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Atheist vs Theist (Debate)

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Old 03-30-2007 | 04:54 PM
  #81  
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I appreciate someone finally taking the time to put together a well thought out statement. Unfortunately you're wrong though. The church imprisoned Galileo for preaching that the earth revolved around the sun... eh hem... escuse me. Along with many other modern astrology knowledge we know today.
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:02 PM
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The church (as with the rest of the world) believed the world to be flat, because they did not entirely understand why the Bible would use a word in Hebrew like circle (similar to our sphere) to describe the Earth. In that time in history, it just didn't make sense... that was the point I was trying to make.
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by citizen01
I appreciate someone finally taking the time to put together a well thought out statement. Unfortunately you're wrong though. The church imprisoned Galileo for preaching that the earth revolved around the sun... eh hem... escuse me. Along with many other modern astrology knowledge we know today.
I was merely mentioning names of people that got the axe for disagreeing with the church.
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:09 PM
  #84  
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I was talking to mitchelltc1
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:10 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by mitchelltc1
....The science books have changed, but the Bible (in it's original context)is more credible than ever. The Bible is never wrong...

There is not within the biosphere of Earth enough water to ever have had a "world-wide" Flood, especially enough to cover Mount Everest or even mount Ararat. I suppose "magic" is the way to explain that one.

How about the creation of the universe:

In Genesis 1:1 it says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.", then later on in Genesis 1:8 it says "And God called the firmament Heaven." So did he create heaven twice? Are there two heavens? I thought maybe the first statement was just saying what God did, then it was going to explain in detail how he created heaven and earth... but in Genesis 1:2 the earth has already been created. So I have to believe that there was a double creation of heaven.

On the first day, God created light. No problem there, right? But God didn't create any sources of light until the forth day. So did he only invent the concept of light on the first day, but no light was around until the forth day? If he had light, as well as darkness, and light and day... then why did he have to make the sun, moon, and stars? No matter how you look at the subject of light during the creation, it just doesn't add up.

Sunlight brings us to another problem. We know the sun was created on the forth day... but plants were created on the third day. We know plants require sunlight to live, so why did God make these things in this backwards order? Now if we take the literal time frame, and a day in creation as being a 24 hour period, the plant thing isn't a real problem... plants can survive 24 hours. But then the whole creation story loses credibility... who really believes the universe was created in less than a week? Not even most creationist believe this one. That is why many people say that a day in the creation was 1,000 to 7,000 years (depending on who you ask). Name a plant that can live 7,000 years with perfect conditions... much less with no sunlight.
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:13 PM
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http://flamingchicken.ytmnd.com/
yep
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by seattledave
i'd pray to a god if i was actually going to get real superpowers after i die.(maybe even for 144 virgins)
...I think after 144 days, u won't have any virgin lefts...
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:24 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by mitchelltc1
The Bible is never wrong...
Ok, i want you to list out the order of these animals and me which you think came first:

Whale, Turkey, Canary, Worm, Cochroach, Stegosaurus.

Now go read genesis 1:20-30.(days 4 & 5)
http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/gen1.html (< that's a christian website too btw)

Now tell me, what the "Bible that is never wrong" says.

It doesn't matter if the days of creation are 1 second apart, or 1 billion years apart.
And any of you christians that believe the bible to be true, please do that too.
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mitchelltc1
The famous astronomer, Ptolemy, declared dogmatically that the number of stars to be exactly 1056! But the Bibles states that the stars are innumerable (Genesis 15:5) written nearly 4000 years ago!
Um, yeah anyone can make that assumption by looking up. It don't take a mathematical genius to figure that one out chief.

Recent discoveries by scientists with newer and better instruments, through mitochondrion DNA analysis, show that all races have a common ancestor, a woman who lived thousands of years ago, leaving resilient genes carried by all of mankind. In the scientific community - as in the Bible - they call her "Eve."
No one in the scientific community follows this theory. Mitochondrial DNA is passed completely to us from our mothers embryo. This doesn't prove eve existed. It shows that at some time one species formed an intercellular symbiotic relationship with bacterium and spawned the first eukaryote. All eukaryotes (plants and animals, basically) have mitochondria, not just humans.

Science is constantly changing, and each change usually brings it closer to the Bible.
Um, no. Quite the opposite. As science develops we get farther from the mythology of the bible and closer to the truth of the universe.

The fact that the Bible makes statements that were out of step with the thinking of the day - even though later proved correct - reveals more evidence that the writers were given superior knowledge of the world. The science books have changed, but the Bible (in it's original context)is more credible than ever. The Bible is never wrong...
Wow are you way off on that one.
101 bible contradictions
Criminal Acts condoned in the Bible

Truth is, there would not be any science, medicine, or technology if there were not unchanging physical laws. "Science" means the systematized study of physical laws. When science leaves observation of laws to speculate, it ceases to be science and becomes philosophy! The reason we are able to do more today in the fields of medicine and technology is because we are learning more about the laws that are not "evolving" but rather are unchanging! There are literally millions of physical laws that govern every aspect of creation. Whether it is an atom, molecule, or the farthest star away, laws govern their existence. The more we understand God's physical laws the more we can use them for the betterment of humanity. The fields of medicine and technology have just observed God's laws and have tried to harness them for the betterment of society.
I agree. Just replace "God" with "the Universe" and you'd be accurate.
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by HeathenBrewing
Name a plant that can live 7,000 years with perfect conditions... much less with no sunlight.
Oof, as much as I hate to help out the opponents...
http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/science/8039/
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:30 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by soros151
Originally Posted by seattledave
i'd pray to a god if i was actually going to get real superpowers after i die.(maybe even for 144 virgins)
...I think after 144 days, u won't have any virgin lefts...
Haha, personally I wouldn't want to spend eternity with a bunch of chicks that don't know what they're doing...
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:41 PM
  #92  
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I love how everyone says there isn't a God. How come there's hardly an argument trying to disprove there is one? People automatically make an issure for the people who do believe in a God to prove that he exists. Ok...you don't believe in a high power. Do you believe in other lifeforms besides the ones on Earth? Can you prove that they exist? It's all beliefs. There's nothing wrong with them. There's no way to prove or disprove them. It's just the way life is.
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:52 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by jsa3mm
I love how everyone says there isn't a God. How come there's hardly an argument trying to disprove there is one?
I hate having to keep repeating this:

you can only prove something is.
you can not prove something isn't.

been to junior high? remember the scientific method?

Originally Posted by jsa3mm
People automatically make an issure for the people who do believe in a God to prove that he exists. Ok...you don't believe in a high power. Do you believe in other lifeforms besides the ones on Earth? Can you prove that they exist? It's all beliefs. There's nothing wrong with them. There's no way to prove or disprove them. It's just the way life is.
being that I believe the universe expanded, and that our solar system has not always been what it is today,
I believe every element we have, is also found in at least some other places in the universe. and being their are millions+ of solar systems, with all different configurations, with at least some planets close enough to their star that they're warm, but not too hot, I believe it is very likely some other life exists, if it's only a bacteria or virus or protein or amino acids(please re-read that statement before just quoting my "i believe it is very likely...").

It is a belief based on facts. A theory. yes.

quit asking to disprove magic, you can only prove something so much, that you can conclude something isn't.

If you or me, make a wild claim it is our duty to explain and prove why we think so. The burden of proof is on the claimant.

I'd also like to add, our earth temperature HAS CHANGED.
#1 our planet has not always been in the exact same distance from our sun
#2 sometimes sun flares warm our planet more some years than others.
#3 our atmosphere, which holds in heat, had a much different compisition millions of years ago, being mostly ammonia and methane. (ask how it could of changed, and i point to the ammonia-nitrite-nitrate process)

our planet is either getting closer or it's getting farther away from the sun. ALL PLANETS are doing this. Orbits are not constant and forever.
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:58 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Skeorx13
Originally Posted by HeathenBrewing
Name a plant that can live 7,000 years with perfect conditions... much less with no sunlight.
Oof, as much as I hate to help out the opponents...
http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/science/8039/
Nice! Like I said, it is all about discovery!

From the website:

This one-of-a-kind plant has lived on the Earth for over 290 million years and has the ability to “come back to life” (much like the undead) over and over again for hundreds of years! Simply place this seemingly dead ball of foliage in water and within hours it transforms into a vibrant green blood-sucking evergreen. Ok, we are kidding about the blood-sucking part. It's still amazing though! It's also great for lazy folks since you can forget to water your Dinosaur plant whenever you want! It will simply dry up and hibernate for up to fifty years and will spring to life every time it is given water.

Odd that the description mentions two very different numbers, and neither one anywhere near 7K. Hmm.....sound familiar....

I do get your point though.
Old 03-30-2007 | 05:58 PM
  #95  
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You can prove through the scientific method that theories that once were considered truth are actually false. This means what? Oh yeah! It was disproved!
Old 03-30-2007 | 06:11 PM
  #96  
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There is an invisible zebra that follows me around. Since you can't disprove this is it as credible as your "god"? Why not?
Old 03-30-2007 | 06:16 PM
  #97  
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On a side note I would like to say that I am very impressed with the civility of everyone who has posted on this thread. This argument normally leads to mudslinging and other such things. Good job SL community!
Old 03-30-2007 | 06:17 PM
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If it's invisible how do you know it's there? I am assuming that would be your question about how do I know if there's a God? I don't. It is not my role to prove if there is an invisible being that watched over me. I have faith that there is. In that faith, I have beliefs that when I die I may end up in 1 of 3 places. I also believe that my savior took away everyone's original sin. The people that have faith and the ones who do not. Because of the beliefs I have and the faith I have in my God and myself I consider everyone to be equal. I don't not think I am better than you, nor do I believe anyone is better than I. Society tries to bend my faith and beliefs just as you are attempting to do now.
Old 03-30-2007 | 06:22 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by jsa3mm
If it's invisible how do you know it's there? I am assuming that would be your question about how do I know if there's a God? I don't. It is not my role to prove if there is an invisible being that watched over me. I have faith that there is. In that faith, I have beliefs that when I die I may end up in 1 of 3 places. I also believe that my savior took away everyone's original sin. The people that have faith and the ones who do not. Because of the beliefs I have and the faith I have in my God and myself I consider everyone to be equal. I don't not think I am better than you, nor do I believe anyone is better than I. Society tries to bend my faith and beliefs just as you are attempting to do now.
you know, according to your religion, I will see you on the new earth anyway, so me being an atheist, doesn't mean i won't finally arrive where you do. according to your little book. here's how it breaks down for us atheists and murderers and rapists:

I die.
I goto hell.
the world ends.
armagedon.
I then get 4 months of "the scorpoins sting"(supposedly a metaphor for the worst pain known that will cleanse my soul)
then me and you will go hand in hand to the new earth.
yay!

so we all get to hang out with child molestors (o, and hitler too) in the end.
Old 03-30-2007 | 06:23 PM
  #100  
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I'm not trying to bend anything. All I was trying to do, and did, was show you and everyone else that the belief in god is as ridiculous as the belief that an invisible zebra is following me around. I think I'll name him spike.


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