tC4italy

Statistics in this case are very unreliable
Few women report abuse, let alone rapes

citizen01

You guys crack me up. The verse you are looking for is genesis 9:6. I have read the bible a few times and I laugh my *ss off when you guys stumble around trying to tell me what you believe. Don't ever accuse me of just using soundbites when that is all you use yourself.

citizen01

Oh and since genesis is old testament all it proves is that christians pick and choose what they want to believe. They toss animal sacrifices but not other barbaric practices. It's hillarious.

SecretAgentMonkey

True, statistics are unreliable. Many lawmakers write clauses into the abortion bills requiring an exemption for rape. I still believe you're taking the life of an innocent person and is still wrong. But rape is a situation where I can understand/empathize with the other side even if I completely disagree.

matt_a

I don't believe anyone here accused you of not knowing or reading the Bible. And who was "stumbling around" looking for that verse? I really don't understand your sudden hostility. I thought we were having a good discussion.

citizen01

matt,
yeah that was harsh. Truly sorry. It was in response to secretangent monkey saying people like dave and citizen. The stumbling comment was a result of nobody just saying "look at genesis 9:6". Again, that came off more hostile than I meant it.

SecretAgentMonkey

You're right, I was stumbling because I didn't know where in Romans my argument was. Yes, Genesis established capital punishment was acceptable. And Exodus is where they establish killing as wrong. But I do believe the whole Bible is the Word of God. Including Romans 13 which doesn't refute the other verses, it backs them up.

Hmm...interesting...you don't think Christians should use the Old Testament in arguments? It's still part of our Bible. It's still the foundation for Jesus' teachings. He believed what the Old Testament said. He did change things. But He didn't say capital punishment was suddenly wrong. One of his closest disciples, however, defined what was acceptable capital punishment.

You're right, we don't do animal sacrifices anymore. But that was because of Jesus. The animal sacrifices were done in ancient times to please God. But Jesus took the place of that. We now please God through Him. So I'm not tossing away animal sacrifices, I just don't need them anymore.

tC4italy

I Romans

dCvingtC

The prison's are overcrowded. People are arrested and thrown in jail for extended periods of time for actions that weren't as much of an issue years ago. ( Or were but the laws have changed. )

Sending everyone who commits a crime to prison, is bogus. Now I am not saying that we should just slap them on the wrist and tell them to be on their way, but crimes that warranted a couple of months in the past have now turned in to multiple years. Hence overcrowding.

Now for those on death row, get rid of them. They are taking up space that could be used for others. Those with recurring life sentences, with no chance of parole, get rid of them too. What's the point in making them suffer for their crimes when they are only going to die in prison anyway.

As far as I'm concerned, if you killed someone than you deserve to be killed yourself.

SecretAgentMonkey

Actually my accusations of playing soundbites comes from someone using "turn the other cheek" and wotnot, which is a very knee-jerk quote, without actually looking at what the rest of the Bible said.

I didn't bring up the exact Genesis quote because I wanted to show people the New Testament said something about it too. Because there seems to be even more hostility to the Old Testament here. So I'll use the teachings of Jesus or his disciples to make my case. (though I did bring up the OT in a previous post to further my arguement).

scionofPCFL

But if the Bible was written by God, through man, then this should have been covered. Man wouldn't have known anything about it, but surely God would have, and would have had some colorful language to describe what he wanted to not happen.

However, what you say fit's more in tune to the notion that the Bible was written by man, of what he thought God would have wanted.

SecretAgentMonkey

Alright. To answer the question of the thread.

I believe capital punishment is acceptable as punishment to murder. And for those who brought religion into it. I also believe God sanctions governments to execute criminals for this purpose.

tC4italy

huh? that's kind of confusing...
That IS the entire point; to make them suffer.
What better way to do that than let them rot to death and have nothing to look forward to in their lives?

matt_a

There have already been Scripture verses quoted here which clearly show us that God values human life in the womb. The issue of abortion is covered in the Bible under the ten commandments. As I said earlier, the original Hebrew text is much closer to "Thou shalt not murder" which is the taking of an innocent life.

citizen01

Depending on how you are definning murder and also what the person is innocent of.

For example can you put a guilty burglar to death?... See?

SecretAgentMonkey

Or written by God for man, in a way man can understand at any point in history. The Bible doesn't say anything about abortion but talks about God's value in a person before they were born. The Bible doesn't say homosexuality is a sin but talks about the sin of man laying down with man. Heck, the Bible doesn't talk about the Trinity but describes the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as three in one. Words like "abortion", "homosexuality" and the like are more modern terms used to describe these things. Things that the Bible talks about in terms that people could understand before these words were in existence.

To me, you're argument here is like someone saying "don't set foot in my house" so you come in walking on your knees. Afterall, they didn't say "don't set knee in my house."

citizen01

By the way... If it is closer to "murder" and not "kill" then why is it "kill" in our english texts? Hmmm...

SecretAgentMonkey

No. According the verse you yourself pointed out, a burglar did not shed blood so his blood cannot be shed.

citizen01

matt said murder is the taking of innocent life without defining innocent. I was attempting to clarify.

dCvingtC

We are making them suffer...yes. But if they are going to sit there until they die, then just get rid of them.

Our tax dollars go to keeping these filthy scum around so that they can think about what they did. Some regret it ( or so they do ), some don't care.

The prisons should be saved for those that are getting the reform and may have a chance to try a new existance after prison, although the statistics aren't in their favor.