a performance engine

go back to the dealer and tell them. they will just say sorry and if your lucky, you get a free oilchange

i don't work in parts but the parts guys have assured me that even if there are 2 choices the computer will even tell you to use "that" one instead of the "other" one
"that" and "other" being the filters

Scott17

Sorry if I came off as a tardo to you, but I sorta do know a little about oil filters and, in particular, Toyota oil filters and such. And I didn't acquire this knowledge by reading one too many issues of Hot Rod or J.C. Whitney catalogs, I did it the hard way and actually went to school and became a Toyota Certified Master Diagnostic Technician( as well as an A&P). I am just curious as to where these deficiencies in the stock filter are cropping up? Do you think the Toyota engineers who designed this filter were lacking in smarts? If a factory reccommended oil change interval is 5k, do you think the filter would be completely plugged and bypassing at 3K? Seeing that Toyotas are some of the longest-lasting cars on the road would somewhat reinforce this idea. Also it is not impossible to know if your filter is plugged. Aircraft mechanics have been checking since before you were born. There is a nifty tool like a can opener that cuts the top off the filter and the element is inspected at each oil change for metal particles and such. Also, if you really think about it, where would all that particulate matter come from? If it came from your engine, 10 oil filters in line wouldn't let that engine live! The one thing I have learned over the years is a ____ty car is really easy to improve, whereas a well made car is much harder to improve. Sorry to call you out on this one, but you really should have known........~~~~~~~scott

Tamago

woo hoo for your certification..

i had a certified toyota mechanic tell me that because i lowered my car, a bracket on my exhaust manifold broke..

apon further inspection, some tard at NUMMI had tack welded it insted of bolting it..

and guess who found THAT out..

the CERTIFIED mechanic? NO! little ol me..

being certified means only one thing.. you passed with a 79% or better..

i'm not knocking your education. i'm just not understanding why you think a longer (yet the same diameter) filter is harmful..

i studied industrial filtration for a semester in college... and i'll tell you this now, automotive filtration is absolute crap. find me an automotive filter that can catch 2micron ABSOLUTE particles, and store them until the filter change...

ain't gonna happen..

sorry to call you out, MR certified.. but.. i know a little about filtration and oil analysis..

Guest

DAM, glad I changed the title and my view on the bigger filter! Back to exhaust mods for me!

mach5

then do whatever you want , i guess you laugh at doctors and teachers to right?


a bigger filter wont destroy your filter, its just not ment for it so harm can be caused. if the parts computer doesn't call for it, then DO NOT USE IT. this isn't monster garage where you can just fabricate and do what the hell you want. it a car from the FACTORY that has specifications to it.
just don't go telling people that its perfectly ok when you aren't 100% sure which you aren't.
always be cautious

i guess all techs are morons and are wrong because i haven't met one yet that would agree that using a bigger filter than specified by factory is perfectly ok
i aint no master tech but i'm no moron either

Tamago

i've run the oversized filter on all 4 toyota's i've owned.

please explain in detail how a bigger filter could be HARMFUL to your engine..

IN DETAIL

Scott17

OK Einstein, let me get you up to speed. First off, figure out what a Master Diagnostic Technician is. A CERTIFIED Toyota mechanic is not an MDT. Next, have a look at the first post and the picture it contains. The filter on the right is of larger DIAMETER than the stock filter on the left. The sealing gasket is also of larger diameter and will not always seal to the smaller filter pad of the engine. If the gasket fails, oil will leak out and oil pressure will be gone. Did they teach you what no oil pressure will do in college? The filter you are referring to comes on the new Camry 4-cyl. and is indeed the same diameter, just a little taller. It will do no harm at all, but also it will provide no benifit if you change your at anything close to a normal interval. Now that we have that out of the way, I'm real curious about automotive filtration being ____. How do you account for the longevity of properly maintained cars these days? Maybe you are smarter than the engineers at Toyota. I hear they are hiring. What does a filter that filters below about 5 micrins accomplish? Exactly what lubricated part in the engine has a clearance less than 5 microns? If the clearance is greater than the largest particle allowed past the filter, what is the problem? Again , a novel solution to a non-existant problem. You should actually be more worried about your seat wearing out before your engine these days if you maintain your car properly. You really should have known.......~scott

mach5

can we all say...
WORD

Back_In_Black_xA

The Scions take the A2 filter which is for the smaller 4 cylinders like the Corolla, Echo, etc. There is the A1 filter for the bigger 4s like the Camry, Solara, etc.

The A1 and A2 are interchangeable really, only difference is the A1 is a little longer. But thats not to say that you should.

The filter you have pictured above is for V6 engines, I would not use that, the seal is not the same.

I'm a Toyota Tech, I stare at those things all day long.

Just because the dealer put it on doesn't mean its right, most of the people that change oil for a living are retards.

As for all the guys claiming to be Toyota Certified are you T-TEN guys?

mach5

yes sir

i'm a T-Ten graduate
i still don't know jack compared to alot of the techs but i do know the basics

not gonna sit here and try to act cool like some of the people on here saying they know OH SO much

Guest

Regular auto tech here. :D Nothin special, just a muffler man, with a motor back pressure knowledge.

Back_In_Black_xA

I just finished my first year. I don't know everything I still learn stuff all the time but where you went didn't you work at a dealership 1/2 the time?

phatboy

I'm not being a smart ___, just posing a query.
I attended a lecture(for lack of a better word) by Wix filters, one of the leaders of aftermarket, and OEM filter supppliers, and, according to them, their Gold filter(as sold by NAPA stores) filters particles as small as 3 microns. Does this mean that one of the leaders of filter manufacture is selling people what they do not need? Is it not good preventive maintenance to get as much junk out of an engine as possible, no matter the size?
Secondly, if a filter has the correct threads, sealing gasket, and anti-drainback valve as OEM specified, would not a larger filtering media, i.e longer, larger diameter filter, help trap particles that a smaller filter may let by, or may result in clogging of the filter and run through the bypass valve, and back into the engine.
I have used larger filters on most engines that I have owned, and will continue to do so, unless you can provide information that would inconclusively prove otherwise.
Again, I am not trying to start trouble. I, however, do not understand your position in this discussion, and would like clarification.

Thanks
Joe

Scott17

MDT here, I figure I'm the guy you rere referring to that "knows OH SO much". After graduating college with a BS in physics, an AAS in aviation technology, getting an A&P license, ASE master certification with L1(advanced engine performance), and Toyota Master Diagnostic Technician certification, and a few more years of experience than I care to admit to, I'm comfortable stating that I know at least a LITTLE. Definately not everything, but the most important part, I know who to ask to find out. T-TEN is a great way to start and I wish it was available when I was starting out. It sure would have been cheaper! Sometimes it's hard to not respond to people who are passing along improper information as if it was fact, albeit unknowingly. I have access to all of Toyotas technical publications and can share them with anyone that needs them. No need to argue about mechanical issues when the facts are readily available if you know where to find them. Remember, reasonable people,equally informed, seldom disagree.......~~~~~~~~~scott

Scott17

Joe, Thats a good question! First, let me give you some general good mechanical advice; When researching any mechanical subject, avoid biased sources! While Wix is indeed a quality filter, a filter manufacturer is not going to give you the downside to a product they are trying to sell. Also "independant labritory tests' funded by the manufacturer tested are highly suspect. The industry standard testing facility for motor oils and related products is the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). Quality oils carry the SAE rating right on the can. They are a source of more test results and general oil related information than you could read in a year. Any college library should have bound volumes of SAE reference material. As for increasing filter media area, it will definately do no harm, but the question is; will it do any good? Toyota didn't design its' oil filter to be too small or not be all that the engine needs. My question would be where would enough particulate matter come from that could clog (and therefore have oil bypass the filter) ANY available filter? If there was that much junk in your engine you would surely have much bigger problems to contend with! If the filter media of the stock oil filter is plenty, would more be better? Sometimes more is just more. As for the filter efficiency, think of it this way, bearings are designed to support an oil film and in normal use have no metal to metal contact. Since bearing clearances are measured in thousandths of an inch, lets make it bigger to illustrate the point. Say you have a clearance between 2 bearing surfaces seperated by a cushioning film of oil a foot thick. Then imagine a marble floating around in that foot thick film of oil. Would it have any effect on those 2 bearing surfaces? This is roughly to scale of a 5 micron particle in a .003 bearing clearance. Now suppose I had this neat filter that could filter those marbles out and only let through pieces the size of a BB. Did we gain anything? The filter that filters smaller particles will have more resistance to flow (not a good thing on startup) and therefore will NEED more surface area to allow the proper flow rate. When is all said and done what has been gained? Bottom line is if you change your oil and filter regularly than all of this is really a non-issue. Thats what I would reccommend.~~~~~~scott

phatboy

Now, that makes sense. Like sucking soda through a swizzle stick instead of a regular straw.

I yield to the superior arguement!

Joe

bB_Local_Boy

I finally changed my oil after 9000 miles. (I have the paperwork to prove that this was my first oil change.)

Now, I purchased my box in January, I drive slowly and rarely do I rev higher than 4000 rpm, and like I said, I just changed my oil today at 9360 miles. And I didn't change the oil filter either, just a drain and refill.

Guest

Thats gonna change in teh next few days isn't it!! All of a suden we are gonna get power crazy at the scion central aren't we local boy! :twisted:

bB_Local_Boy

Why? Did my JDM ground wire kit come in already?





hater. :twisted:

Guest

Yeah and your sythetic TRD blinker fluid came in too!! And your high performance JDM muffler bearing!!