scionofPCFL

Italy, here's the difference: The cat is out of the bag here. There are 300 million guns in the US. Stricter policies won't make them go away, they'll only increase their value.

In the US, the stricter the gun laws, the more gun violence there is. Chicago, DC, and NYC all have the strictest gun laws in the country, and they are home to some of the highest gun death rates in the country.

What could have and absolutely would have stopped this, is if every fith student had a concealed gun. Every single state that enacts concealed gun laws for the good citizens to arm and protect themselves sees an incredible decrease in violent crimes. Know why? Criminals like easy targets, and unarmed people are easy targets.

draxcaliber

well, here is my new favorite argument for gun control. 31 people shot deat today at virginia tech. thank goodness we have an amendment allowing things like this to happen. well, i am going to now barricade myself into my dorm room and start taking online classes from now on.

Tomas

If one actually reads (!) the Federalist Papers and other documents discussing the thoughts as the constitution was being written, one finds that at least part of the reason for the second amendment was a strong distrust of government - it was to allow ordinary citizens to protect themselves from the government.

All that aside, however, I've legally carried concealed firearms for nearly 40 years, and haven't shot anyone yet.

As to "home protection," one needs, obviously, to think things through in regards to safety of others and viability of the weapon as protection. One doesn't want to have to say to the bad guy "time out while I find my trigger lock keys", or "hang on, only two more digits on the combo," or "just a sec, gotta go to the top shelf of the second bedroom closet behind the two boxes of Christmas decorations to get my ammo - be right back!"

One needs to establish safety for others while at the same time assuring instant availability should the weapon be needed. If one can't do that, one might just as well sell 'em, 'cause the chance is much greater they will be used against you rather than in your defense when the time comes (if it ever does).

To make it complete, her are my "daily carries."



Tom

BoiseAuctioneer

Nice selection!

citizen01

Hmmm... I am happy with the way gun laws are but I am curious about something...

It would seem that all of you are ok with FA guns being illegal which contradicts so many of your arguments. 2 big examples are
1) Need gun to protect against gov.
Your g19 won't do crap against an FA m16
2) Your core argument is that if people wern't killing people with guns they would use something else. So why bother banning any weapon of any kind? Where do we draw the line?

BoiseAuctioneer

I am sure that if you read the previous posts you know where I stand however you draw the line at the point of guns made for sport or entertainment and guns made specifically for Killing people. Some guns I believe would be quite overkill shooting varmint...... Fully auto is for the retard that cant aim. I believe banning guns will do nothing but as stated raise their value and cause more criminal acts with guns!

draxcaliber

yeah, that argument about distrust of the government is pretty out of date. if you think you can take on the government with some pistols versus their fully automatic machine guns, assault rifles, mortors, guided missile, rocket propelled grenades, thanks, armored humvee's, tanks, stealth bombers and fighter jets, destroyers and nuclear submarines etc. be my guest.

djct_watt

In light of the recent events of this morning at Virginia Tech, my heart goes out to the friends and families of the victims' families.

Having said that, I don't believe in gun control-- I believe in people control. If I really wanted to kill a lot of people, I could easily do so with a few homemade devices. Heck, even give me a fork and I can show you some carnage. The bottom line is that it is not my weapon of choice that is the problem, but the motive, intent, and the willingness to act. Solving problems means dealing with the root cause, and not band-aiding with political pork like gun laws.

One look at some facts: (and I'm typing this from my phone so I can't verify with sites, so feel free to dispute)
1. Leading cause of death in the US? Heart disease
2. Leading cause of death in the younger demographics? Vehicular accidents
3. Homicide my firearm is very low on both of those lists. The sheer quantity in the difference is staggering!

SO! Should we ban all cars or limit all speeds to 5mph? We would save millions of lives! Should we ban all fast food to save lives and billions of dollars to the US economy? I think not!

Car accidents happen, not because of cars, but because of negligent drivers. In fact a car can be even more dangerouse than a handgun! What about planes? What about 9-11? Ban planes?

As a government we need to find ways to curb and prevent the negligence of people! As a society we need to create values that stop and deter criminal behavior. Each day that goes by, this society becomes more and more negligent in all its aspects. . . Health, behavior, kindness, knowledge, and morals. Band-aids will never fix problems; they only get rerouted.

Ok... Well, what if gun laws are effective? Some would argue that the ends justify the means. Show me why CA, a state with some of the strictest gun laws has such a HUGE gun crime problem and why a state like Texas has so few, relatively. There is no evidence that gun laws even work!

citizen01

Iv'e read every page so don't worry I'm not just jumping in.
It is interesting to me that everyone is saying that they need their gun for self defense (i.e. they are the best designed tool for killing) and yet confronted with my question you draw the line at guns that are "specifically designed for killing".
I am not for banning weapons but simply enjoy pointing out flawed logic in onesided conversations. Carry on.

seattledave

i'm pro-gun, even though i don't own guns or weapons.
But texas has/had a relatively high gun problem.

When Bush Jr. passed the first concealed handgun law in the U.S., Texas was the only place in the U.S. to have more people killed by handguns than auto-accidents.

California is a gross free-for-all when it comes to gangs, illegals, and crime.
I'd never live there, and always choose not to visit.

draxcaliber

cars serve an important purpose in society and our daily lives. ofcourse they are going to cause alot of deaths because there is a huge number of cars relative to guns. and nobody is forcing anybody to eat at mcdonalds, death by unhealthy eating is a life choice, nobody forces anybody to eat that garbage.

and as a person who spends alot of time on the road, i have avoided countless accidents because i constantly observe every car in my vicinity and literally predict what kind of stupid maneuvers they are going to make and where do i want to be to avoid them. you can see a car coming most of the time and drive cautously.

i do however have a serious problem with the idea that i can be sitting there taking notes in class, and some deranged madman with a legally purchases 9 mm can walk in and shoot me and anybody else he can point at.

you also can't argue that because planes were used in 9-11 they should be ban. i am well aware that there are a million and one ways to convert house hold objects into weapons. baseball bats, cooking knives, combinations of simple house hold agents, any tools you might have in your garage. but those are all tools that make our way of life possible. a gun is not a tool (aside from a flare gun), it is a weapon pure and simple. it is an implement of death.

djct_watt

I was not aware of that. My facts were based off our class studies for my masters in economics at Cal state Sacramento, in 2004. I'll have to look into your numbers and find out where you got them from. We had info from federal and state statistics.

citizen01

LOL... It's awfully quiet on the "I'm pro guns in my house to shoot people with" front.

ok tc4italy. We'll hold them and you punch.

hotbox05

yeah your views of cali seems very reminiscent of movies and not real califdornia life.

BoiseAuctioneer

I was going to leave it be but you have no clue what your talking about. At what point did I say I kept guns around that I would later use if necesary to keep my government in tact? I understand that I myself could not take one 1/1,000,000 of our nations military.

I own multiple guns and do have one for protection at home. I have a 12 gauge shotgun that is loaded and even has a round in the chamber that stands next to my bedstand. The reason I have this is because I live in downtown and have crazy meth neighbors. Now I do NOT have any kids around that I have to worry about shooting themselves with so I do not see it as a bad choice. Trust me though, you walk through my front door threatening me and I will have a new wall paper in my living room called "Pink Mist"

Any body that believes that guns need to be banned, NEEDS to be shot in the head for being that IGNORANT

hotbox05

you sure sound awfully violent , maybe YOU shouldn't have guns......

BoiseAuctioneer

Being more discriptive is violent?

You would enjoy watching your significant other being raped while your tied to a chair and cant do anything?

Maybe you need to consider something that intense before you can actually open your eyes to the advantages to not having any hesitation to actually kill someone.

I believe 100% with Seattle Dave
, There are way too many illegals and IDIOTS running these streets to not have protection in the case that they decide to target you or your house.

Idaho a little hick state still has a house broken into almost every 20 minutes! Not going to take the chance man I got too much to live for and care for my family too much.

scionofPCFL

As a point of fact, Texas was not the first state to allow for concealed hand gun laws. Texas looked at other states, and how they structured the laws (Arizona and Florida were the two I remember in the news a lot), which brings into question your other "fact" about more hand gun deaths than traffic deaths. Also, gun violence fell in all the major cities after that, and nobody has crashed an SUV into any restaurants and gone a shooting rampage since.

scionofPCFL

This is a situation that can only happen if the madman knows for fact that they are the only ones armed in the vacinity.

BoiseAuctioneer

AGREED