xSTANDxSTRONGx

Well that's what they usually break down to, it's rediculous....you get a group of "adults" and we can't discuss anything because as soon as someone says something that "you" agree with "you" jump into BS retaliations.

"you" is the generic, not specific to anyone on the thread

seattledave

i'm talking about clinically depressed. Everyone gets depressed. I had been prescribed a few drugs til a doctor finally settled on 1800mg a day of lithium, for four years all while in therapy. Besides making me and everyone else prescibed it a zombie, it didn't work.

by my second or 3rd trip on lsd, my depression was all but gone, I had realised how petty materialism is, how weak people can be with their emotions, what really mattered in life. I'm not talking about what people come to understand when they get older, or more mature. I'm talking aobut a self-realisation that people who haven't done lsd don't understand. Just like MDMA, it was/is used as a therapeutic means. But it's also fun as hell for the smarter set, and being it's not-addictive, i'm not sure there's much harm in it.

again, I'm not sure how people who haven't done it, can even comment.

When you guys talk about pot, and only pot ruining a family's life, that sounds ignorant. How? Because someone in a household likes to smoke pot, and that person's wife or mother has some sort of religious conviction against it, and they choose to argue about it? Sure some people shouldn't be doing drugs, driving, joining the army, being around little kids, doing alot of things that responsible people can, and do, do all the time.

and again, when people talk about "doing drugs" like they're all about the same, again that's just more hypocritical thinking.

seattledave

PLEASE please point to a url, book, scientific magazine whatever that has this study.
I know you, just like myself "heard" about this from "people" or "friends of my cousin's boyfriend".

Just like "after you do 11 hits of acid, you're clinically insane"

This is an urban myth, like AIDS instantly dies when it hits air (when most people don't know it has lived 14 days in petri dishes).

See, I've done mdma a good 150+times, lsd 1000 times(minimum 3k hits or "doses") since i was 14.

You'd think i'd be in some canatonic state after all that, I mean with all the holes in my brain, huh? and probably think you're "smarter" too.

jsa3mm

This article is about the invalid "studies" that MDMA puts holes in your brain:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma...oxicity3.shtml

seattledave

Thanks for the link. Hopefully sXe's will become more informed.

captainlaziness

Ok, it may be possible that you were able to get out of your depression by means of LSD, but for 99% of people taking any sort of hallucinogen while depressed is a very bad idea. Set and setting are extremely important when consuming something like LSD, Psilocybin, DMT ect. Typically, a hallucinogen is going to aggrevate the depressed person's mind set leading to a 'bad trip' and in extreme cases a post traumatic stress disorder.

Have you heard of flashbacks? Contrary to popular belief, flaskbacks aren't caused by residual hallucinogens in a person's system. They are brought on by similar psychological or enviromental situations. "Acid flashbacks" are the same phenomenon as what WWII soldiers called "shell shock." It's a psychological response to a previous extreme event. A flashback can be a good thing. You can relive some of those wonderfull, insightfull thoughts and feelings that you experienced during a good trip. On the other hand, a flashback can be a nightmare. Flashbacks generally occur to someone who has had "that" trip, you know, the one that makes you never want to touch hallucinogens again.

Having a bad set (being depressed) is almost always going to result in a bad, bad, miserable time. I agree with you that these substances can be used in a manner to mitigate depression. LSD and psychedelic mushrooms, when used in a clinical or religious context with the aid of a psychologist or holy person (priest, witch doctor, shaman whatever) can be very beneficial. However, a depressed person who has limited or no experience with the mind state induced by these substances will, almost without exception, be worse off after consumtion.

These "drugs" aren't toys. Sure, you can eat a handfull of mushrooms and laugh 'till you cry and have a wonderfull time. But in doing so, you are de-sanctifying and abusing the power that lies within them. I'm a firm believer that entheogenic (generating the divine within) substances should be used constructively and not just to have a good time. These substances (Psilocybin, psylocin, DMT) have been used for many, many centuries as a eucharist of sorts, allowing common man to commune with the Dieties. To me, tripping for the hell of it is disgracefull and immoral.

You're correct about LSD and mushrooms being harmless in a pysical sense. LSD, DMT, Psilocyn, Psilocybin and related compounds are essentially harmless to the human body. It is the psychological danger that is very real. Hallucinogens can aggrevate and/or trigger latent psychological disorders such as schizophrenia. The risk of long term psychological damage is very real, and my earlier statements about flashbacks is a good example of what can happen.

Am I saying don't do them? No. I'm just saying that one should understand the dangers that come with the territory. I don't go freeclimbing because of the inherent dangers involved, but I'm not going to tell someone not to do it because I'm afraid to do it.

I also agree with you about all drugs being the same. That is just a close-minded, fear driven opinion instilled by our government and religious leaders.

teamben158

Can you post a link from an actual credible, nonbiased source, not a website that supports the use of hallucinogins?

captainlaziness

http://www.nativeamericanchurch.com/

jsa3mm

I'll try:
http://leshengliu.com/Drug%20Publica...g%20Myths.html
http://www.maps.org/media/mtvclarify.html
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shul...brainholes.htm
http://www.mdma.net/misc/ecstasy-mdma.html

I am in no way condoning drug use of any kind. I just want people to have the correct information. Whether it be what they want to hear or what they would rather live without knowing. I do not use XTC or other illegal drugs. I smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol that's about as far as I go when it comes to being "Serrated Edge".

seattledave

of course i've heard about flashbacks, not sure if you read, I've tripped 1000+ in alittle more than 13+years. I can sometimes put myself in a state of "remembering the feeling" when i listen to certain music, but i can put a smell inside my mouth and nose and taste it too, just by thinking about it. Most people's exeprience meeting/knowing/hearing about someone who does lsd is actually some unresponsible crackhead who has tried lsd a few times and is probably crazy.

Personally I think "Flashbacks" are mental breakdowns, whether from anxiety or depression. True, flashbacks may occur, I have encountered a visual hallucination for a couple seconds(like a flash of light occuring within 5% of vision). And yes, there are bad trips, but not anything you can't/don't control. I had one a few times on lsd, where I thought about my mom leaving me as a young child and for about an hour I wept and was very depressed. But I had been more depressed when i was a young child on lithium and therapy. I would have stayed in my bad trip, until someone said "Dave, you're putting yourself in a bad trip, get over it, come hang out with us"...know what? I realised i was, and talked myself out of it in about a minute, saying "what the **** am i doing, this is stupid". that was my bad trip, being emotionally vunerable, and running with the feeling of being depressed(like SOOO many people already do). If you've seen dane cook's vicious circle dvd...."I did my best, I did my best, I did my best...", like that.

and to say drugs aren't toys, for me, that's exactly what they are, and they should be for people. They are meant to be used like a toy, not abused like an addiction. They're not some sort of coping mechanism, they are a fun ride or toy for me and my brain to play in. Like most guys who grew up and read comic books, sci-fi, and have an overactive imagination I WANT SUPERPOWERS. Now, I know I'm not going to get them for real. But I have them for a few hours on lsd.
I'm also atheist, so I know this life is it.
I know I don't transcend this body and get enlightenment and the ability to know all and fly, like believers of an afterlife think, but on lsd i can fly, change reality, do anything i want just lying in my bed.

I've got a wife, a child. I know how awesome having your first son born after you've not slept for 3 days in a hospital. How beautiful and life altering it is. But am i going to pretend lsd/mdma aren't like they are.

You've talked alot about lsd, the usual things you read about it, have you done it?

Also sex. If you've had sex on lsd, and only lsd, you know wtf im talking about. I don't care what if you think you're madly in love with your first time on your wedding night.

And anyone who's candy-flipped with their significant other, you can't honestly say you've been closer or more honest and open with each other.

captainlaziness

Yes I have done LSD (among other things). And I too went through the "oohh pretty colors, weee this is fun!" stage of it. And yes, I had a hell of a great time too. :D The thing is, after doing a lot of reading and reseach on the subject, my opinion towards hallucinogens has matured. I've gained a respect for these things that I didn't have when I started out...which is OK.

Believe me, I'm all for experiementation. I just think that after a certain point one should use these substances for something important, be it self reflection, spiritual enlightenment, psychotherapy, or even to create art, not just for sh*ts and giggles. Tripping at a party may well be fun, but to me, it's a waste of a perfect opportunity to plunge into the depths of human consciousness.

Personally, I think there's more in here <points to head> than what's out there. Maybe I just did too much acid....

seattledave

I guess for me, every trip includes "self reflection, spiritual enlightenment, psychotherapy", i'm not sure I can't do all those things when on it. and as a graphic artist professionally, i do like to think it helps with some of my art i create, as I usually make art that's best appreciated in "that mindset". But it is a toy, and I do it for fun.

When I do it with friends, all we do is talk about life, the world, what lies past it. It's for no real reason though, as we're not changing the world.

I've experimented all to hell with it, taking acid right before i fall asleep, for it to impact my dream state, or unconsious somehow (though i usually wake drenched in sweat, not sure of what's going on).

If I did it for a certain important reason, like to make myself more creative or as a way to enlighten myself, why would I not ever stop doing it?

kiss_kiss_kill

HEY! HOW ABOUT WE ALL LOVE EACH OTHER, ACCEPT EACH OTHERS OPINIONS & GET ALONG! SOUND LIKE A PLAN?!............k, good.

captainlaziness

Sounds good. But for the record, I wans't arguing or flaming.

scionofPCFL

says the chick with the name: "kiss_kiss_kill"

captainlaziness

^^Lolz :D

tC4italy

yeah...

no one was fighting

xSTANDxSTRONGx

"no one was fighting"

Surprisingly, with all the stuff ppl have been saying, I'm glad that this hasen't turned into a flame fest, it's been a nice debate.

kiss_kiss_kill

My 2 kisses cancel it out though.

I <3 everyone.

Skeletor

seattle dave knows like bo knows.