Censorship in Rap Music "again"
04-26-2007, 12:57 AM
#21
Probably won't take too long, Chris, but I'm holding off as long as possible. So far it's not too bad.
(I get to comment, too...)
As to some folks blaming me for having slaveholders as ancestors, just because of the color of my skin, I'd like to point out that my family wasn't here when that was going on, has never owned slaves to the best of our knowledge, and in their home countries were nearly slaves. IOW, don't come to ME for reparations.
Play nice, kids!
Tom
(I get to comment, too...)
As to some folks blaming me for having slaveholders as ancestors, just because of the color of my skin, I'd like to point out that my family wasn't here when that was going on, has never owned slaves to the best of our knowledge, and in their home countries were nearly slaves. IOW, don't come to ME for reparations.
Play nice, kids!
Tom
04-26-2007, 01:15 AM
#22
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i dont think its bad to censor rap music.
i'm just tired of listening to rap music when rappers talk about the same **** all the DAMN time... i'm from the ghetto, lala this n that, i'm making dollars out of nickels and dimes, sellin crack on the corner, holla at yo babys momma, i aint the daddy, you stole my peoples chocolate donuts and tried to choke them with powdered donuts, i was hustlin since i was 5, drug dealin to make money for my peeps, got my beatbox makin funky fly beats, back then they called me lil fro now they call me big fro, have to have a "Lil" in front of your rap name and think your cool, the white mans tryin to keep the black man down, etc etc.
that **** is old and played out, no one wants to hear the same crap over and over again.
nowadays i just listen to the beats, if it sounds koo i'm down
i'm just tired of listening to rap music when rappers talk about the same **** all the DAMN time... i'm from the ghetto, lala this n that, i'm making dollars out of nickels and dimes, sellin crack on the corner, holla at yo babys momma, i aint the daddy, you stole my peoples chocolate donuts and tried to choke them with powdered donuts, i was hustlin since i was 5, drug dealin to make money for my peeps, got my beatbox makin funky fly beats, back then they called me lil fro now they call me big fro, have to have a "Lil" in front of your rap name and think your cool, the white mans tryin to keep the black man down, etc etc.
that **** is old and played out, no one wants to hear the same crap over and over again.
nowadays i just listen to the beats, if it sounds koo i'm down
04-26-2007, 01:16 AM
#23
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Yea, as I read through I can't really fault anyone for having a lack of understanding of how the n-word is historically different than 'cracker' or '___'. Cracker being the response, under duress of an oppressed people, who could fault them? No one should use it today, based on the hatred associated with the word in the past and how it's inapplicable today (literally speaking). Those terms are incomparable in scope of usage through America's history. Please revisit the moral of the "Race War" South Park episode in which the kids realize they don't "get it" and that is the underlying problem and difference between the races.
That aside, I don't know anyone who is saying all white people are descendants of slave owners. If they do, they are as arrogant and ignorant as the people who don't understand the historical oppression endured by Africans in America and think the n-word was created by black people (yes, I read t hat somewhere). Tomas, you may be referring to my comment where I say America a history (a written and acted out tradition) of oppressing minority populations (in this case, Africans who were brought to America against their will, threatened, killed many of them, segregated them from the majority population based on the color of their skin, and had institutional hurdles placed in the way of this group of people from becoming truly free). That is the historical significance I am referring to. But, if it doesn't apply, let it slide.
What I'm offended more by are the people who claim we shouldn't have this debate, or that it's irrelevant, as though all of the issues have been sorted out, when they quite clearly haven't been. I love debate and hearing all viewpoints as long as they're all respected. I don't see why this thread would be closed at this point.
That aside, I don't know anyone who is saying all white people are descendants of slave owners. If they do, they are as arrogant and ignorant as the people who don't understand the historical oppression endured by Africans in America and think the n-word was created by black people (yes, I read t hat somewhere). Tomas, you may be referring to my comment where I say America a history (a written and acted out tradition) of oppressing minority populations (in this case, Africans who were brought to America against their will, threatened, killed many of them, segregated them from the majority population based on the color of their skin, and had institutional hurdles placed in the way of this group of people from becoming truly free). That is the historical significance I am referring to. But, if it doesn't apply, let it slide.
What I'm offended more by are the people who claim we shouldn't have this debate, or that it's irrelevant, as though all of the issues have been sorted out, when they quite clearly haven't been. I love debate and hearing all viewpoints as long as they're all respected. I don't see why this thread would be closed at this point.
04-26-2007, 01:18 AM
#24
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I'd like to point out a coupla things too.
1) I or my family were never slave-owners.
2) Africans sold black people to the Americans.
3) Can ANYONE show another word that only one group of people can use? I have never been able to think of one.
Jews don't call each other "*ikes"
Italians don't call each other "*aps"
Germans don't call each other "*azis"
I think to say that "white people are dying to use the "N" word is absolute BS.
I was RAISED to NEVER use such a term.
Now, my kids can hear it 30x an hour on the radio.
How does one raise children with such a double standard?
Scott
1) I or my family were never slave-owners.
2) Africans sold black people to the Americans.
3) Can ANYONE show another word that only one group of people can use? I have never been able to think of one.
Jews don't call each other "*ikes"
Italians don't call each other "*aps"
Germans don't call each other "*azis"
I think to say that "white people are dying to use the "N" word is absolute BS.
I was RAISED to NEVER use such a term.
Now, my kids can hear it 30x an hour on the radio.
How does one raise children with such a double standard?
Scott
04-26-2007, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SciontCya
I'd like to point out a coupla things too.
1) I or my family were never slave-owners.
2) Africans sold black people to the Americans.
3) Can ANYONE show another word that only one group of people can use? I have never been able to think of one.
Jews don't call each other "*ikes"
Italians don't call each other "*aps"
Germans don't call each other "*azis"
I think to say that "white people are dying to use the "N" word is absolute BS.
I was RAISED to NEVER use such a term.
Now, my kids can hear it 30x an hour on the radio.
How does one raise children with such a double standard?
Scott
1) I or my family were never slave-owners.
2) Africans sold black people to the Americans.
3) Can ANYONE show another word that only one group of people can use? I have never been able to think of one.
Jews don't call each other "*ikes"
Italians don't call each other "*aps"
Germans don't call each other "*azis"
I think to say that "white people are dying to use the "N" word is absolute BS.
I was RAISED to NEVER use such a term.
Now, my kids can hear it 30x an hour on the radio.
How does one raise children with such a double standard?
Scott
2.) A handful did but under duress themselves and threatened with their own enslavement or death (let me see, what would you do?)
3.) What's your exposure to cultures other than your own? I have ___ friends who use derogatory terms amongst themselves. I know white girls, black girls, hispanic girls, asian girls that call each other _____es, ho's, skanks, etc.. and laugh it off. That's irrelevant though and an attempt to rationalize an excuse for using the n-word without being sensitive to the historical significance of the word. Why would it matter who uses it and for what reason?
Regarding the rest of your post..
I think the general consensus is that any word that marginalizes an individual is deplorable when used with that intent. Atleast, that's my thought on the matter. Historically, at some point.. when black men referred to each other, they would use positive affirming words such as "bro - brother, son, god, etc.." and the word _____ was used by a few people as a greeting. Albeit a misguided effort, it stuck and became popular. That's where we are now. It's unlikely that a white man who's a stranger will find it in their lexicon to greet a black man as '_____' and not reflect on the historical significance of that word (or a word like it) coming from a white man. Who doesn't get that? I don't think I can make it any more clear. And this is going to be my last post here
Edit: I hope you raise your children by explaining to them the historical meaning of the word. If you don't have an understanding of the word itself, the true history of it, I can dig up some great resources. Don't fall prey to the media however, who hasn't a clue about many things that go on in this world, let alone hip hop and black culture.
04-26-2007, 01:30 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by scion04xb
yeah your right but I just dont get it people have there heads up thier a$$es... like black people still blaming us still for beating them and making them slaves. yo wtf? its not like we were the onlys doing it. It was done in africa for year and years before it happen here we were just smart enough to figure out wow that messed up and number 2 it happen how many years go? hum 200? maybe less maybe more but still along time ago. Get over it! The jews had it worse trust me. i mean hell they still fighting for jerusalem.....but thats a whole nother story.....
im your slave till the end; thats why we go to IHOP and you dont pay anything.
slave owner.
btw i saw your car at pepe boys today, are you working there again?
EDIT- yes i meant "pepe" boys; a place where anything goes.
04-26-2007, 01:41 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Vincenzo
Originally Posted by SciontCya
I'd like to point out a coupla things too.
1) I or my family were never slave-owners.
2) Africans sold black people to the Americans.
3) Can ANYONE show another word that only one group of people can use? I have never been able to think of one.
Jews don't call each other "*ikes"
Italians don't call each other "*aps"
Germans don't call each other "*azis"
I think to say that "white people are dying to use the "N" word is absolute BS.
I was RAISED to NEVER use such a term.
Now, my kids can hear it 30x an hour on the radio.
How does one raise children with such a double standard?
Scott
1) I or my family were never slave-owners.
2) Africans sold black people to the Americans.
3) Can ANYONE show another word that only one group of people can use? I have never been able to think of one.
Jews don't call each other "*ikes"
Italians don't call each other "*aps"
Germans don't call each other "*azis"
I think to say that "white people are dying to use the "N" word is absolute BS.
I was RAISED to NEVER use such a term.
Now, my kids can hear it 30x an hour on the radio.
How does one raise children with such a double standard?
Scott
2.) A handful did but under duress themselves and threatened with their own enslavement or death (let me see, what would you do?)
3.) What's your exposure to cultures other than your own? I have ___ friends who use derogatory terms amongst themselves. I know white girls, black girls, hispanic girls, asian girls that call each other _____es, ho's, skanks, etc.. and laugh it off. That's irrelevant though and an attempt to rationalize an excuse for using the n-word without being sensitive to the historical significance of the word. Why would it matter who uses it and for what reason?
Regarding the rest of your post..
I think the general consensus is that any word that marginalizes an individual is deplorable when used with that intent. Atleast, that's my thought on the matter. Historically, at some point.. when black men referred to each other, they would use positive affirming words such as "bro - brother, son, god, etc.." and the word Ignorant Person was used by a few people as a greeting. Albeit a misguided effort, it stuck and became popular. That's where we are now. It's unlikely that a white man who's a stranger will find it in their lexicon to greet a black man as 'Ignorant Person' and not reflect on the historical significance of that word (or a word like it) coming from a white man. Who doesn't get that? I don't think I can make it any more clear. And this is going to be my last post here
Edit: I hope you raise your children by explaining to them the historical meaning of the word. If you don't have an understanding of the word itself, the true history of it, I can dig up some great resources. Don't fall prey to the media however, who hasn't a clue about many things that go on in this world, let alone hip hop and black culture.
I work and live in a very diverse city/business - I work in the music biz, and frankly, some of the rappers we're discussing I see regularly.
I know the historical meanings, and that doesn't make it easier to explain it's use today, and in fact, the opposite.
Funny, I think the media have shoved "black culture" down our throats in the last 10 years. We DO tolerate behaviors based on race. Look around.
What price did Jessie Jackson pay for "Hymietown'?
What price did Al Sharpton pay for Tawana Brawley?
Did either of those two fools apologize for trying to convict the Duke lacrosse players in the media?
How many times are blacks tried/convicted for "hate crimes"?
Vice-versa?
The BIG problem is special treatment, or, different rules for different folks.
As Seattle Dave said, that just separates races.
04-26-2007, 01:47 AM
#28
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lol..Man this topic went to a few "side bar issues"...lol...
Hip Hop isnt that bad as for lang. these days...Actually in the words of NAS:
"Hip Hop is Dead"....The Hip Hop they play on the radio disgusts me...
The other day I heard a song called " I want a Myspace Freak"...WTF!!!!!!!!!
I wish Hip Hop would be more like the 80's and early 90's favor..it was all about Rhym'in and Flow'in....etc...etc....w/ of course Good Beats!..
I like the 90's Gangsta Rap stuff....That great driving beats!!...because of NWA and their foul lang. it got the Media's attendtion..Thus selling Millions of records..
Like I said Hip Hop today is Dead...NO creativity Stoopid Lyrics & Topics!!!!
Hip Hop isnt that bad as for lang. these days...Actually in the words of NAS:
"Hip Hop is Dead"....The Hip Hop they play on the radio disgusts me...
The other day I heard a song called " I want a Myspace Freak"...WTF!!!!!!!!!
I wish Hip Hop would be more like the 80's and early 90's favor..it was all about Rhym'in and Flow'in....etc...etc....w/ of course Good Beats!..
I like the 90's Gangsta Rap stuff....That great driving beats!!...because of NWA and their foul lang. it got the Media's attendtion..Thus selling Millions of records..
Like I said Hip Hop today is Dead...NO creativity Stoopid Lyrics & Topics!!!!
04-26-2007, 01:53 AM
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TeeCizzle. Yea, I don't listen to the radio much at all aside from some satellite radio channels on Sirius (Shade45 - for exclusives and new releases, and BackSpin for oldschool, sometimes Hip Hop Nation). Anyway.. there's still some great rap music being produced, but those in control of radio stations, music video channels and record labels only want a certain product being marketed to young black youth, and the world as a whole. Take Little Brother for instance, he couldn't get his video on BET because it was "too smart for our demographic" and artists like Che Grand, the Justus League, Moka Only, and other great hiphop artists are being stifled.
It's crazy, really good music is underground and the cheap, cookie cutter music is popular. I can't blame people though, they've been weened onto this crap since the early 90's. Now weening them off it is going to be the more difficult task.
There used to be a time where I could defend rap music, now that's gotten more difficult with what's allowed to come out. I listen to it all still, some new music I really enjoy as long as I can distinguish the difference between it and what I consider crap. But, I grew up on 90's hiphop. I was 10 in 1990, so, that's about right. Luckily, I've grown in taste, with age and now like a more sophisticated brand of rap music, that mixes soul, revolutionary mantras and positive affirmation.
It's crazy, really good music is underground and the cheap, cookie cutter music is popular. I can't blame people though, they've been weened onto this crap since the early 90's. Now weening them off it is going to be the more difficult task.
There used to be a time where I could defend rap music, now that's gotten more difficult with what's allowed to come out. I listen to it all still, some new music I really enjoy as long as I can distinguish the difference between it and what I consider crap. But, I grew up on 90's hiphop. I was 10 in 1990, so, that's about right. Luckily, I've grown in taste, with age and now like a more sophisticated brand of rap music, that mixes soul, revolutionary mantras and positive affirmation.
04-26-2007, 01:57 AM
#31
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TeeCizzle, are you on Last.fm? I can suggest some music for you. Here's my profile:
http://www.last.fm/user/attila/
http://www.last.fm/user/attila/
04-26-2007, 02:05 AM
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there are supposed to be four parts of hip hop which are b-boys (dancing), MC (lyrics), DJ (music), and graffiti (art)...
nowadays the MC is the most important part and they get all of the credit. Most of the beats are made by people you've never heard of, graffiti and hip hop art is almost dead, and b-boys and dance are practically forgotten...
nas is definitely right in saying hip hop is dead. It's driven by money only, as is everything.
I want to see some rappers bring it back with lyrics like those that biggie graced us with. Beef rappers are wack, and their music is terrible. Club rappers are cool to dance to but I don't want to hear that all day long on the radio...
And with the influx of all of these wack pop rappers like Chris Brown, bow wow, the genre is headed off a clif. Hip-hop rap is not only dead but it is going to get a lot worse...
nowadays the MC is the most important part and they get all of the credit. Most of the beats are made by people you've never heard of, graffiti and hip hop art is almost dead, and b-boys and dance are practically forgotten...
nas is definitely right in saying hip hop is dead. It's driven by money only, as is everything.
I want to see some rappers bring it back with lyrics like those that biggie graced us with. Beef rappers are wack, and their music is terrible. Club rappers are cool to dance to but I don't want to hear that all day long on the radio...
And with the influx of all of these wack pop rappers like Chris Brown, bow wow, the genre is headed off a clif. Hip-hop rap is not only dead but it is going to get a lot worse...
04-26-2007, 02:08 AM
#33
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and yea back on topic, rap will always be protested and censored as it is a rebellious type of music. Over time it will become accepted as normal just like rock or jazz was, but until that time it will continue to stand as the rebellious music of our time...
04-26-2007, 02:13 AM
#35
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You can be rebellious without saying "N"
Rock has been rebellious and while a few songs have f-bombs, it's mostly the attitude and attire and behavior that made it so.
Grunge was mean/angry/honest and was great.
Elvis was rebellious without profanity.
Justifying bad behavior has become politically correct.
Rock has been rebellious and while a few songs have f-bombs, it's mostly the attitude and attire and behavior that made it so.
Grunge was mean/angry/honest and was great.
Elvis was rebellious without profanity.
Justifying bad behavior has become politically correct.
04-26-2007, 02:16 AM
#36
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WOW!!...I got like 2 or 3 "agrees" on what I said!..Yay 4 me!!
Thanks Guys!!...Yea I take music almost as Serious as I do w/ Cars!!
Yea..Radio is SO extremely bad
..I am Glad I got Satellite Radio!!! 
Vincenzo: Nope I never heard of that...lol..I will check it out!!
Yea I listen to BackSpin, Hip Hop nation(sometimes)..then some other channels..
Because of the Lame Hip Hop that is being produced these days! I had to Open my Ears to other types of Music...etc...
Thanks Guys!!...Yea I take music almost as Serious as I do w/ Cars!!
Yea..Radio is SO extremely bad
..I am Glad I got Satellite Radio!!! Vincenzo: Nope I never heard of that...lol..I will check it out!!
Yea I listen to BackSpin, Hip Hop nation(sometimes)..then some other channels..
Because of the Lame Hip Hop that is being produced these days! I had to Open my Ears to other types of Music...etc...
04-26-2007, 05:10 AM
#38
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My 2 cents..
I listen to EVERYTHING.
But I hate the crunk BS, especially the stuff here in the east bay. It's completely dirty and nasty.
For ONE, it should not be played on the radio and
TWO yes, they should stop saying certain words. I'm part black, but that doesn't mean its okay for me to go around and calling people "*iggers" I might say it to my friend, we might use it as a way to identify each other as "homeboys" if you will.
I'm going to use african americans as an example purely because they the majority in the rap and hip hop genre... And you know, rap is fine. I like rap and hip hop that is real. That tells a story. That has musical talent and perspective in it. Not overused beats and curse words, and words that are degrading to women. I think its wrong. Not to say that some rock artists don't degrade women, but in rap and hip hop, its almost OKAY to. Yeah sure, it wouldn't be hip hop if you started following a damn guideline and rulebook, but is it necessary to talk about "*itches and h*es" ?
It's disappointing how rich some of these guys can get, making a few words rhyme and making up random crap and degrading people.
anyway, im too tired to go into this deep. so ill stop there
I listen to EVERYTHING.
But I hate the crunk BS, especially the stuff here in the east bay. It's completely dirty and nasty.
For ONE, it should not be played on the radio and
TWO yes, they should stop saying certain words. I'm part black, but that doesn't mean its okay for me to go around and calling people "*iggers" I might say it to my friend, we might use it as a way to identify each other as "homeboys" if you will.
I'm going to use african americans as an example purely because they the majority in the rap and hip hop genre... And you know, rap is fine. I like rap and hip hop that is real. That tells a story. That has musical talent and perspective in it. Not overused beats and curse words, and words that are degrading to women. I think its wrong. Not to say that some rock artists don't degrade women, but in rap and hip hop, its almost OKAY to. Yeah sure, it wouldn't be hip hop if you started following a damn guideline and rulebook, but is it necessary to talk about "*itches and h*es" ?
It's disappointing how rich some of these guys can get, making a few words rhyme and making up random crap and degrading people.
anyway, im too tired to go into this deep. so ill stop there
04-26-2007, 06:18 AM
#39
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My problem is when i hear a song that openly talks about for example, 'owning women as if they were livestock, committing random acts of violence for fun, or spending money on bling while your wife and kids sit at home with no electricity or food. That truly offends me.
Maybe someone reading this thread wont say anything, but i will. In my family's past, we did own a plantation that had slaves. Now all of that land belongs to their families.
Should i say that i am personally sorry..i dont think so. I had nothing to do with it, so stop judging me.
Am i sorry that it happened? .....yes, very much so. It was a crime against humanity.
I was raised in a very anti-racism home. I am extremely intolerant of any injustice opposed upon the rights of every living human being (see abortion thread, atheism v theism, etc)
I dont care if you are African American, Anglo-American, Asian, Hispanic, Native American, Islander, etc. Everyone deserves the same rights no matter what nation, religion, sex, creed.
Groups like the KKK are no longer the groups that are majorly spreading racism. It is now our own culture that accepts it.
The point of telling racial jokes these days like carlos mencia or dave chapelle is not to make fun of themselves...but rather to make fun of the qualities that seperate each race.
Everyone needs to stop focusing on why these terms separate, but rather how we can make it so they bring us together.
just my $0.02
Maybe someone reading this thread wont say anything, but i will. In my family's past, we did own a plantation that had slaves. Now all of that land belongs to their families.
Should i say that i am personally sorry..i dont think so. I had nothing to do with it, so stop judging me.
Am i sorry that it happened? .....yes, very much so. It was a crime against humanity.
I was raised in a very anti-racism home. I am extremely intolerant of any injustice opposed upon the rights of every living human being (see abortion thread, atheism v theism, etc)
I dont care if you are African American, Anglo-American, Asian, Hispanic, Native American, Islander, etc. Everyone deserves the same rights no matter what nation, religion, sex, creed.
Groups like the KKK are no longer the groups that are majorly spreading racism. It is now our own culture that accepts it.
The point of telling racial jokes these days like carlos mencia or dave chapelle is not to make fun of themselves...but rather to make fun of the qualities that seperate each race.
Everyone needs to stop focusing on why these terms separate, but rather how we can make it so they bring us together.
just my $0.02