ding dong the witch is dead
05-16-2007, 07:35 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by seattledave
In 1993, Graham said before a record-breaking crowd in Columbus, Ohio "Is AIDS a judgment of God? I could not say for sure, but I think so." After seeing letters criticizing that comment, Graham later said "I remember saying it, and I immediately regretted it and almost went back and clarified the statement," and "To say God has judged people with AIDS would be very wrong and very cruel."
it's like saying one thing, then wink-wink, i didn't mean it.
I do this all the time myself, saying things like a god doesn't exist, but after receiving complaints I say "i didn't mean it, that's horrible".
it's like saying one thing, then wink-wink, i didn't mean it.
I do this all the time myself, saying things like a god doesn't exist, but after receiving complaints I say "i didn't mean it, that's horrible".
I can understand how someone that refuses to believe in God wants nothing more than for a follower of God to fail. Here is a newsflash...we all will.
05-16-2007, 07:37 PM
#43
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if i had left it off, sure people wouldn't be able pick it out and critize me or my statement. Really it doesn't matter, as that seems to have gotten the conversation going, huh? (btw, i put the word "silly" instead of "f-ed up")
Bait? Meet Fish.
Bait? Meet Fish.
05-16-2007, 07:58 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by oldmanatee
Originally Posted by seattledave
In 1993, Graham said before a record-breaking crowd in Columbus, Ohio "Is AIDS a judgment of God? I could not say for sure, but I think so." After seeing letters criticizing that comment, Graham later said "I remember saying it, and I immediately regretted it and almost went back and clarified the statement," and "To say God has judged people with AIDS would be very wrong and very cruel."
it's like saying one thing, then wink-wink, i didn't mean it.
I do this all the time myself, saying things like a god doesn't exist, but after receiving complaints I say "i didn't mean it, that's horrible".
it's like saying one thing, then wink-wink, i didn't mean it.
I do this all the time myself, saying things like a god doesn't exist, but after receiving complaints I say "i didn't mean it, that's horrible".
I can understand how someone that refuses to believe in God wants nothing more than for a follower of God to fail. Here is a newsflash...we all will.
i don't want anyone to fail. I just want people to stop preaching made up things, preying upon children and the weak and giving them false hopes in exchange for 10% of their income.
But christians supposedly hold themselves up to a higher standard than the rest of the world(as viewed by them). So were is it?
It seems as though there is 1 christian in the entire world. "Me" as answered by every christian. Everyone else who doesn't do and believe just as that one guy does isn't. Was hitler a christian? He said he was, and we don't know what jesus/god thinks, so then as far as every christian is concerned, he should be. Unless you start to judge him, a very unchristian thing to do, right?(again, these are YOUR rules, not mine)
05-16-2007, 07:59 PM
#45
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I personally believe that religion as a whole has done nothing more than try to hold humanity back.
That aside, i don't agree with oldmanatee's political/religious views but he's been nothing more than kind to me and everyone i've ever seen him interact with. Even though I sometimes question why people are willing to blindly follow something I do respect his right to do so. Just as he respects our right to not follow. He is actually one of the good guys so please be kind to him.
That aside, i don't agree with oldmanatee's political/religious views but he's been nothing more than kind to me and everyone i've ever seen him interact with. Even though I sometimes question why people are willing to blindly follow something I do respect his right to do so. Just as he respects our right to not follow. He is actually one of the good guys so please be kind to him.
05-16-2007, 08:04 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by seattledave
What it seems is most christians here and there, don't support their leaders once they're involved in scandal. totally understandable. You probably would have had no problem saying you support ted haggard a year ago, right? But now, "he's not a real christian", right?
like the ten's of millions of catholics that are banding their money together to silence children that have been molested by priests and church leaders. When you say it like that, no one says they're doing it, but they're still passing out collection plates at these churches and obviously some of that money is being used to settle with victims out of court, right?
If it's against your belief to judge others, and say their not a christian, when they say they are, then why are you doing it?
like the ten's of millions of catholics that are banding their money together to silence children that have been molested by priests and church leaders. When you say it like that, no one says they're doing it, but they're still passing out collection plates at these churches and obviously some of that money is being used to settle with victims out of court, right?
If it's against your belief to judge others, and say their not a christian, when they say they are, then why are you doing it?
05-16-2007, 08:21 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by seattledave
Originally Posted by oldmanatee
Originally Posted by seattledave
In 1993, Graham said before a record-breaking crowd in Columbus, Ohio "Is AIDS a judgment of God? I could not say for sure, but I think so." After seeing letters criticizing that comment, Graham later said "I remember saying it, and I immediately regretted it and almost went back and clarified the statement," and "To say God has judged people with AIDS would be very wrong and very cruel."
it's like saying one thing, then wink-wink, i didn't mean it.
I do this all the time myself, saying things like a god doesn't exist, but after receiving complaints I say "i didn't mean it, that's horrible".
it's like saying one thing, then wink-wink, i didn't mean it.
I do this all the time myself, saying things like a god doesn't exist, but after receiving complaints I say "i didn't mean it, that's horrible".
I can understand how someone that refuses to believe in God wants nothing more than for a follower of God to fail. Here is a newsflash...we all will.
i don't want anyone to fail. I just want people to stop preaching made up things, preying upon children and the weak and giving them false hopes in exchange for 10% of their income.
But christians supposedly hold themselves up to a higher standard than the rest of the world(as viewed by them). So were is it?
It seems as though there is 1 christian in the entire world. "Me" as answered by every christian. Everyone else who doesn't do and believe just as that one guy does isn't. Was hitler a christian? He said he was, and we don't know what jesus/god thinks, so then as far as every christian is concerned, he should be. Unless you start to judge him, a very unchristian thing to do, right?(again, these are YOUR rules, not mine)
We see Jesus just a few verse later in Matthew 7:6 calling people “Pigs" and “dogs" and in verse 15 “wolves in sheep’s clothing." In verse 16 He tells us how to recognize the false prophets, “you will recognize them by their fruits." Jesus would not be telling us how to recognize false prophets if he did not expect us to judge them as being true prophets or false prophets.
Therefore, the answer to your question is that Christians are to judge others. If judging others is unchristian as some charge, we would be unable to have the various levels of government, we would be unable to be a good parent, we would certainly make a poor employer, none of us would be able to sit on a jury and the list goes on.
Jesus does condemn a critical and judgmental spirit, one with a sense of moral superiority. He commanded us to examine ourselves first for the problems that we so easily see in others (you ever heard the te. It is when we examine ourselves that we can better see the problem and get help for our own problem first. Christians are not only commanded to judge but to judge righteously and not just by appearance. John 7:24, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."
If somebody claims to be a Christian, then goes out and kills 12 million jews...i'd have to say that NO they are not a Christian, because their actions do not show the love of God.....so regarding what God/Jesus think of hitler, they think he was a sinner who was unforgiven, and now he's in hell for it.
If a person is doing wrong and I tell them they are doing wrong I am not judging that person but I am judging that persons behavior. God will judge the intent or motivation of man
I hope that clears things up a bit and sorry its' so long, i just re-read it, took just over a minute, so not TOO bad of a read. :-)
05-16-2007, 08:28 PM
#48
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ikevin,
Don't be fooled by oldmanatee. While he may seem to have a sweet and kind demeanor you don't want to get caught in his path when he is on a rampage. It's kill or be killed with him.
Isn't that right oldmanatee?
Don't be fooled by oldmanatee. While he may seem to have a sweet and kind demeanor you don't want to get caught in his path when he is on a rampage. It's kill or be killed with him.
Isn't that right oldmanatee?
05-16-2007, 08:32 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by xdorkx
What next, are you going to say we all share the same views of www.godhates___s.com and the southborough baptist church? Just because somebody is in a place of leadership does NOT mean he speaks for the majority...i'm a christian, i dont know ANYBODY who LIKED Jerry Falwell.....
But we both know nobody likes to admit believing in ultra conservative, separatist views in mixed company.
Like how many christian people in america would say they wouldn't vote for a black president?
few if any, right?
But in the voting booth, how many really?
05-16-2007, 08:36 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by seattledave
Originally Posted by xdorkx
What next, are you going to say we all share the same views of www.godhates___s.com and the southborough baptist church? Just because somebody is in a place of leadership does NOT mean he speaks for the majority...i'm a christian, i dont know ANYBODY who LIKED Jerry Falwell.....
But we both know nobody likes to admit believing in ultra conservative, separatist views in mixed company.
Like how many christian people in america would say they wouldn't vote for a black president?
few if any, right?
But in the voting booth, how many really?
05-16-2007, 08:52 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by xdorkx
Originally Posted by seattledave
Originally Posted by oldmanatee
Originally Posted by seattledave
In 1993, Graham said before a record-breaking crowd in Columbus, Ohio "Is AIDS a judgment of God? I could not say for sure, but I think so." After seeing letters criticizing that comment, Graham later said "I remember saying it, and I immediately regretted it and almost went back and clarified the statement," and "To say God has judged people with AIDS would be very wrong and very cruel."
it's like saying one thing, then wink-wink, i didn't mean it.
I do this all the time myself, saying things like a god doesn't exist, but after receiving complaints I say "i didn't mean it, that's horrible".
it's like saying one thing, then wink-wink, i didn't mean it.
I do this all the time myself, saying things like a god doesn't exist, but after receiving complaints I say "i didn't mean it, that's horrible".
I can understand how someone that refuses to believe in God wants nothing more than for a follower of God to fail. Here is a newsflash...we all will.
i don't want anyone to fail. I just want people to stop preaching made up things, preying upon children and the weak and giving them false hopes in exchange for 10% of their income.
But christians supposedly hold themselves up to a higher standard than the rest of the world(as viewed by them). So were is it?
It seems as though there is 1 christian in the entire world. "Me" as answered by every christian. Everyone else who doesn't do and believe just as that one guy does isn't. Was hitler a christian? He said he was, and we don't know what jesus/god thinks, so then as far as every christian is concerned, he should be. Unless you start to judge him, a very unchristian thing to do, right?(again, these are YOUR rules, not mine)
We see Jesus just a few verse later in Matthew 7:6 calling people “Pigs" and “dogs" and in verse 15 “wolves in sheep’s clothing." In verse 16 He tells us how to recognize the false prophets, “you will recognize them by their fruits." Jesus would not be telling us how to recognize false prophets if he did not expect us to judge them as being true prophets or false prophets.
Therefore, the answer to your question is that Christians are to judge others. If judging others is unchristian as some charge, we would be unable to have the various levels of government, we would be unable to be a good parent, we would certainly make a poor employer, none of us would be able to sit on a jury and the list goes on.
Jesus does condemn a critical and judgmental spirit, one with a sense of moral superiority. He commanded us to examine ourselves first for the problems that we so easily see in others (you ever heard the te. It is when we examine ourselves that we can better see the problem and get help for our own problem first. Christians are not only commanded to judge but to judge righteously and not just by appearance. John 7:24, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."
If somebody claims to be a Christian, then goes out and kills 12 million jews...i'd have to say that NO they are not a Christian, because their actions do not show the love of God.....so regarding what God/Jesus think of hitler, they think he was a sinner who was unforgiven, and now he's in hell for it.
If a person is doing wrong and I tell them they are doing wrong I am not judging that person but I am judging that persons behavior. God will judge the intent or motivation of man
I hope that clears things up a bit and sorry its' so long, i just re-read it, took just over a minute, so not TOO bad of a read. :-)
But who's a false prophet in the eyes of a christian?
Some christian I talk to say god would never hate gays, and would accept them into heaven, if they accept jesus and live their life right.
Other(most) christians I talk to say gays are always sinning, and being indenial of your sin, and not repenting for buttsex keeps gays out of christianity and they are going to hell.
Now say there is a preacher who advocates for ___ sex and ___ marriage and says they are going to heaven if they accept jesus as their saviour. Is he a false prophet according to you?
Now say there is a preacher who believes being ___ is a sin, and that god put aids on this planet to help wipe out gays. Is he a false prophet according to you?
05-16-2007, 08:53 PM
#53
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LOL, I voted for him his FIRST term, I didnt vote for him when he re-ran....(i didnt vote, lol, had to work that day and could not get off, otherwise i would have, haha, so bring on the "i told you so") :-P
05-16-2007, 09:37 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by citizen01
ikevin,
Don't be fooled by oldmanatee. While he may seem to have a sweet and kind demeanor you don't want to get caught in his path when he is on a rampage. It's kill or be killed with him. Isn't that right oldmanatee?
Don't be fooled by oldmanatee. While he may seem to have a sweet and kind demeanor you don't want to get caught in his path when he is on a rampage. It's kill or be killed with him.
Isn't that right oldmanatee?Shhhh, don't run him off, I'm trying to lure him into my cult......
05-16-2007, 10:03 PM
#57
It really makes no sense when people toss the "judgement" scripture around. It's useless...
The Bible specifically points out homosexuality as a sin. What are you judging if the Bible points that out? Are you judging someone by saying if they kill someone that's a sin?
The Bible specifically points out homosexuality as a sin. What are you judging if the Bible points that out? Are you judging someone by saying if they kill someone that's a sin?
05-17-2007, 12:19 AM
#58
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The bible is clear on what is a sin.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
Jude 7: “Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they . . . [had] gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” (The name Sodom has become the basis for the word “sodomy,” which usually designates a homosexual practice.
That is why I believe that homosexuality is a sin. Some say you are born ___, which I don't know if Scientists have proven that or not... Even if it is, you have a choice on how to live your life. There were people in Jesus day that use to practice homosexuality, but they prayed to God, and with his Strength, they were able to turn their life around.
Flame On!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
Jude 7: “Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they . . . [had] gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” (The name Sodom has become the basis for the word “sodomy,” which usually designates a homosexual practice.
That is why I believe that homosexuality is a sin. Some say you are born ___, which I don't know if Scientists have proven that or not... Even if it is, you have a choice on how to live your life. There were people in Jesus day that use to practice homosexuality, but they prayed to God, and with his Strength, they were able to turn their life around.
Flame On!!
05-17-2007, 12:41 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by seattledave
the closest I got, was as soon as a republican was elected office, I said, "great now we're going to war".
republicans seem to like to do that.
republicans seem to like to do that.
Anyhoo, liberals are all about free speech until it's something they find offensive - which is ironic as hell.
Brainwashing? Just turn on network/cable "news" and look no further.
To make fun of a guy that just passed is pathetic - let's see how many right-wingers do that when Carter bites the dust.
My guess, not many - at least until a proper time of mourning has passed.
As usual Dave, a class act.
And no, I didn't like him, but in America, you do have the right to free speech - with noted limitations.
Does Rosie ____ you off too, Dave?
Probably not.
05-17-2007, 06:17 AM
#60
