seattledave

see that tc4italy?

scionofPCFL

There is mountains of evidence to suggest a massive flooding about 5000 years ago.
Well that's one view. Another view is that it just happened because that's what nature does, and then humans later made up stories to explain what they saw as the unexplainable, because that's what people do.
you have a very limited imagination. Remember the buebonic plauge? I'm sure that was fairly bad, and that was just a few hundred years ago.
And a tool to controld people as well. It wasn't really that long ago that <5% of the population could even read, imagine what it was like 500, 1000, or even 1500 years ago.

seattledave

we've covered this, if all the ice in the entire world melted, sea level would raise a mere 215 feet.
Meaning, any animal or man could simply run up a small hill, to escape god's "great flood". (either way, even if there was such a flood, nearly all sea life would die from hyposalinity, the bible's authors didn't know about how fragile sea life is in flucuating salinity. i've kept saltwater tanks for 6+ years now, I know, as does every biologist in the world does)

___MmmBoxy___

It said it in the BIBLE!!!!

If you are saying that people put things in the bible just ranomly, to "explain what they saw", then you could say that jesus didn't in fact walk on water, but he was just on a shallow sand bank and it only looked llike he was walking on water.

And Moses parting the sea? Where they walking through an aquarium???

At least you agree with me on the whole religion is a crutch thing.

~Stephanie

tC4italy

And? Not many like this Pope anyway lol

I'll be back once we start talking about the REAL topic

scionofPCFL

Dave, it isn't speculation, it happened. The evidence is in and it's final, nobody disputes a flood about 5000 years ago of bibilical proportions (except apparently you).

I didn't say a "global" flood, just a massive flood, and no, I didn't say it was from the ice melting. It might have been the "40 days and 40 nights" raining. Now, stay with me for a second. When you are on a river bank, 10" of ran can translate it into a 4 foot rise in a river level, or even more. I've seen inner tubes in trees 30 feet above the river (how far up do you think you could toss an inner tube) from simply rain....lots and lots of rain. IOW, I've seen with my own eyes how a a little rain turns into a lot of flooding.

Now, where do 80% of the world's population live today, with highly technologically advanced farming techniques? Oh yeah, on or near the frickin water.

Did I say the planet was wiped out by the flood? No. But it was a catastrophic event, nonetheless. Might have to do with the lack of doppler radar, lack of communication, lack of transportation with only donkeys and horses, and then combined with what can happen in flash flood situations.

seattledave

so you're saying maybe the next pope will single-handely change catholism's view on being pro-life?

any other "catholic's" here that are pro-choice?

seattledave

post a link, ANY LINK (could be pro-christian even, i don't care) that shows evidence that the world was under water, with sea level more than even 215 feet higher. please please do. be the first man in the world to show evidence for this. I bring up "215 feet", because if all water, ice or whatever form of water you want was dumped into the ocean, then all that we'd see is 215 feet increase(besides a constant 120+degree earth temperature)

19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered....
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered....
And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

really musta been higher than 215 feet, huh?

Maybe you're talking abuot the "water vapor canopy" theory creationists have come up with(that requires a surface temperature higher than venus's)? or the mysterious oceans of water that are buried undernearth the earth's crust that have since been replaced with an equal amount of magma and rock.

now stay with me, when you throw out "rain", you mean fresh water pouring from the sky, right? Do you know how quickly things like anemones, and most marine animals die when you change the amount of salt in water by even 2-3%? minutes to hours. your bible says 7 months of water so high it covered mountains, and at least mt ararat(16,854 ft above sealevel), right? that would change salinity to such a extreme degree that freshwater animals would survive in it.

maybe not you, but the bible states: "And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man"

scionofPCFL

Uhm, I didn't say ANYthing about the world be covered in water, that was apparently you jumping to conclusions....again.
have you read ANYthing I've ever written?
I didn't say anything about the bible, or quote from it.

citizen01

So you are just saying that there has been a flood before? Seriously? We needed scientists to tell us that?

seattledave

ok, tell me about this other big flood. is it on par with what happens in the plain states every year? how high up did it get? got any links?

ok, i assumed (my bad), you were talking about what people refer to as "the great flood". If you're talking about something else, please explain.

scionofPCFL

What I'm refering to are the various flood myths from various ancient civilizations from various parts of the world, that seem to refer to an event that happened roughly about the same time. It's beyond coincidence.

Now, I thought that was some geological evidence, but apparently there isn't.

Nope, but if you imagine being an ancient peasant during a high plains flood, or even one of the various ones that happen in Texas every year, then just use your imagination as to how you'd tell the story if you survived. Now, let's not look at the floods that happen every year, let's look at the floods that we know happen once every 100 years, and the ones that happen once every 500 years (if you've ever shopped for real estate within 50 miles of water, you better know what I'm talking about). Now, imagine being that same peasant farmer when one of these things happen.

The stories you see in the Bible and other places that describe waters covering mountains, well let's just chalk that up to hyperbole, fish stories, and poetic license, mmm k? Obviously, that didn't happen.

scionofPCFL

This is what a 100 year flood (a 1% chance it will happen in any given year) looks like (one week of continuous rains, just ONE week). note the street sign





Care to imagine what a 500 year flood looks like? What about a 5000 year flood?

___MmmBoxy___

I'll cue you in. We are talking about the flood that happened when Noah built his arc and everything.

Also, I have a great point, guys......

In order for there to be rain, there has to be precipitation, and precipitation comes from water on earth, so it's a never ending cycle, right? So where did all this EXTRA water come from that was able to cover the whole earth???

Dave quoted from the bible, and it said that even the mountains were covered. Imagine that in your head......that means a whole WORLD covered with water! Where did it come from? Did it multiply??

~Stephanie

citizen01

^ouch steph.

I said what I said in response to this comment. Apparently he was NOT talking about noah's flood.

seattledave

I'm well aware of a few different civilizations mentions of flooding, but various parts of the world? all the myths I know about this, persian, sumerian, egyptian and christian all are about in the same part of the world. Tell me about mayan or australian or some other various part of the world accounts of the flood that covered their mountains.

Look, i know there are stories of a great flood from a few different cultures. I read history, mythology and science books for fun, but people tall-taling about the biggest flood ever to ACTUALLY happen and "water covering the mountains for over 7 months" is a lot different, right?

Wow that's a "little" different than your phrase:

Look, no apology necessary, you probably know you look dumb enough now. next time, participate in the theological debates we have and learn something. a lot of us here have already gone over the flood ad nauseum.

i spent the first 16 years of my life in texas, and no one ever talked about building boats or not by the biggest stretch of the imagination were mountain ranges being covered in water.

The first 5 books are said to be the direct word of god dictated to moses. again, i went to christian school. Genesis is not supposed to be like "John's account of knowing jesus", it's supposed to be factual accounts that god and only god knows abuot.

wait....are you saying some of the bible is false? or are you just wanting to say "some of it may be exagerated", so that you don't anger the christian god?

scionofPCFL

Actually I was talking about Noah's flood. I'm just tossing out the hyperbole and fish stories from the Bible, and inserting what I know about floods and how people react to them today, and exptrapolating what it must have been like 5 or 6000 years ago to a simple farmer's mind.

___MmmBoxy___

Oh, so THAT'S what you were talking about????

I think we were ALL talking about Noah's flood.

What's your point?

~Stephanie

scionofPCFL

Ok, Dave you're right, there's never been a big flood. Never, not once in the 10,000 years of human civilization has there ever been a flood more than whatever you've seen in Texas and the high plains. I mean, really, I have no idea why civil engineers even bother to engineer for, what must be pure myth, the so called floods that happen only once every 100, 500, or 5000 years. Oh boy do I feel foolish now, thanks for setting me straight.

citizen01

Ok... if scoinofwherever says that he is not talking about the earth being covered in water then he can't be talking about noah's flood. Are the only people that have read the bible the two atheists on this thread?