ding dong the witch is dead
05-21-2007, 03:09 PM
#242
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Originally Posted by krustytheclown
Im not saying the bible does say that. That was kinda directed at nameless ak, who constantly references Chronicles of Narnia, instead of using the bible.
He agreed that when you die, youre sins are forgiven, but if you sin, you go to hell. The guys loco.
He agreed that when you die, youre sins are forgiven, but if you sin, you go to hell. The guys loco.
05-21-2007, 03:19 PM
#243
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“No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man.” (John 3:13)
Jesus said that NO one has ascended into heaven before he did. What about all the good people before Jesus? Like Abraham, Cain, Noah, Isaiah?
Jesus said that NO one has ascended into heaven before he did. What about all the good people before Jesus? Like Abraham, Cain, Noah, Isaiah?
05-21-2007, 03:24 PM
#244
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You mean like Enoch and Elijah? Those are the only two other examples of men who have ASCENDED into heaven.
When these prophets ascended into heaven they did not return to the earth. These men did not come back down from heaven after ascending in order to make known to men the heavenly mysteries or secrets they had seen and experienced. Rather, they ascended and remained in heaven, in God’s presence.
Here are the verses for your references, copy/pasted from bible.com:
"When Enoch had lived sixty-five years, he became the father of Methu'selah. Enoch walked with God after the birth of Methu'selah three hundred years, and had other sons and daughters. Thus all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. Enoch walked with God; AND HE WAS NOT, for God took him." Genesis 5:21-24
"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God." Hebrews 11:5
"Now when the LORD was about to take Eli'jah up to heaven by a whirlwind, Eli'jah and Eli'sha were on their way from Gilgal… And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Eli'jah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Eli'sha saw it and he cried, ‘My father, my father! the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!’ And he saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and rent them in two pieces." 2 Kings 2:1, 11-12
When these prophets ascended into heaven they did not return to the earth. These men did not come back down from heaven after ascending in order to make known to men the heavenly mysteries or secrets they had seen and experienced. Rather, they ascended and remained in heaven, in God’s presence.
Here are the verses for your references, copy/pasted from bible.com:
"When Enoch had lived sixty-five years, he became the father of Methu'selah. Enoch walked with God after the birth of Methu'selah three hundred years, and had other sons and daughters. Thus all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. Enoch walked with God; AND HE WAS NOT, for God took him." Genesis 5:21-24
"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God." Hebrews 11:5
"Now when the LORD was about to take Eli'jah up to heaven by a whirlwind, Eli'jah and Eli'sha were on their way from Gilgal… And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Eli'jah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Eli'sha saw it and he cried, ‘My father, my father! the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!’ And he saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and rent them in two pieces." 2 Kings 2:1, 11-12
05-21-2007, 05:19 PM
#246
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So what about Cain, Isaiah, Noah, and the countless other good people that helped write the bible? If they didn't go to heaven, what happened to them?
King James Bible
Note, it dosen't use the word cross
Acts 5:30
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Gal. 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
If the meek will inherit the earth, why would we go to heaven?
King James Bible
Note, it dosen't use the word cross
Acts 5:30
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Gal. 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
If the meek will inherit the earth, why would we go to heaven?
05-21-2007, 05:33 PM
#247
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“Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:2
Revelation 21:4
“will wipe out every tear from [people’s] eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.”
Revelation 21:4
“will wipe out every tear from [people’s] eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.”
05-21-2007, 07:02 PM
#249
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To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.” - Genesis 3:16
I just figured while everyone was posting from genesis I would post my favorite.
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.” - Genesis 3:16
I just figured while everyone was posting from genesis I would post my favorite.
05-21-2007, 10:40 PM
#251
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Enoch was a prophet of God. He stood up for God in a wicked world. So he had a lot of enemies. Instead of letting his enemies kill him, God "transferred so as not to see death" (Genesis 5:24, Hebrews 11:5). God put him to sleep in death, so his enemies would not hurt him. I'm sure his name is in Jehovah's "Book of life" mentioned in Revelation 3:5.
Elijah was also a prophet of Jehovah, and he did some awesome miracles (with the power of God) such as when he challenged the Baal Worshipers, and when he Controlled the Weather. When Elisha saw Elijah in the windstorm, he (Elijah) did not go to heaven. He was still alive, but was transfered to a different prophetic assignment. Read 2nd Chronicles 21:12-15 (Elijah wrote a letter to Elisha)
You should of already know that if Jesus said at John 3:13:
Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man. (Notice it says NO man, not besides Elijah and Enoch)
As for Lazarus, who was a close friend of Jesus (you can tell, because when Jesus found out Lazarus died, he broke down into tears), he did not go to Heaven either.
John 11:23-27
23 Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; 26 and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” 27 She said to him: “Yes, Lord; I have believed that you are the Christ the Son of God, the One coming into the world.”
Jesus went to the tomb of Lazarus (who by now, was dead for 4 days), and said “Laz′a·rus, come on out (John 11:43), and Lazarus was brought back to life, and came out of the tomb.
Lazarus was a popular name in Jesus day, as is John or Paul. The parable was just that, a parable NOT history.
So I ask again, As we read in John 3:13,
Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.
If NO man has ascended into Heaven before the Son of Man (Jesus), what happened to the faithful ones before Christ? God refered to Abraham as "his friend" in James 2:21-23, if he was Gods friend, but "no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man", what happened to him?
On a Side note, the hebrew word "she’ohl" and the greek word "haides" are translated in Hell in the King James Bible. That is inconsistent though, she’ohl′ is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.” In the Douay Version she’ohl′ is rendered “hell” 64 times, “pit” once, and “death” once.
Qoute in 3....2....1....
In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar.
When you die, you die. You die because we are imperfect, because of Adamic Sin. "The wages sin pays is death", not burning in Hell forever.
Whew!
Elijah was also a prophet of Jehovah, and he did some awesome miracles (with the power of God) such as when he challenged the Baal Worshipers, and when he Controlled the Weather. When Elisha saw Elijah in the windstorm, he (Elijah) did not go to heaven. He was still alive, but was transfered to a different prophetic assignment. Read 2nd Chronicles 21:12-15 (Elijah wrote a letter to Elisha)
You should of already know that if Jesus said at John 3:13:
Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man. (Notice it says NO man, not besides Elijah and Enoch)
As for Lazarus, who was a close friend of Jesus (you can tell, because when Jesus found out Lazarus died, he broke down into tears), he did not go to Heaven either.
John 11:23-27
23 Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; 26 and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” 27 She said to him: “Yes, Lord; I have believed that you are the Christ the Son of God, the One coming into the world.”
Jesus went to the tomb of Lazarus (who by now, was dead for 4 days), and said “Laz′a·rus, come on out (John 11:43), and Lazarus was brought back to life, and came out of the tomb.
Lazarus was a popular name in Jesus day, as is John or Paul. The parable was just that, a parable NOT history.
Teachers and students of comparative religion have in some cases suggested that in giving this illustration, Jesus Christ drew upon the ancient rabbinic concept and teaching regarding the underworld. Josephus furnishes the following information regarding the then-current view of the Pharisees in this regard: “They believe that souls have power to survive death and that there are rewards and punishments under the earth for those who have led lives of virtue or vice: eternal imprisonment is the lot of evil souls, while the good souls receive an easy passage to a new life.” (Jewish Antiquities, XVIII, 14 [i, 3]) However, Jesus flatly rejected false teachings, including those of the Pharisees. (Mt 23) Hence, it would have been inconsistent for him to frame his illustration of the rich man and Lazarus according to the outlines of the false rabbinic concept of the underworld. Consequently, it must be concluded that Jesus had in mind the fulfillment of the illustration and framed its details and movement in harmony with the facts of the fulfillment rather than according to any unscriptural teaching.
The context and the wording of the story show clearly that it is a parable and not an actual historical account. Poverty is not being extolled, nor are riches being condemned. Rather, conduct, final rewards, and a reversal in the spiritual status, or condition, of those represented by Lazarus and by the rich man are evidently indicated. The fact that the rich man’s brothers rejected Moses and the prophets also shows that the illustration had a deeper meaning and purpose than that of contrasting poverty and the possession of riches.
The context and the wording of the story show clearly that it is a parable and not an actual historical account. Poverty is not being extolled, nor are riches being condemned. Rather, conduct, final rewards, and a reversal in the spiritual status, or condition, of those represented by Lazarus and by the rich man are evidently indicated. The fact that the rich man’s brothers rejected Moses and the prophets also shows that the illustration had a deeper meaning and purpose than that of contrasting poverty and the possession of riches.
Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.
If NO man has ascended into Heaven before the Son of Man (Jesus), what happened to the faithful ones before Christ? God refered to Abraham as "his friend" in James 2:21-23, if he was Gods friend, but "no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man", what happened to him?
On a Side note, the hebrew word "she’ohl" and the greek word "haides" are translated in Hell in the King James Bible. That is inconsistent though, she’ohl′ is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.” In the Douay Version she’ohl′ is rendered “hell” 64 times, “pit” once, and “death” once.
Qoute in 3....2....1....
Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 2 says concerning “Hell”: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.
says concerning “Hell”: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.
The Encyclopedia Americana (1956, Vol. XIV, p. 81) said: “Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.”
Whew!
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