bear454

I didn't say you weren't a god, too. Just not GOD.

SatsumaxA

C.S. Lewis is a former atheist that taught at both Oxford and Cambridge Universities with strong credentials in logic/reasoning theory and critical languages. His conversion to Christianity happened in mid life and he became the most popular lecturer/speaker during WWII, second only to Winston Churchill. He was well known in several debates covering atheism/Christianity and presented the stronger argument in all encounters both in public and weekly at Oxford Socratic Club. Yes he wrote the Narnia novels but also "Mere Christianity" in which he rationaly proves both Christ and God to sufficient end. But like anything else, dont discount something as deep as Christianity, or any other beliefe, until you fully understand, and believe me I understand the theory of evolution, cosmology, physics, neurology/brain, electronics and most technical subjects. With reading the Bible and knowing about the scientific explination of our modern world I still had questions about alot of things that CS Lewis, and other great writers, has addressed with logic, science and reason fully represented and explaned.

jovan_gonzales

Hahaha, it's kinda bad that I don't remember that anywhere, but you were there when each animal evolved or was created, right? No. No one was. Just because we have a good idea as to how everything evolved doesn't mean we know for sure. I mean, it does sound REALL off, but it could be right. Science can't prove that all these things evolved from each other. I mean, scientists can't even agree on where humans evolved from, so who are they to say that a pigeon didn't come first? Just sayin. I don't necessarily agree with EVERYTHING the Bible says, but also we are taught to interpret the Bible as WE see it, which kinda goes against what most people think. There is no way in heck that everyone can read the Bible and get the same message out of it.

Also. How do we date those "older" bodies? Carbon dating normally right? Well, I know that there have been studies that show carbon dating can be very inaccurate. So something that is only a few years old could seem like it was 23874018 years old.
http://contenderministries.org/evolution/carbon14.php

And there are some species that evolve very quickly, especially those with short life spans and humans didn't live much beyond 35 back in the day, so who knows?

seattledave

I fully understand christianity.
church 3 times aweek, christian school(1.5 hours of "bible" class everyday). I read religion and history books for fun. I know C.S. Lewis is the christian's premeire author. If you check with most christian schools, they've got kids reading those narnia novels from 3rd grade through bible college, showing you how azraielthe lion is supposed to be jesus, and all that other nonsense. Seriously, have you had to read the narnia books lately. ugh what a poor read. I haven't read "Mere Christianity", but besides being a popular author, C.S. Lewis is a weak author, imo.

Know who was a great christian? Charles Darwin.
The man wrote how he struggleed with his research because it proved exactly what I posted about the days of creation.
He only published his books, because another researcher had beaten him to the punch, and all his research on galagos and his other travels around the world would be for nothing if he hadn't.

Christians hate and belittle Darwin, and yet he was very a devote christian.

jct

i'm agnostic end of story

seattledave

ok, that interpretation excuse works for everything after deutoronomy. The bible, and your local preacher will tell you books 1-5 were direct words of god. not some human's reinterpretation of the facts.

some early dating has been off, but not that far off. when posting reference to science, if you look towards religious websites, obviously they're going to distort facts. I don't think you actually read gen 1:20-30. Do you know about the legs sperm whales got? They were obviously there for a reason, until the whale's ancestors went back into the water. Scientistics aren't out to prove christianity wrong, they're there to prove reality.

Yes or No, Do you think stegosaurus's and other early dinosaurs really could have lived with something like elephants and giraffees? think turkeys came before brontosaurus? The bible says they did.

have you ever studied horse evolution? or human? 76 generations is a pathetic amount of time for the incredible evolution that has happened form early man to now.
Do you think Adam, the first man was like cro-magnum? or an even earlier form of primate? or are all the finding humans do, fakes?

Just because you didn't read and comprehend what I wrote, doesn't mean I didn't just show you how wrong the bible is. Like many christians, you seem to want an all or nothing answer. Evolution has been proven many times, take horses for example. What evolution doesn't have the link for every single animal to every other animal, all the way back to single celled organisms. So evolution is partially incomplete, like you said, we can't be there for every single occurance that has happened.

Budsmoke

I believe in a god, but I don’t believe in this god or that god.

What bugs me the most about all the different faiths, is their interpretation of what will happen in the end. According to X, all of Y will be punished with eternal agony. And Y believes that X will be punished. So which one is correct? How does one make the correct choice of faith? You have no choice in where you were born and what you were taught.

seattledave

ok, so where did you get your idea that a god even exist? those same religions/faiths that bug you, right? or the people who taught you about a god did.

captainlaziness

Curious Bees

“Why do people have different religions?” I asked. “It
seems like the best one would win, eventually, and we’d all
believe the same thing.”
The old man paused and rocked. He tucked both hands
inside his red plaid blanket.
“Imagine that a group of curious bees lands on the outside
of a church window. Each bee gazes upon the interior
through a different stained glass pane. To one bee, the
church’s interior is all red. To another it is all yellow, and so
on. The bees cannot experience the inside of the church
directly; they can only see it. They can never touch the interior
or smell it or interact with it in any way. If bees could
talk they might argue over the color of the interior. Each
bee would stick to his version, not capable of understanding
that the other bees were looking through different pieces of
stained glass. Nor would they understand the purpose of the
church or how it got there or anything about it. The brain
of a bee is not capable of such things.
“But these are curious bees. When they don’t understand
something, they become unsettled and unhappy. In
the long run the bees would have to choose between permanent
curiosity—an uncomfortable mental state—and
delusion. The bees don’t like those choices. They would
prefer to know the true color of the church’s interior and its
purpose, but bee brains are not designed for that level of
understanding. They must choose from what is possible,
either discomfort or self-deception. The bees that choose
discomfort will be unpleasant to be around and they will be
ostracized. The bees that choose self-deception will band
together to reinforce their vision of a red-based interior or
yellow-based interior and so on.”
“So you’re saying we’re like dumb bees?” I asked, trying
to lighten the mood.
“Worse. We are curious.”



-from God's Debris

jovan_gonzales

Ok. Well let me say this. You have proven my religion wrong, there. One occassion and I am sure you can give me a hundren more. But you trying to prove my whole religion wrong is like me trying to prove your science wrong. Both have some correctness to them, both were created as a means to identify and explain things unknown and both require a person to believe things that they themselves have no knowledge of and may not necessarily be true.

I do not think all of the previous human-like creatures are fakes, who's to say God didn't create others? Or do multiple trials until He came upon us? There's nothing that says He didn't. There's also nothing that says he did.

Also, there aren't THAT many differences from early man to now. We are taller and our brains are larger. Our bone structure changed a little, but not really all too much. I will say that 76 generations is definitely not enough time for that to happen, but evolution can happen rapidly.

So, if you believe in evolution, why then, were humans allowed to evolve? According to Darwin, only things that are superior are selected for. If those earlier humans are really our ancestors, why were they allowed to keep living/evolving? We started walking on two legs which is must slower and inefficient, look around, we're pretty much the only ones that do it. We also lost our hair, why? We have sucky vision compared to most animals, we can't smell crap, we aren't fast, and early humans were NOT smart, the brain size was similar to that of chimp or smaller animal. Early humans didn't have sharp claws or anything to protect ourselves, so why did we continue on? That's where if I do believe in evo, then there was something else on our side. So in that there is something where evolution contradicts itself. Only superior traits are selected and yet, we were able to evolve. I can't think of anything that would have been superior about early humans.

I have learned that in both science (no God) and religion (God(s)) I just have to take some things for granted.

P.S. sorry for quoting a religious website when showing carbon dating can be off, but I was looking for the first thing that agreed. Our molecular chemistry teacher was talking about how carbon dating can be wrong during class about 2 weeks ago actually, but it's a little hard to quote him, and I am pretty sure that he would know what he was talking about.

guitarguru44

First one he proves he doesn't exist also wins..

What a worthless thread..

a_german_named_hans

^^ is anything in the Off Topic section useful?

BYeRhONe

god doesnt believe in athiests

to him, they dont exsist

djct_watt

I dunno if this has been said yet or not.

But some of you self-righteous people (on both sides) need to go take a philosophy class because you are just full of yourselves.

By all rules of logic, YOU CAN NEITHER PROVE NOR DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD.

Therefore, it is pointless to bicker about it. All you can do, is validate or invalidate a person's logic and reasoning for believing the way they do.

Try this; PROVE that we live in the exact conditions like the movie The Matrix. Can you prove it? No. Can you disprove it? No. Is it possible? Hell yes. Do I believe that it is likely? No! What you think is a silly thought be not be so silly to others. But you would a fool to completely ridicule someone else's LOGICAL beliefs.

The existence of God is logically possible, and the belief in Him is logically sound. However, you would be JUST as logically sound to believe the opposite. Now believing that global warming being caused by humans is a fact? THAT, is an illogical conclusion, as all the evidence is based on correlation. Correlation does not imply causation. So if you believe in gorebal warming but do not believe in God, you are just as religious as any bible scholar. Doesn't mean your beliefs are wrong, but they are not based on fact. Just correlations.

djct_watt

PS, I'm not religious, but I actively study almost all major religions, as they fascinate me. I'm open to the possibility. But I'm not yet convinced. But I'm not stupid enough to assume that I know everything and that I can't be wrong. Modern day people worship themselves as God. Religious or not, humility and the ability to learn is a virtue.

cyergey

One of my favorite comments on religion was made by George Carlin. No matter what your belief, I think it is a pretty insightful observation about certain religions. Obviously, it favors the non-believers side, but still very interesting...

http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm

WARNING: Adult language in the above page.

midgethearsexb

So if there is no god then it's just a coincidence that the earth rotates like it does? That procreation happens like it does? That everything that exists happens like it does? I mean seriously... look at everything around us. How then, if not by a supreme being?

midgethearsexb

Wow! I wish more people were like that. So true when you say that we worship ourselves.

Budsmoke

I guess I got my idea that a god exists from my parents. I was raised in a Catholic family in a Catholic-majority community. The idea was instilled in my mind from the day I was born.

As a teenager, I lost faith in Catholicism. I was exposed to different points of views, and naturally I had to question those views against what I was told to be “the absolute truth”. One of the biggest turn-offs of this religion relates to my previous statement, “You have no choice in where you were born and what you were taught.” According to Catholicism (from what I was taught), if a person does not believe in Jesus Christ, then they will not be admitted into Heaven. Then what? They go to Hell? Would this God truly damn billions of people that have lead moral lives and were truly kind at heart?

I have not committed myself to any religion since then. Pretty much every religion makes a claim that their god is the only god, and that all other beliefs are blasphemous and deserving of punishment (either through religious wars or in the “afterlife”)

This however, hasn’t persuaded me to believe in no god at all. I have not seen any believable proof that a god doesn’t exist, nor have I seen anything to prove that a god does exist. It’s a mystery, one that I cannot solve until I die. I can either go through life believing that an afterlife exists (with god) or I can go through life believing that there is no purpose in my life other than to die.

I would rather live my life believing that there is a reason to be nice to others. If there is a god, then we are his creation (whether it be “in his image” or a combination of ingredients and time). And if we show no kindness towards his creations, then he will show no kindness to us. If it were ever proven that a god didn’t exist, then it would be a pretty crappy world with everyone just doing what pleases themselves with no regards to the happiness of others.

midgethearsexb

If there is a god, then I was right and I will be better off for believing in him. If there isn't... oh well... what's the worst that could happen to me now? I choose to believe, but this is not my only reason for believing.