oldmanatee

I am for it 100%, we need to use it more often.

When someone shows a complete disreguard for the laws of a civilized society, they no longer deserve to live in said society. I know for a fact that if the penal system worked they way it is supposed to I wouldn't have nearly been killed by a recent release a few years back.

I know this is wrong, but my narrow mind thinks that if a person is innocent, he can find a way to prove it...Have a fair trial. We need better lawyers, not more lawyers.

citizen01

oldmanatee... Are you christian? You realize this goes against your "christian" beliefs right?

(looks like we are again on opposite sides of the spectrum )

TheRealBen

Let's look at the Jean Benet Ramsey case for a perfect example of that. The guy confessed to doing it, but then the detectives determined that there was no way he was guilty of the crime he confessed to.

___MmmBoxy___

I believe in an eye for an eye. Legal style of course.

If you murder someone, you deserve to die as well. (But then what do we say about someone who has an abortion? I still stick to it. You kill 'em, you die too!)

I am very strong about this. Murderers should NOT go free. Some people think they can change....no, they can't. You can't make a ___ man straight, and you can't make a murderer a lover.

~Stephanie

oldmanatee

Perhaps we are, but my Christian beliefs tell me to love the sinner, not the sin. The Bible I believe in states that all worldly actions have worldly consequences. You break man's law, you pay man's price. Now, if the person that was justly executed has found God then all the better. He can stand in front of the Creator and proudly say, "Yes, I killed on earth, but I asked for forgiveness and paid my debt"

To be honest, I have never really delt with an atheist before, so, when I mis-speak, forgive me... I'm new at this. (But, I know that you are a fair man, already)

My turn to ask you a q...Have you ever looked down the barrell of a gun held by a confirmed killer?

scionofPCFL

In the never ending debate about capital punishment, I don't think anybody has ever argued for the release of murderers. I could be wrong, but that's usually not an option. Usually how it goes is, 1) Death Penalty or 2) Life in prison with zero chance of paroll (i.e. the only way you leave is in a pine box)

TheRealBen

Not 100%, the bible is very hypocritical...not to mention written by man.

The bible, both old and new testaments contradict themselves about turning the other cheek and punishing those that earn their punishment.

But then, if you want ot say the bible says to turn the other cheek, why do we even have laws or prisons? If you are to turn the other cheek, then people should just forgive one another for evcery horrible crime that is committed.

You get raped, don't be angry, forgive them for raping you.

citizen01

No matter how you rationalize it God said very clearly "Thou shalt not kill". (Actually he didn't cause he doesn't exist but that is what you believe is the direct word of god.) Also jesus preached to turn the other cheek. (Again... no he didn't but this is what you believe.)

Can't say that I have. I wish, would have been a perfect time to demonstrate my ninja skills. (or get shot.)

citizen01

Realben... you make a decent point. However just to clear this up... old/new testaments do not "contradict" in the christian faith because the new replaced the old not added to it.
In regards to turning the other cheek... maybe there is gray area for criminals however I know of no gray area in the bible when it comes to murder, and capitol punishment IS murder.

krustytheclown

How does the old and new testament contradict themselves? Examples.

If we treated people correctly, didn't rob/kill/commit adultry, we would have no need for prisions.

The reason this world is f'd up is because the people are f'd up. Its not Gods fault or his words fault. Its the peoples fault.

The bible was written by man through Gods direction.

If I paid someguy to write a book for me, but I came up with the story, but the the guy wrote it, Who wrote it?

oldmanatee

I have... and you will forever be changed by it. And not doubting your ninja skills, a 45 is quicker.
God told us to follow His laws.To punish those that do not follow His laws. Jesus is the earthly form of God, the same being, just able to take on the form of man. Jesus said to turn the other cheek when we are wronged, not when we are killed. We are to defend to the death the soverignty of order. We are given the good sense to know that the lawbreakers death is better than the lawkeepers death.

___MmmBoxy___

Very true...but I would say "you get raped? Don't be angry. Offer the back as well!"

That is stupid. I do not believe in the bible or any religion. Religion is a crutch. You should learn to make decisions for yourself instead of having some old man from way back when (who was probably on drugs) decide for you. Have some freedom in your own mind! Don't rely on someone else to solve your problems!! You have cancer? Don't pray to some "unseen ghost-man that will save you even though he never answered any of your other prayers"....believe in yourself. You have to fight for yourself, not have some "belief" cure you. You are the only cure. God is not.

And I don't care if I die tonight, I will always believe that.



Oh and scionofPCFL, I was not saying they "go free" as in live on the streets and such, I am saying they should not "go free" as in LIVE. They should DIE and be ashamed.

~Stephanie

citizen01

"We are given the good sense to know that the lawbreakers death is better than the lawkeepers death."

You act like it is one or the other. You can say that the bible leaves room for us to make our own judgement all you want but God still said "thou shalt not kill". Now if you can find a new testament verse saying "if you are really upset cause someone wronged you disobey my commandment and go ahed and kill him" let me know.

seattledave

god made man, and he knows the future, right?

See, If I made a robot capable of killing, and through it's programming I made, knew it was going to kill someone, but I did nothing to change it, but instead unleashed it upon the world, WHO IS THE MURDERER?

some, but the first 5 books are supposed to be directly god's word, as transcribed by man.

the guy who wrote it, but then why do people believe in the bible, if just man made it up?

___MmmBoxy___

It might not be that clear and straight forward.

~Stephanie

citizen01

Was that directed to me? If so I think it was "clear" enough and "straight forward" enough when he said "god shalt not kill". Being that it's all a fairy tale anyways I don't really care but somebody has to point out the hypocracy.

TheRealBen

The old testament contradicts itself, as does the new testament.

But still, I wil lalways hold fast that the bible was written by men. I do believe in the idea of God and am a relatively moral person, but I try not to put too much worth into the bible or any written script about it because it was written by men in their point of view.

Don't try to argue that it was written by man through God's driection, because that is not true and connot be true. It was written by a bunch of men that wanted a way to control their people, nothing more.

Societies all over the world throughout the history of religion have used their religion as a way of controlling their people.

tC4italy

not gonna read all 3 pages just cos i'm lazy but

1. I'm against it
2. as backseatcris said on the first page, it's murder so yr no less of a beast than they are
3. for someone that might come ask me 'what if it were yr daughter/son/mom/dad/sister?" I'd say the same. I'd rather know that the bastard is in jail and looks at a whole life of living in a cell than have a "way out" by death.

One thing which I can close my eyes on is rapists and especially child molestors. in that case I'd just tie the person in the middle of the street and let the family of the victims decide her/his fate.

___MmmBoxy___

Great point.

Oh, and no it wasn't directed towards you, it was directed towards your comment.

I was a Christian for years (not knowing what a waste of my time it was. I was young and vulnerable.) and there were many things in the bible that were "hidden". Pretty much the pastor could say whatever he wanted by wording it right. Just like for the longest time, I actually believed that if I prayed to myself at night my prayers would come true. No, it's not true. No matter how hard you try to please him.

~Stephanie

scionofPCFL

If you kill someone who was about to kill a dozen innocent people, does that still make you a beast? or are you more of a beast for having the opportunity to save the dozen innocents by murder, and opting not to do it?