scionofPCFL

Dave is saying there's never been a great flood (the one refering to Noah, and ancient civilaztions all over the ancient Mid-East world (excuse me, I forgot to qualify) because he can't believe the entire world was covered in water, up to the mountain tops, and neither can I. However, as many times as I agree with that, he still thinks I'm stuck on the literal bible story.

Like I said, it didn't happen exactly like the bible said, becuase it couldn't, and it wasn't even close. But I have zero doubt in my mind that flood that has only been witnessed and recorded once in human history did happen. And if happened again today, say in the Ohio River Valley, it would be a catstrophic event.

backseatchris

No one doubts that areas have flash floods every once and a while. Water levels can raise 10 feet in areas during flash floods.
If you look back though, most of these places are either in low level areas, or surrounded by mountains.

In the low level areas, water just collects and builds up because the saturated earth cannot absorb it fast enough.

In the mountains, the water collects and travels down the mountain to the lower level areas, where water can collect until it is absorbed.

These are really the only ways water can collect in mass amounts very quickly.
The great flood that covered the earth never happened. It may have covered the area where those people lived, but not the whole earth. Even then thats a stretch.

The point is religion is a crutch for the unexplainable.
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Also, the Pope not being very well liked is no reason to not follow a church law thats been in place for a looooooooong time. He just has the ***** to enforce something so controversal. Church law says that an abortion is a grave sin which is punishable by an automatic excommunication, under all circumstances (even rape, incest, mom will die).

So you really have to be all or nothing, since the peopel in the middle are not really considered real catholics by the church, so much so they seem willing to kick you out.

seattledave

i have never, ever denied big floods happening, but you said there is evidence to support the bible's great flood, but then you say there's not.

Which flood are you specifically talking about? You just said yes you were talking about noah's flood, but that it was exaggerated, but not by much, being other cultures have mentioned it too.
So was it just a little flood then?
Was water rising a just couple feet up along some river bank, for but a few days?

You tell me.

the bible says "covers mountains" which i think we both agree is an exaggeration, but what's actually plausible? Is "the great flood" really a story about water coming up to about people's waists for a few days or even a week?

what do you think?

scionofPCFL

Ok, let me try a different approach here.

Noah's flood described in the bible is a simple fish story that someone is explaining what they caught, and they say they caught a whale.

The actual flood that most likely did happen, and I am not a Christian was simply a larger than normal trout.

___MmmBoxy___

You have a valid point.

And also...."most people don't really LIKE this pope" I think was the quote? Well he is your leader, right? He is your god's translator? Well isn't it a SIN to not LIKE someone. Aren't you supposed to love everyone equally???? Even your enemies????

Hmmm....Someone please explain this to me?

~Stephanie

seattledave

but didn't you get your ideas of your god from christianity?

___MmmBoxy___

Notice all the people on here that were forced (or chose) to be a christian, are now against religion......does that say something???

Religion is something for people that can't believe in themselves believe.

~Stephanie

backseatchris

My opinion is that there was a localized, small flood in the area, that was probably a lot more catostrophic than we think. A lot of homes were made of clay bricks at the time, and drenched clay under the pressure of water and the rest of the house, tends to fail and collapse.

Most of the people back in the day would have run into their houses thinking they would be safe from a storm, but as soon as that flash flood hits, they all got trapped under their houses and probably drowned as their homes collapsed around them.

just something i saw on history channel.

Kinda like how people used to run under trees during a storm so not to get wet, but then ended up getting struck by lightening. same idea. Avoided one thing by got killed by another.

scionofPCFL

No, that's a normal flood. I'm speaking of one that would have covered 2 story barns if not destroy them altogether. A 2 story barn is a far cry from a mountain top.

And if it was a 5000 year flood (entirely plausible and probable), it could have been worse. Look at the pictures of the 100 year flood on the previous page, then think what that would look like if it were one of the once in 5000 year floods, not a once in 100 years floods. Now imagine how you would have told the story if you were simple ancient farmer. It probably would have sounded exactly like what Noah's event.

scionofPCFL

No, the weather channel.

seattledave

you really got to be thinking about the reality of it. so your barn is what, 30 feet tall? 50? since i imagine that it's above sea level, where are you going to put your flood, around the country of israel? the red sea? do you actually know how much water that it would take for that to happen (espeically in that area, where it is pretty mountainous), especially if it was so big that "many different cultures" wrote about such a flood?

i totally believe floods happen. even HUGE floods. But I think you're imagining a flood where you everything is underwater as far as the eye can see for these people. but that's just not plausible, unless you're talking a very small piece of land thats very flat right at sea level.

and just because a few cultures had this myth, does not lend any credibility to it. The civilizations that record this myth, all had traders that ventured all around the middle east telling their stories. and in a time of no radio, or tv, or mail service, oral stories is all they had, so that could have traveled the world as "truth". Fox News sends crummy info all around the globe via satellite nowadays. it's not much different.

HeathenBrewing

Hmmmm…..I thought it was quite odd the death penalty spawned 8 pages worth of discussion, so I decided to check it out…I see the ol' flood made it into this thread too….carry on!

scionofPCFL

Dave, do some research on floods in New Braunfels, TX. I've seen the inner tubes and other debris 20 to 30 feet in the air, stuck in trees, with my own eyes, and no, they were not thrown.

purpled_out_tC

Saves money too. It's cheaper than keeping them in prison for life, then new prison need to be built because of over flow. Personally I don't even know why they have a trial for murders. I say murders for those that kill b/c the wanted to, that doesnot include people that kill b/c of abuse, protection or those that kill the person that killed/raped their family member or friend. Rapist too. They give nothing back to society.

scionofPCFL

I think the concept of "Innocent till proven guilty" should completely answer that.

seattledave

http://ahps.srh.noaa.gov/images/ahps.../nbrt2_map.gif

look, the city is completely surrounded by rivers. the rivers over flow their man made barriers, obviously flooding is going to happen, right?

ok we've covered the little floods. where do you propose your big flood happened, and over what land did it stretch out over?

i thought we were talking about a flood so immense it stretches for hundreds to thousands of miles, so big it can atleast go from israel to iran like the bible mentioned, even if it was just a feet high. remember that multiple civilizations mention it happening to them.

sorry, i just don't see but about 1/10 of the water needed actually being plausible.

TheRealBen

Sounds about right.

purpled_out_tC

I should've said a "penalty trial", I know why they have a trial.

TheRealBen

You mean go into court with everyone knowing what the penalty will become?

seattledave

i think she means a sentencing hearing.

like every murder should get the gas chamber so what's the point?