nhiiq

Okay, already been covered... this guy needs to quit _____ing and do his job.

Customers you want to try and learn more about the car they drive should be able to do so... And if they feel they have a problem related to a TSB they should feel free to research and mention it to the service dept.

Now most people do their best to learn about their cars, but they are not trained techs so of course they might not really know what the talking about. Your job as a tech includes using your own knowledge and skills to fix the problem.


This tech needs to work on his spelling.

Sorry to restate everything... but people who _____ about their jobs ____ me off, they need to deal with it or quit.

mrtc

Agreed - the point being that the _____y service tech was using that as an example of how supposedly cheap the tC is.

mrtc

Okay, now I get the picture - and the reason that guys sometimes take in their car three and four times before the problem is "found." You get paid extra for diagnosis. Good for you - bad for the consumer.

Okay, that IS true...

Oops. Full o' crap again. And you were doing so well...

Seriously - is a bad attitude required to get a job as a service tech? Cos I know a guy named Nick who might be able to use a job...

George

I see. A problem isn't a problem until the customer can reproduce it on demand. Sorry, but that isn't the way many problems manifest themselves.

That is why professional mechanics are worth the rates they charge. They are capable of diagnosing and repairing intermittant problems. They do this by carefully listening to the customer, checking the vehicle, and through that "6th sense" that is only developed through long experience. Most of these professional mechanics started at dealers but have moved on to become independents with bigger pay and less bureaucratic nonsense.

OTOH, many "technicians" can't diagnose a problem until their noses are rubbed in it. Even when confronted with a known problem (like the CD skip) they cannot seem to figure out that the solution is to just do what the TSB says. The just write the company line ("cannot reproduce") and hope that the next car is something less challenging.

You can detect a software error visually? Even a superficial skim of the TSB reveals that the problem is a known software defect in the head unit.

Love it. It's an intermittant problem, so you're going to swap in a "known good" CD to see what? The unit works 99.9% of the time!

Of course. Just like the "technician" that worked on my car, even thought the TSB number was written on the service order. After all, Toyota just issues TSBs to annoy the "technicians". There can't be any useful information in them!

Great, so why not do it right the first time? Instead, you're going to force the customer to make another appointment to resolve the problem, all because you refuse to believe that a customer might actually know what they are talking about. This is a great way to make sure that customers stay away. "Technicians" don't like come-backs, but customers despise them.

Funny how Toyota advertisments don't include the phrase "These are cheap cars, so expect them to have problems."

Actually, Rollers aren't all that reliable. However, Rolls mechanics do make house calls.

<"dumb customer" story snipped>

Wait a minute! Now a car's defects are the customer's fault? One dumb customer with a beeper and suddenly every customer is dumb.
If you don't want people to think that you are whining, then don't whine!

How many people work a "normal 9-5 job"? Darned few. We all have our time wasted, some by dumb customers, others by stubborn "technicians".

That I do. When they deserve it

Actually, I already paid for them in the purchase price of the car. Now the only problem is getting that committment honored without red tape worthy of Joseph Heller.

George

MaximuS

For real! this post gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling about taking my Xb to the dealer for service... NOT!

For you techs here, there is something called customer service, it looks like some of you skipped that part in your training. You deal with customers, get over it!
The right thing to do is mention to the customer from the begining that the problem might not be the TSB alone and that only the tech can pin point the problem.

To me the problem is with the service advisors and the poor attitude techs seem to have.

TOAST3R

i think you are all blowing this out of proportion. hes just stating that when you take it in for a rattle or anything. dont be specific and say what exactly needs to be fixed. just tell them you hear a rattle and where its coming from.

if you tell them an exact thing to fix to solve the problem, they will only fix that. and they arent going to search for other problems. and what you think it mightve been rattling might not have been.

but because you said fix some exact thing, they cant look for the rattle then because it wasnt what you thought.

Gardiner

I once dropped a car off at the dealer before they opened. On the slip I wrote "Engine pinging at WOT" and put the slip in the box. Later that day they called and said to come pick up my car. When I got there the service writer told me they did not know what "WOT" meant so they did not fix my car.

empleh

well, i agree with toaster on this one. the whole point of the rant is to educate us. it makes sense....most of you people are saying that everyone deals with people wasting there time....but most of you probably get paid either hourly or salary. so if a customer comes in and wastes your time, it doesn't matter, you're getting paid regardless. now on the other hand, if this mechanic wastes his time, he doesn't get paid......i'm sure if they docked your pay for an hour of wasting time with a know-it-all customer, most of us would be pretty upset. most customers are alright, he's just talking about one in a handfull. i don't think he meant every customer who comes through....i think he was being specific to a certain kind. comission ruins a lot of stuff......

Ashe_WCM

I just took my car in to get the factory alarm fixxed. for some reason a double pulse wouldn't open all the doors. I go in on a tuesday they look at it for 2 hours and then tell me "We have to get in touch with someone from the company to give us an idea of what may be wrong. these cars are so new we dont have alot of exp. working on them" Okay I'll bite. I reshedule for the next wednsday.
Come in at 9am the next weds. 2pm rolls around they finally tell me my car is done. for 5 hours I sat in the little waiting room. looking though the window at my car. during that time a guy was in for 15 minutes when they first pulled my car into the lift bay. then for 5 minutes just before they were done. the rest of the time they would go into the car for about 15 seconds and then leave again. A major waste of time but oh well they fixed it.

then I go to get in my car. first thing i see is where they left the doors open and touching the vertical beams on the lift while they get in and out. both sides now have scratches at the same spot from where it looks like it was sanded with 50grit paper. then on the rear drivers door at the front edge is a large scratch and chip (which i believe came from a certain mechanics huge keyring on his belt) the first thing the mechanic said when i pointed these out was "Those were there when we got the car" to which i pointed out the fact that the visual inspection the shop manager did did not mention these obvious flaws in the paint yet it did mention "minor rock damage" to my hood (tiny chips you can barely see). The manager said he would take care of the paint damage.

I understand that this car does not belong to this person. however as far as i can tell he didn't take 2 seconds to make sure that they wouldn't happen. I know I used to park cars for a summer job. and while none of those cars were mine and i couldn't be held liable for minor damage sustained thru normal operation ect. I still tried my best to not even leave a wrinkle in the seat. while alot of it was b/c I worked for tips. a good part of it was simple basic respect for other people.

UnFocused

Well here is a reply from the guys original post...

"The sunroof pop TSB
Ok, Id like to apologize for ranting in my last post. The reason for the whole outburst is that Tc's are rattle traps, and they probably always will be. Id really like to take care of people's problems but when things are set up for failure from the very beginning the outcome is never good. I have had several people ask me why I do not go ahead and fix the problem anyway, and the answer to that is simple. The reason I do not go ahead and fix it is because I would not get paid for doing anything other than the TSB the customer mentioned because the warranty lady will consider it a add on repair, and again, this is my job and in order to pay my bills I must get paid for the work I do. Would you go to work and clock out at 2pm and continue to work till 5pm for free?

Since the release of the sunroof pop TSB it seems that our shop has been swamped with people complaining of a sunroof pop / rattle / crackle and saying they know of this TSB and wanting this TSB preformed. Where I get so upset with this whole deal is that, like I said, it has been my experience that only about 25% of the vehicle actually have this problem. That percentage comes form working on 2 - 4 Tc's a day for various reasons, and during test drives I have started to take my own personal tally of how many cars have this noise, and it is rather distinctive once you have heard it a few times.

Im going to let you all in on a easy way to tell if this is your actual problem. It is easy and only takes a pocket screw driver, a torx bit and 15 minutes.

1. Completely open your sunroof and go the drivers side of your sunroof and look at the side railing.

2. Note a 2 piece springing plastic rail that runs the full side length of your sunroof, this rail is attached at the front by a torx bit.

3. Take out the torx screw and gently push the rail in untill you can see and have access to a philips head screw below the mounting point of this rail. You will have to see and access this screw at an angle because the front sunroof mounting frame will be directly above it.

4. Check to see if this screw it tight, use common sence, if you use enough strength with this screw of course you will tighten it more or back it off, your looking to see if it is completely loose, as in requires no effort at all to turn the screw. The screw threads are fine and the metal it screws into is alumnium so it is only supposed to be so tight or else you strip out something.

5. If screw is tight the sunroof pop TSB does NOT apply to your vehicle, the cause of your noise is something else. If the screw is loose then just LEAVE IT BE and set an appointment to get the noise fixed. Since the screw sits at an angle you will probably round off the head tightening it down, I have a special screwdriver to get between the sunroof frame and screw to tighten it for you. But when you set the appointment PLEASE dont say "hey I want the sunroof TSB preformed"........... Just go to the Service Advisor and say you have a rattle from here, and point to the drivers front corner of the sunroof."

Back_In_Black_xA

Back_In_Black_xA

I don't know any Toyota dealerships that offer salary for techs, it's all commission. The only people who make hourly pay as in you are there for an hour and you get paid are the guys who change oil and rotate tires, not guys who fix real problems. Time is money when your a tech. This is one reason I don't plan to stay in this buisness for that long, I want a job with reliable income, not "sorry times are slow, heres a check for $100." Thats not cutting it.

And I will be the first to say I'm not a people person. I got in this buisness to work on cars since cars don't talk. But I guess I forgot their owners do.

Back_In_Black_xA

Now that is BS right there. People should know better than to wear any items on their belts or anything that will scrape the car. Sometimes lifts will have foam padding to protect the door, but sometimes they do not. People who work on the cars need to be aware of this. Personally I think any shop is stupid not to put some foam down to protect the doors.

At our place we have the valets write up all the scratches and everything on a car. I don't think we've ever really had a problem with anyone saying we scratched up their car but I suppose it happens.

I hope they fixed your car to your satisfaction.

Back_In_Black_xA

Also let me sort of correct any notions some of you might have. First of all I do not think all customers are dumb, most are pretty nice people and are willing to play ball. However like everything in life it is the minority that ruin it for the majority.

Here are 4 specific stories that stick out in my head of customers who are just completely nuts and need to be shot...

-My friend was changing oil on a Celica one time, it was the newer body style Celica. This guy had some kind of Kenwood radio in it and it was the kind that folds up into it self or something like that. Well my friend pulled in the guys car and did the oil change and everything and had the car out in 15 minutes. Later on the guy comes back and starts accusing my friend of stealing the radio out of his car. So my friend was of course like what the hell are you talking about. So they get the shop foreman and everything and go out to see what this guy is talking about. Well the radio was not stolen it was right inside the car but it was folded up inside itself. Well the customer was too dumb to know how to even operate his own radio and soon after they figured out what you push to make the thing fold back out and all was good. But all this BS and accusations of theft because your not smart enough to operate your own radio?

-One day some woman brought in her Sienna for service of some kind. She probably had one of the lower models Siennas which has less features. So whoever is working on it fixes it and sends it out. Well later on the woman comes back in screaming about how when she came in her car had power seats and now someone had installed manual seats into the car. I mean WTF is this woman thinking, that is ridiculous. A quick check of the database shows exactly what features came on every car and her car did not have power seats on it. Not exactly sure what ever became of this but I hope they showed this person the door.

-One time the guy in the bay next to me had an Avalon. On the ticket it said "after it rains, the driver side fender stays wet after the rest of the car had dried." Does this woman want us to change physics or something in order for her whole car to dry at once. The fact that someone would even complain about something as ridiculous as this makes me really doubt the intellegence of some members of the human race. Once again I'm sure they slapped CND on that bad boy and sent it home. This is a prime example of time wasting.

-There is some crazy broad who comes in with a piece of ____ old ___ 80s Tercel. The car is literally falling apart and she brings it in for things like "door rattling." Well its easy enough to figure out that the 16 year old door panel is in horrible condition and falling apart and it will take a new door panel to fix it. So I write that up but than the foreman tells me do not recommend anything on the car. This is because this woman was one time banned from our dealership because she is nuts. Any time we tell her car it needs something she starts bursting into tears crying and throws a fit and blames us for it. She was banned but kept coming back. So because she is nuts her car is falling apart because no one is really allowed to fix it because she will cry and throw a fit.

So I really hope some of you guys can now understand the BS we have to deal with. Just because you guys are not crazy and maybe are trying to help doesn't mean that all customers are. Some are genuinely nut jobs who would be locked up and shipped off to an island if I was in charge. It is those people who make us dread signing in and seeing what possible nightmare is up there for us to deal with.

George

mrtc

Maybe that IS Nick...

Back_In_Black_xA

Probably because for one I never had a car come in with this problem, and second I have a 2005 and it only effects 2004s so I have no reason to look up TSBs for no reason unless it applies to my car.

RipThe5y5tem

Well, I tried seeing if the TSB applies to my tC...
and I broke the F*CKING head off of the torx screw in doing so!!!
(It took little effort I might add)



Now I have to go down to the stealership to have the problem fixed...
This will teach me for EVER trying things myself...

Hopefully my warrenty will take care of this one...

Back_In_Black_xA

Just say something isn't right with the sunroof and let them find the broken bolt head. They will probably think the sunroof broke it or something and just replace the whole thing.

Ashe_WCM

Nog, dont admit to fault. I had the cheap plastic rear seat lock release break on me when I was trying to take my gearbag out(the strap got caught on it) I told the shop it came off in my hand when i went to lower the seat.