For ih8civx
I jumped into the abortion debate so I know how you feel.
Here...
Citizen07: An invisible zebra who is all powerful rules the world
You: No he doesn't that is preposterous. Show me some proof
Me: Prove he doesn't exist
You: I can't because you just made that up.
By your logic I just proved the existence of an all powerful invisible zebra. The point is if you make a claim it is on you to back it up not on someone else to disprove the imaginary.

 

(Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

(Genesis 22:1-1
"Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you."

(Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."

(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.

 

Please...don't just throw out a bunch of horrible things and mix them up with Christianity... Show me concrete evidence...

BTW, if you're talking about Christians that have done bad things, or things done in the name of religion... look here:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologe...trocities.html
Why does the God of the Old Testament seem so cruel and judgemental?
here:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/killergod.html

Please note, I'm not trying to dump answers from somewhere else into this debate. I did however read through these and they are very sound as far as I believe. I just merely do not have much time here... especially since I do seem out numbered too

 

Ahh...work is calling. Enjoyed the debate!

mitchelltc1, look two posts above this for the quotes to back up my previous statement.

 

Well, I am leaving work and headed home. Great debate thus far. I will try to get on later and keep myself updated.

 

Yeah... My day is coming to a close also and I havn't done half the stuff I need to get done to get out of here. TGIF though. Till monday friends.

 

ok, fine, then where would you put dinosaurs and cochroaches then? there are 7 days of creation. 2 of which have are when animals are created. want to included stegosaurus with canaries or cattle? as far as i can see, that's all you have to pick from. But if you know about other days of creation, or he had dinosaurs living on a world without light, let me know.

See how I'm debating some totally b.s. literature? My "theory" is, there was no god that came up with these days of creation. That really it was a bunch of guys who sat down and wrote the bible, and they didn't even know abuot dinosaurs, and therefore didn't include them, and they weren't aware how ancient cochroaches were, and how new birds are. as the idiots that they were, believing that slavery was ok, slaughting animals saved your soul, and that the world was flat they assumed the world with man was just a couple thousand years old (which if you believe adam was the first man, then you do.)

 

God could have created dinosaurs anytime he wanted. The 7 days of creation may not be 24 hr periods of time, as stated before. He could have even created the ground with fossil records already in it. That is something we will never know.

I've also already pointed out the hundreds of things that the bible was right about, but science was proven wrong as time passed. It shows how the Bible, even though it is so old, was way ahead of science.

Side note: weren't the Dinosaurs very much like birds skeletally? (spell) Also, weren't their dinosaurs that flew? pterodactyl? So why are birds so new? But anyhow, I don't believe in macroevolution anyway...

Slavery and thinking the world was flat, were not issues of Biblical people, they were issues of the entire world... And btw, the Bible says the earth is round...just no one had the comprehension to think that it actually could be.

 

i love that response!(heard it before many times, sorry)
So god possibly put fake fossils into the ground at the dawn of time to stump mankind after the year 1900ad or so? he's so clever.

it doesn't matter if the days of creation are 1 day, or 1 billion years, having whales created before land dinosaurs, or cochroaches or just about any other insect we have 100million year old fossils for is so wrong.

the only science we've been able to know form over 200 years ago, is catholic church "approved" science. that's why. The bible evolved through each intrepretation. read: sperm whales did not come before stegosaurus. they didn't. you know that. i know that. but you probably don't want to admit you think like that, for fear it means you think the bible is false, right?

pterodactyl are not technically considered dinosaurs. But if you read my posts, i am always including "land" in front of "dinosaurs", because I know, just like you've done, christians like to point that out and move on to a new subject. "Look over there" and start a new subject.

round, but not a sphere(think a quarter on it's side floating in the air). people like to re-intrepret it as sphere, but don't you think all those catholic priests that lived and breathed the bible everyday would have known it says sphere before prosectuting galileo?

 

Actually, slavery most definitely was an issue to biblical people. Jesus had someting to say about it:

(Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."

Others:

(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

(1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

 

Good point, but if you really saw an invisible Zebra, wouldnt you be ____ed that you couldnt prove it? Ive seen God, Ive talked to God, I know he's real. Can I necessarily show you a picture or prove that I saw him... no. Doesnt make me very credible, but I dont care, because I know Im right

I hate when people like heathen get so upset with these debates. I mean, if God really DOESNT exist, then why do you care if someone believes he does? I dont read... never have. If it doesnt have pic's, I dont usually read it. Im a Christian. I may swear etc. but I believe in life everlasting, God, and all the glory of the Lord. I do so having never picked up a bible or attend a bible study. Maybe thats why I dont necessarily believe in everything some Christians do.

Read my myspace blog to understand my thoughts a little more, I posted it last week actually, heh, good timing....

"""A take on Christianity.
Current mood: satisfied
Category: Religion and Philosophy

A friend recently told me how upset he was about Chrisitan bands that make it big then disappear to the festivals and shows for the more glamorous lives of mtv etc. I think theres a reason for that. I think Christians merely want to look at anything they do and say, "Hey, we're Christians, so we can't just do normal music, we have to do Christian music, magazines, television shows, paintings, dating websites, etc." Christians take this standpoint that if the world has anything, there needs to be the Christian equivalent just so God doesnt get mad at us. Even though the intention may have already been brought forward.

The problem is, the Christian equivalent is almost always sub-par to what initially was created. I think the fact of the matter is that Christians are more focused on putting out a product that will be considered safe and, if I may, "Jesusy" enough for other Christians to buy. They totally disregard the instructuions that "whatever we do with our hands, we should do to the best of our abilities". That's a paraphrase of a passage in the New Testament, which I can't recall teh passage at the moment, but you get the idea.

Anyway, I wish Christians would choose to focus more on creating something to the ebst of their ability rather than "Christian-proofing" someone else's product. We as Christians need to realize that if we are truly Christians, whatever it is that we are comnig up with will inadvertently revolve around Christ in some manner - we don't need to specifically throw in some Bible verse or make everything specifically relate to how we're saved.

I think God frowns on sub-par work, even if the intent is to have safe alternatives to the world's offerings. God's not looking for us to be safe and make sure no other Christians ever sees "Jackass" or hears the f word. He's looking for us to glorify Him and we're not doing that because we're too worried about offending overly zealous, legalistic Christians.

Christians need to be willing to face a world that is as dark as it is. We need to be real. Pat Robertson, you and your 700 other friends in your club... you're corny, and you're making other followers of Christians look ridiculous.

While on the subject theres some more Ive beenwondering about.

Ive been thinking about this for a bit today: why do we call her the Virgin Mary? I mean, I realize its because she conceived and birthed Jesus as a virgin, but why do we still call her that? We dont call Jesus the Virgin Jesus (lets not go into all that DaVinci Code crap right now, ok?), but he was. My friends dont refer to me as the Virgin Kirby or "Get'n some Kirby" at least not to my face. Do you guys call me that?

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Anyway, back to the point: according to the Bible, Jesus had some brothers, meaning that Mary gave birth to other children, who were not conceived of the Spirit, so her and Joseph mustve became intimate, thereby removing her of her status as a Virgin. Do we just call her the Virgin Mary to differentiate her from Mary Magdalene? But that doesnt make sense because Mary Magdalene has a last name to distinguish her from Mary, the mother of Jesus. And we call the Virgin Mary, Mary the mother of Jesus.



I dont know. I guess Ive just been going through some reaffirmation lately. Christianity has always been a rather personal thing to me. To many people try way to hard to glorify the Lord. Maybe its because they are self conscience, or feel its what God "leads them to do". I dont feel that God needs me to quit my horrible job for something more fun and glamorous. Its just what we want to hear, someone needs to be in the less glamourous parts of the world to fill the ears of the people. I dont need to wear a giant sign on my chest to preach it either. Im not the type to just run up and tell someone all about God. I dont do it about anything else, so why be that weirdo? Well I guess I am pretty quick to run up to strangers and boast about my car Forget that statement. heh.



Jess's church got a new preacher and while he seem's like a very genuine preacher, their last one was much more my type. Just as a teacher, theres ones you learn from and ones you just dont get. He seems to like alter calls alot. In the two lessons ive heard its ended with "if you yada yada raise your hand" then its make you stand up, then its everyone surround them and pray. I dont like that. Its something so personal, why the need to make someone do that. I could have raised my hand to say im going to make a difference, by why then make them stand and confess? Its a turnoff to people who may be in church but are still confused or trying to figure their own beliefs out. I was brought to God through music. I still feel closest to God while jamming alone in my car to some God loud music. Im indifferent with alot of the "Chrisitian policies" of the religion. I believe in God, I will never deny it, I try to be a good person (different then trying to "act" like a Christian), I dont need to close my eyes bow my head and fold my hands to pray to God, I just do it. Usually its just through thought, sometimes outloud on my own. I dont read the Bible alot. Its not because I dont want to, its just because I dont read hardly anything. Its hard to do when your bipolar and have an attention problem. I dont feel the need to proclaim God through bumper stickers, I dont feel the need to downgrade nonbelievers. I go to shows, concerts, movies and gatherings where Im surrounded by haters, nonbelievers, people who just dont know anybetter, drug dealers and crackheads. I dont feel that I need to give them each a bible and pray with them and for them right then in there. I feel that leading by example, and just being strong in my own heart is enough, others will follow. Its the same way Christ entered my heart. It wasnt the "accidental alter call" at Creation (which the last church service reminded me of), it was sitting by myself watching the Mint at the Giant center during Creation a few years ago. My ex had just ripped my heart out and I was listening to a no name band all alone in a full stadium that was rather empty. I was in the highest seat there with my head resting in my palms. Everyone was jamming to the bigger named bands on the other stage. I was all alone, just thinking. It was just then during the bands music that I felt God enter my heart. Everything was explained to me right then and there. There was no preacher screaming on a stage with a dramatic congregation, there was no evangilist praying to God for me, there wasnt a bible in my hands with verses being memorized. It was just me, in a hard chair, listening to some music by a band called The Mint.



I sometimes swear, sometimes get drunk, and sometimes say things and later wonder why. I dont always "act" like a Christian. I dont act, I am who God created. I make mistakes that sometimes offend my own morals, but not my Christianity.Sure theres a way God wants us to live and the devil brings us into situations of fun to show us the glamorous coverup, but I cant believe that I wont get to heaven if I get a tattoo. Im sure someone reading this will argue different statements, and thats fine because Chrisitianity is a set of beliefs that is personal to each person who believes. But just as every preacher has ever done, everyone has their own interpretation of the Bible. The 10 commandments were put in the bible as warnings of the devils actions in my opinion. I cant believe that saying "oh God" is gonna keep me out of heaven because I said it in vein, but telling the world that God is a coward to me is the "in vien" he speaks of. The culture itself interprets the bible different ways hence some of the "outdated" texts of the old testament.



I just felt that writing this would help me reaffirm my own beliefs. Its not here to start a contreversy or to make people go "oh I hear Kirbys one of those weird Jesus Freaks". haha. I dont press the issue onto people but if you ever need someone to shed some light on the subject, I'm here. I sometimes get off track walking my path and need to jump back on. I guess that to me, if I believe in God, show God through my heart, open my life to his will, and never cross God over, then Ill be saved when judgment day comes. I dont judge people for their beliefs as most Christians do, and I dont have a religious opinion on everything as most do. Thats what gives Chrisitianity a bad name. Too many people quote the bible in instances of homosexuality, abortion, and body modification to name a few. Isnt that God's choice to make? While some may see their views as "teaching the others the way of Christ", I believe it just turns people away. People need to know who Christ is before they're going to listen to you tell them that Christ thinks its wrong. And in the end, so long as you showed them another path to try, youve done God's will. Give them the phone to Jesus, he'll tell them what they need to know from there. Phone to Jesus... interesting statment Maybe a better way to think of it is... someones on a dark path and just needs some light to lead them in the right direction. Ill gladly throw them the light, but its up to them to follow their own path with it.



I guess Im done rambling now. Its 2am and I just cant sleep. Thanks for reading this, now that you just wasted all that time reading that, spare another few seconds and comment.



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I think he meant to say not JUST biblical people...

 

um, what about evolution? what about other galaxys? do you REALLY, seriously, which absolute honesty, believe we are the only intelligent life forms in all of space? can you explain anti-matter, and why is the universe expanding? are you suggesting that got created all of that, and then earth? oh COME ON! dont be naieve, the odds are so rediculious of no other life, it is undeniable. are you also suggesting that god created atoms, protons, neutrons, electrons and whatever makes those up? please explain outerspace.

 

 

^^lol your just asking for trouble

 

Please check out this webpage:
http://www.channel4.com/culture/micr...tes/bible.html
Then watch this video about Robert Beckford's journey. It is an amazing piece of film.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...73048178434620

 

http://www.evilbible.com/
Ritual human sacrifice, slavery, rape, murder all taken directly from the bible. You might want to try reading your "holy" book once in a while. The vast majority of christians I've spoken with have little to no actual knowledge of the bible and yet proselytize for it.

 

LOL... ih8civx. That long post was "interesting" to say the least. I won't pick it apart unless you want me too cause there is just too dam much but there is one thing I can't let you get away with. You said that
"Too many people quote the bible in instances of homosexuality, abortion, and body modification to name a few. Isnt that God's choice to make?"
If you believe in God it is, and he made his choice, you can read about his choice from those quotes in the bible. LOL...
God is kind of conservative.

 

I didn't read this whole topic, I don't find it necessary to read the entire thing just to comment. That being said...

Their is a huge difference from christians to any other religion. Most so called christians pick and chose what they want to believe. A lot of people (people who belive in god, and people who don't believe in god included) see the hypocrisy and get disqusted with religion. You see pictures of catholic priests blessing troops and weapons in WW2 pictures. They are from the same religion (supposebly representing the same God) blessing warring troops and blessing firearms, planes, and bombs.

How can God do that? How can Religions do that? Simple, For the most part, almost every religion is wrong. How can you be a christian and fight in a war? Isn't that against one of the Ten Commandments? Yes, and I know that someone will try to reason, say that sometimes war is necessary. Its not. If no evil people existed (including satan), there would be no need for wars.

Most religion is pointless, and believe in contradictory beliefs. Not all do, though.

 

11 pages and no girls. Awesome.
Krusty,
I don't think that anybody on this thread is questioning the hypocracy of religion. We have yet to have somebody come on and say "I am christian and I am right".
Maybe a comment with more of a point to it would be if you shared what you believed and why.