Any Mormon Members?
11-17-2005, 03:09 AM
#101
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Ibiera, LA
Posts: 479
I am the only one, true god!! Praise me and do what i say or else something very bad will happen to you!!!
11-17-2005, 04:52 AM
#102
Senior Member
Scion Justice League of America
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,594
Ohhh... pulled back into the mix....
I was 19 when I travelled..... served as a missionary, just like the LDS guys, but for a different cause...
I started in Mexico, spent six months in the Caribbean, then 2 months in uruguay, 3 in argentina, 3 in Brazil and a few in Ghana, Africa...
I was 19 just like they were and not the most well versed in either faith, but learned an immense amount....
You have chosen to rationalize your faith upon its own merits, rather than to look at YOUR scripture and see what the reality of the teachings truly are...
It comes to a point where I am just like "COME ON".... Look at the surrounding verses, compare them to history and the whole of the scriptures... I could accept that the translations are fallible, because they were translated by men, but the same translation YOUR church accepts as their accepted translation contains the SAME CONTEXT which I discussed, how can you deny that reality, you can't really interpret the whole chapter differently.... YOU CANNOT RATIONALIZE AROUND CONTEXT by saying, despite what the context of the verse says, I am going to chose to believe something different based on what I feel God is telling me.... He told you in the first place in the Biblical text...
That is why I say it usually ends here.... Cause each and every LDS missionary got to this point and said the same thing.... Rather than facing the context of these verses and judging them by their merits, they copped out....
What you really need to do is to seriously look at the submitted verses and chapters, examine the argument and pull yourself out of your world-view for a moment...
I did when exploring Mormonism, and could not face the facts that context was consistently ignored and the only rationalization that I was ever given was "it's about the feeling you get", what do YOU believe is right.... or "It's about interpretation".... when they could never interpret the context to match the single verse..which you MUST, how can you not?
Thus lies the danger.... refusing to analyse and critique your OWN faith to see if it holds true...
-------------------------------
Biblical teachings about women being subservent to men, are AGAIN, taken QUICKLY out of context.... read the verse after it tells women to obey their husbands.... it tells HUSBANDS to love your wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.... I ask you, "Which is harder" and "Which is more important" the mans role, or the womans.... If a women had a man who loved her more than Christ loved the church, why wouldn't she obey him, as he had every one of her best interests in mind and would sacrifice even himself in love for her... Tell me how that is controversial.... IF he doesn't fulfill that role, things could go horribly wrong and get distorted and messed up.... that is why the CONTEXT must be looked at....
Sacrifice is the CORE of the whole scripture... after Adam and Eve sinned, they were required to sacrifice the best and cleanest animals to account for their sin.... this is true throughout the entire old testament, and even from that first day, God told them that a perfect sacrifice would come, that would account for all sin... Referred to as the "Lamb who was slain".... That way Christ.... prophesied in the OT, fulfilled in the NT... this made animal sacrifice not necessary anymore as followed in Christ's teachings... That is why we don't do that anymore, along with MANY OT laws, as Christ taught that they were part of the covenant and the new shall come, which it did upon his death and resurrection.... Remember, this is included in Your King James Bible as well....
Circumcision was part of the old law, in which God passed on to the land of Israel to keep them clean and holy.... It's origin is because of the fact that an uncircumcised male in those times was much more likely to receive infection and this was a law to protect against that.... also eating pork and not meat with blood in it were also OT laws, part of the the OLD COVENANT with Israel which christ declared done upon his death and resurrection...
You said, "The bible talks heavily about women being subservient to men, sacrificing animals, and circumcision, however does that mean that we should do those things?"
See that answer above....
Where does this not make sense?
I was 19 when I travelled..... served as a missionary, just like the LDS guys, but for a different cause...
I started in Mexico, spent six months in the Caribbean, then 2 months in uruguay, 3 in argentina, 3 in Brazil and a few in Ghana, Africa...
I was 19 just like they were and not the most well versed in either faith, but learned an immense amount....
You have chosen to rationalize your faith upon its own merits, rather than to look at YOUR scripture and see what the reality of the teachings truly are...
It comes to a point where I am just like "COME ON".... Look at the surrounding verses, compare them to history and the whole of the scriptures... I could accept that the translations are fallible, because they were translated by men, but the same translation YOUR church accepts as their accepted translation contains the SAME CONTEXT which I discussed, how can you deny that reality, you can't really interpret the whole chapter differently.... YOU CANNOT RATIONALIZE AROUND CONTEXT by saying, despite what the context of the verse says, I am going to chose to believe something different based on what I feel God is telling me.... He told you in the first place in the Biblical text...
That is why I say it usually ends here.... Cause each and every LDS missionary got to this point and said the same thing.... Rather than facing the context of these verses and judging them by their merits, they copped out....
What you really need to do is to seriously look at the submitted verses and chapters, examine the argument and pull yourself out of your world-view for a moment...
I did when exploring Mormonism, and could not face the facts that context was consistently ignored and the only rationalization that I was ever given was "it's about the feeling you get", what do YOU believe is right.... or "It's about interpretation".... when they could never interpret the context to match the single verse..which you MUST, how can you not?
Thus lies the danger.... refusing to analyse and critique your OWN faith to see if it holds true...
-------------------------------
Biblical teachings about women being subservent to men, are AGAIN, taken QUICKLY out of context.... read the verse after it tells women to obey their husbands.... it tells HUSBANDS to love your wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.... I ask you, "Which is harder" and "Which is more important" the mans role, or the womans.... If a women had a man who loved her more than Christ loved the church, why wouldn't she obey him, as he had every one of her best interests in mind and would sacrifice even himself in love for her... Tell me how that is controversial.... IF he doesn't fulfill that role, things could go horribly wrong and get distorted and messed up.... that is why the CONTEXT must be looked at....
Sacrifice is the CORE of the whole scripture... after Adam and Eve sinned, they were required to sacrifice the best and cleanest animals to account for their sin.... this is true throughout the entire old testament, and even from that first day, God told them that a perfect sacrifice would come, that would account for all sin... Referred to as the "Lamb who was slain".... That way Christ.... prophesied in the OT, fulfilled in the NT... this made animal sacrifice not necessary anymore as followed in Christ's teachings... That is why we don't do that anymore, along with MANY OT laws, as Christ taught that they were part of the covenant and the new shall come, which it did upon his death and resurrection.... Remember, this is included in Your King James Bible as well....
Circumcision was part of the old law, in which God passed on to the land of Israel to keep them clean and holy.... It's origin is because of the fact that an uncircumcised male in those times was much more likely to receive infection and this was a law to protect against that.... also eating pork and not meat with blood in it were also OT laws, part of the the OLD COVENANT with Israel which christ declared done upon his death and resurrection...
You said, "The bible talks heavily about women being subservient to men, sacrificing animals, and circumcision, however does that mean that we should do those things?"
See that answer above....
Where does this not make sense?
11-17-2005, 04:52 AM
#103
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 1,444
Originally Posted by obz
Originally Posted by jrv2000
What do you mean by dedicating? Is it a specific ceremony held?
11-17-2005, 01:21 PM
#104
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Ibiera, LA
Posts: 479
its amazing to see how complicated people are, and always have made religion, i for one do not believe in organized religion. Religion is not something that should be taught. It should be individually unique. Now if people were born knowing the bible, a certain set of beliefs, or that jesus was crucified, that would be different. But because it was created by man, and taught by man, there are many contradictions, errors,....... imperfections (like those being debated in this thread). I believe if there is a "god" or force or w/e you would like to call it, we would innately know about it and not have to be taught.
11-17-2005, 01:28 PM
#105
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 2,004
Originally Posted by wibblywobbly
Mormon's draw my ire because the LDS church goes out of it's way to crush dissenting voices and put pointless (to me anyways) restrictions on people's lives but all those "holier than thou" types who are "free of sin" are the same in my book.
11-17-2005, 05:00 PM
#106
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 809
Originally Posted by duston831
its amazing to see how complicated people are, and always have made religion, i for one do not believe in organized religion. Religion is not something that should be taught. It should be individually unique. Now if people were born knowing the bible, a certain set of beliefs, or that jesus was crucified, that would be different. But because it was created by man, and taught by man, there are many contradictions, errors,....... imperfections (like those being debated in this thread). I believe if there is a "god" or force or w/e you would like to call it, we would innately know about it and not have to be taught.
11-17-2005, 05:38 PM
#107
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Ibiera, LA
Posts: 479
yes, there are many things in life that we dont know until we are taught, but these things are factual knowledge, for ex, 1 + 1 = 2. No matter where in the world you go, even outside our world, 1 + 1 = 2. It is a fact. Not like religion, which is exaclty what it says... religion, or beliefs. My point was that if there is a "god" that created everything (whether out of boredom, loneliness, insecurity or w/e, considerging god is given all these human characteristics which is improbable), who wanted his creations to praise and worhip him, he would have 'built' that into us.
11-17-2005, 07:29 PM
#108
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 809
ok, but how do you know for a fact that 1+1=2. Its because everyone shares a common belief that it does. Whose to say that 1+1 really = 5? Everything is a belief. Someone told us, and we believe it. Or someone showed us and we believed it...etc. (u get the point hopefully). Nothing has to be or is what it seems. Everything could be changed, and if you get people to believe in it. Then in a sense it is real. Reality is a whole nother subject though. All I'm saying is that everything is subjective depending on what ones belief is. So to say that religion isn't factual knowledge is the same as saying nothing is really factual knowledge.
11-17-2005, 08:32 PM
#109
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Ibiera, LA
Posts: 479
well.... when it comes to any type of mathmatical science or equations, 1 + 1 will always equal 2. Now.... technically 1+1=2 is nothing more than a human way of labeling things, or putting them into words so they could be understood. LIke a tree. Is a tree really a tree? no, its just the name that we give it to be able to refer to it.
"Nothing has to be or is what it seems. Everything could be changed, and if you get people to believe in it. Then in a sense it is real. Reality is a whole nother subject though"
Being the skeptic that i am, i agree entirely with you on reality, but thats for another thread.
"So to say that religion isn't factual knowledge is the same as saying nothing is really factual knowledge. "
Now since we are being a little more in depth than most, you're right, i cant say anything is factual knowledge. But religion is not universal (in world terms) as is, say math. Now if there were only one religion, and the vast majority of people belonged to it, it would be different.
"Nothing has to be or is what it seems. Everything could be changed, and if you get people to believe in it. Then in a sense it is real. Reality is a whole nother subject though"
Being the skeptic that i am, i agree entirely with you on reality, but thats for another thread.
"So to say that religion isn't factual knowledge is the same as saying nothing is really factual knowledge. "
Now since we are being a little more in depth than most, you're right, i cant say anything is factual knowledge. But religion is not universal (in world terms) as is, say math. Now if there were only one religion, and the vast majority of people belonged to it, it would be different.
11-17-2005, 08:54 PM
#110
Senior Member
Scion Justice League of America
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,594
He did build that into us....
The need for a connection with God and a pursuit of God himself is evident through all of History.... whether misdirected or not....
He didn't build us to inherantly worship and chose him for one obvious reason... The concept of love is built on the choice TO LOVE...
We were created to have a relationship with him and to chose that or not to chose it... It had to be that way, or else it wouldn't be love, it wouldn't be free will... it would be worthless...
If the nature of the world has tought us anthing, it is that there are absolutes... concrete realities that aren't debateable... A perspective of God, at the whim of each and every individuals choice... that isn't consistent with the nature of the world around us, or with any theology of any faith....
My argument with the "Many directions" to God is, that if God were to give us so many directions to himself, why would they be mutually exclusive of each other... some things I do in Christianity would condemn me in Buddism, etc... There must be an absolute....
The need for a connection with God and a pursuit of God himself is evident through all of History.... whether misdirected or not....
He didn't build us to inherantly worship and chose him for one obvious reason... The concept of love is built on the choice TO LOVE...
We were created to have a relationship with him and to chose that or not to chose it... It had to be that way, or else it wouldn't be love, it wouldn't be free will... it would be worthless...
If the nature of the world has tought us anthing, it is that there are absolutes... concrete realities that aren't debateable... A perspective of God, at the whim of each and every individuals choice... that isn't consistent with the nature of the world around us, or with any theology of any faith....
My argument with the "Many directions" to God is, that if God were to give us so many directions to himself, why would they be mutually exclusive of each other... some things I do in Christianity would condemn me in Buddism, etc... There must be an absolute....
11-17-2005, 08:59 PM
#111
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 809
but why does 1+1 = 2, because that is what we all agreed on and believe in. If someone came out saying 1+1=6 from day one when the concept of math was derived, then by now we would all believe that 1+1=6. Like you said it is a label that society has accepted. But nevertheless doesn't make it true, real, or whatever you want to call it. In reality everything can be debated as we see here.
Getting back to the point though, even the things we innately know doesn't constitue it being a reality. Alot of the things we hold to be true as we get older are taught to us in some fashion, and we as individuals hold them to be "true" for whatever reasons. But I think the world would be a horrible place if we let everyone become and act in what they innately know. Its necessary that some are taught to be better and more productive citizens. I believe...lol...that innately we are not the best people we could be. Its not suprising that children tend to pick up (what we would consider) bad things, faster than the good.
All I'm saying is let people believe what they want to believe for whatever reason they have to believe in. No one person can say with 100% certainity that their belief is more accurate than anothers, nor the reverse. If we would all realize that, then we would be able get along with people no matter what they believe. Its funny how beliefs seperate us so much when no 1 belief is any more truer than another. It is just that, a belief. So I believe that all things are pretty much beliefs and the justification for those things are beliefs....lol.
Getting back to the point though, even the things we innately know doesn't constitue it being a reality. Alot of the things we hold to be true as we get older are taught to us in some fashion, and we as individuals hold them to be "true" for whatever reasons. But I think the world would be a horrible place if we let everyone become and act in what they innately know. Its necessary that some are taught to be better and more productive citizens. I believe...lol...that innately we are not the best people we could be. Its not suprising that children tend to pick up (what we would consider) bad things, faster than the good.
All I'm saying is let people believe what they want to believe for whatever reason they have to believe in. No one person can say with 100% certainity that their belief is more accurate than anothers, nor the reverse. If we would all realize that, then we would be able get along with people no matter what they believe. Its funny how beliefs seperate us so much when no 1 belief is any more truer than another. It is just that, a belief. So I believe that all things are pretty much beliefs and the justification for those things are beliefs....lol.
11-17-2005, 09:11 PM
#112
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Ibiera, LA
Posts: 479
the need for a connection with god is not in everyone, obviously. Some people feel that they need a reason for being here, a purpose in life, a way to explain things not yet explainable, or something greater than him/herself to serve in life. Not everyone feels this way.
Love is not a choice. You can choose whether or not to interact with someone, but you cant make yourself fall in love no more than you can suddenly stop loving someone without a reason. Its like the types of foods you like. You cant look at a new food and say you do or dont like it unless you've tried it. Once you do try it, you realize that either you do or dont like it. Its not a choice to make, you just come to the realization.
As far as the "concrete realities that aren't debateable".... I just dont think you are on the same level as Chillaxin206 and me.
Love is not a choice. You can choose whether or not to interact with someone, but you cant make yourself fall in love no more than you can suddenly stop loving someone without a reason. Its like the types of foods you like. You cant look at a new food and say you do or dont like it unless you've tried it. Once you do try it, you realize that either you do or dont like it. Its not a choice to make, you just come to the realization.
As far as the "concrete realities that aren't debateable".... I just dont think you are on the same level as Chillaxin206 and me.
11-17-2005, 09:57 PM
#113
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 809
^ You make a good point, I don't believe that you can make yourself fall in love either. As many people know, to love someone is not really a choice. Sometims we find ourselves loving people and we don't even know why. I would think in that instance we would choose not too, but for some reason we can't.
Again, these are my beliefs and only my beliefs.....and I do resespect everyone elses too.
Again, these are my beliefs and only my beliefs.....and I do resespect everyone elses too.
11-18-2005, 03:01 AM
#114
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Ibiera, LA
Posts: 479
"All I'm saying is let people believe what they want to believe for whatever reason they have to believe in. No one person can say with 100% certainity that their belief is more accurate than anothers, nor the reverse. If we would all realize that, then we would be able get along with people no matter what they believe. Its funny how beliefs seperate us so much when no 1 belief is any more truer than another. It is just that, a belief. So I believe that all things are pretty much beliefs and the justification for those things are beliefs....lol."
11-18-2005, 03:36 AM
#115
Senior Member
Scion Justice League of America
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,594
I like your point and agree with you fully....
I despise greatly the seperation and persecution that has resulted from the Belief in something supposedly full of Love and Peace...
My motives were and are entirely intellectual and a basis for what "I Choose" to believe based on the information around me... others choose differently, which is something I accept, although not enjoy fully...
This post has gone back into a direction that I appreciate... as the "Haters" have seemed to fall into the background and everyone can truely realize how complicated different worldviews truely are...
I dissagree on the description of love as not a choice, as I think it's limited by own lame language, which only has one world for love... Greek has three.... Eros, Agape, and Philo...
Eros - Romatic Love - Commonly associated with Sex/Physical Love
Agape - Unconditional/Holy Love
Philo - Brotherly Love...
The Love which I adress as that which is "Chosen" is Agape... Chosing to love despite whether or not recieving anything in return... unconditionally... Most commonly referred to in God's Love for us and the love we have the ability to chose for him as well...
I agree that Eros is not always able to be "Chosen" as I'm married to an amazing woman and that is something that is a mix of all three....
Thus, the limits of our language.... Almost every other language in the world has more than one word for Love... Our English is lame in that way...
I dissagree with the statements that everything can be debated.... There are concrete "Possibles" and "Impossibles"... Even Core Science, outside of Religion, recognises that reality universally...
My belief regarding everyone's hunger for God remains that although that hunger is misdirected toward items such as Fame, Success, Money, Love, Security, Hope, Betterment of society, that these are solely Mens attempt to fullfill that hunger outside of God himself... which history has shown us isn't the most effective... as history is raught with the super-successful, famous, powerful, humanitarian, and amazing wise, who have discussed and faced the reality that outside of faith and religion, their attempts seemed empty...
But, once again, these are my beliefs, not backed up solely on "My Beliefs", but on the reality of History, the world around me, the nature of the world, and the nature of man as well... which have consistently pointed me into the direction of what I chose to belief...
Thus the dillemma... The choice.... in the book "A Severe Mercy" by Sheldon Vanauken, there is an amazingly refreshing discussion through letters between Sheldon and C.S. Lewis about that choice... Now, that is a freakingly awesome book... outside of it's religious merits, it's just a great book about Sheldon's relationship with his wife and the love they chose to have before they even discovered Christianity.... really cool...
I despise greatly the seperation and persecution that has resulted from the Belief in something supposedly full of Love and Peace...
My motives were and are entirely intellectual and a basis for what "I Choose" to believe based on the information around me... others choose differently, which is something I accept, although not enjoy fully...
This post has gone back into a direction that I appreciate... as the "Haters" have seemed to fall into the background and everyone can truely realize how complicated different worldviews truely are...
I dissagree on the description of love as not a choice, as I think it's limited by own lame language, which only has one world for love... Greek has three.... Eros, Agape, and Philo...
Eros - Romatic Love - Commonly associated with Sex/Physical Love
Agape - Unconditional/Holy Love
Philo - Brotherly Love...
The Love which I adress as that which is "Chosen" is Agape... Chosing to love despite whether or not recieving anything in return... unconditionally... Most commonly referred to in God's Love for us and the love we have the ability to chose for him as well...
I agree that Eros is not always able to be "Chosen" as I'm married to an amazing woman and that is something that is a mix of all three....
Thus, the limits of our language.... Almost every other language in the world has more than one word for Love... Our English is lame in that way...
I dissagree with the statements that everything can be debated.... There are concrete "Possibles" and "Impossibles"... Even Core Science, outside of Religion, recognises that reality universally...
My belief regarding everyone's hunger for God remains that although that hunger is misdirected toward items such as Fame, Success, Money, Love, Security, Hope, Betterment of society, that these are solely Mens attempt to fullfill that hunger outside of God himself... which history has shown us isn't the most effective... as history is raught with the super-successful, famous, powerful, humanitarian, and amazing wise, who have discussed and faced the reality that outside of faith and religion, their attempts seemed empty...
But, once again, these are my beliefs, not backed up solely on "My Beliefs", but on the reality of History, the world around me, the nature of the world, and the nature of man as well... which have consistently pointed me into the direction of what I chose to belief...
Thus the dillemma... The choice.... in the book "A Severe Mercy" by Sheldon Vanauken, there is an amazingly refreshing discussion through letters between Sheldon and C.S. Lewis about that choice... Now, that is a freakingly awesome book... outside of it's religious merits, it's just a great book about Sheldon's relationship with his wife and the love they chose to have before they even discovered Christianity.... really cool...
11-18-2005, 04:47 AM
#116
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Ibiera, LA
Posts: 479
"My belief regarding everyone's hunger for God remains that although that hunger is misdirected toward items such as Fame, Success, Money, Love, Security, Hope, Betterment of society, that these are solely Mens attempt to fullfill that hunger outside of God himself... which history has shown us isn't the most effective... as history is raught with the super-successful, famous, powerful, humanitarian, and amazing wise, who have discussed and faced the reality that outside of faith and religion, their attempts seemed empty... "
If you would change "hunger for God" to "hunger for the truth", id agree with you fully
and yes, this thread has taken a turn for the better
If you would change "hunger for God" to "hunger for the truth", id agree with you fully
and yes, this thread has taken a turn for the better
11-18-2005, 03:27 PM
#117
Senior Member
Scion Justice League of America
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,594
^ Interesting comment ^'
My Belief, which I must recognize as that, is that "Truth" and "God" are synonymous.. The Truth lies only with God... and that the search for that Truth is endless and futile outside of it... based on my experience and the experiences I observe in others and in history...
I sincerely think that we as a society have recently ignored history, thus failing to learn the lessons of our ancestors, and have really lost alot of our ability to compare our ideas to the context of history... as we wouldn't end up repeating the same mistakes of thought.
My Belief, which I must recognize as that, is that "Truth" and "God" are synonymous.. The Truth lies only with God... and that the search for that Truth is endless and futile outside of it... based on my experience and the experiences I observe in others and in history...
I sincerely think that we as a society have recently ignored history, thus failing to learn the lessons of our ancestors, and have really lost alot of our ability to compare our ideas to the context of history... as we wouldn't end up repeating the same mistakes of thought.
11-18-2005, 05:00 PM
#118
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 809
This has turned into a very interesting conversation and I am glad to be a productive part of it. Thank you guys for being mature enough to have your own understandings and opening up your minds to hear others as well.
Ok now on to my beliefs...lol...No but really, I do ponder this often though, and eventhough I don't find myself to be much of a religion person I am into the relationship. But even in that there are many things that are up for debate, atleast that's how I feel. I really don't see how there are concrete possibles and impossibles. Who can even say for sure that anything is what it is. I think all things are up for debate.
I know I seem difficult, but I'm just a questioner, I guess a philosopher in a sense. I personally can't just take what someone says and hold it to be absolute truth. I even question the things I believe in sometimes. I can't even say for sure the things I hold to be true are. As a result I question the fact that anyone else can. Many peoples definition of proving something is coming up with a sort of logic that satisfies their understanding of the matter. I'm not totally comfortable with that. There are many things that are beyond our human knowledge and understanding, if we know that (there are many things that have yet to be explained) then whose to say that what we think we know is nothing more than a level of understanding of something beyond our understanding that we may never know?
Ok now on to my beliefs...lol...No but really, I do ponder this often though, and eventhough I don't find myself to be much of a religion person I am into the relationship. But even in that there are many things that are up for debate, atleast that's how I feel. I really don't see how there are concrete possibles and impossibles. Who can even say for sure that anything is what it is. I think all things are up for debate.
I know I seem difficult, but I'm just a questioner, I guess a philosopher in a sense. I personally can't just take what someone says and hold it to be absolute truth. I even question the things I believe in sometimes. I can't even say for sure the things I hold to be true are. As a result I question the fact that anyone else can. Many peoples definition of proving something is coming up with a sort of logic that satisfies their understanding of the matter. I'm not totally comfortable with that. There are many things that are beyond our human knowledge and understanding, if we know that (there are many things that have yet to be explained) then whose to say that what we think we know is nothing more than a level of understanding of something beyond our understanding that we may never know?
11-18-2005, 05:29 PM
#119
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Ibiera, LA
Posts: 479
Originally Posted by WeDriveScions
^ Interesting comment ^'
My Belief, which I must recognize as that, is that "Truth" and "God" are synonymous.. The Truth lies only with God... and that the search for that Truth is endless and futile outside of it... based on my experience and the experiences I observe in others and in history...
I sincerely think that we as a society have recently ignored history, thus failing to learn the lessons of our ancestors, and have really lost alot of our ability to compare our ideas to the context of history... as we wouldn't end up repeating the same mistakes of thought.
My Belief, which I must recognize as that, is that "Truth" and "God" are synonymous.. The Truth lies only with God... and that the search for that Truth is endless and futile outside of it... based on my experience and the experiences I observe in others and in history...
I sincerely think that we as a society have recently ignored history, thus failing to learn the lessons of our ancestors, and have really lost alot of our ability to compare our ideas to the context of history... as we wouldn't end up repeating the same mistakes of thought.
Being that you believe in God, you are limited to a certain way of thinking. For example, lets just say everything in the bible (not hating on any religion that stems from the bible, but just to use as an ex.) is true. Jesus is the son of "god" who was sent here and everything else. Take a step back and tell me why it couldnt be possible for there to be a family of gods. Or even a whole civiliation of gods. One day, little god johnny was really bored, so he created the universe and everything in it, as in the bible. But he only wanted his creations to acknowledge him. Hence, he inspired his creations to write the bible and only include him, when there actually are many gods.
This is just one of the infinte possibilities that could be. Not everyone can understand what i was saying, though im sure Chillaxin206 will b/c we seem to be on the same level of thought.
As far as ignoring history, if history has taught me anything, its that humans (most, not all) have always used some type of god, spirit, or higher power to try to provide answers and reasons to the unexplainable of that time. For ex. the romans created a god for everything they couldnt control or didnt understand. If they were going to be traveling on the seas, they prayed to poseidon for a safe voyage because they believed he controlled the water.
11-18-2005, 05:41 PM
#120
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 2,004
Greeks, not Romans, hence Roman Catholic. They(Greeks) pretty much also held Zeus to be the head God, but yes, they definitely had a God for everything.