View Poll Results: what do you think about the illegal immigration problem?
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Immigration Reform
03-29-2006, 11:31 PM
#41
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I agree that some sort of immigration law should be enforced but c'mon guys... give me a break... You think ordinary Americans will get paid $5-$10 an hour harvesting crops,? cleaning hotel rooms? doing a busboy? You want your teenaged sons and daughters to do that? 
You guys are overblowing this story. I think America should invest more in education, information technology and things that require high levels of skillsets to compete globally against other countries who are catching up to the US. It used to be that America was the world leader in technology and innovation (it still is... but for how long?) but the distance between the US and the rest of the world is diminishing. We cannot afford to be nationalistic and protective on menial labor. I don't want to cry over $5-$10 going over to illegal immigrants. However, when an engineering or programming job that pays $50 an hour here goes over to India or China... now that's scary....
You guys are overblowing this story. I think America should invest more in education, information technology and things that require high levels of skillsets to compete globally against other countries who are catching up to the US. It used to be that America was the world leader in technology and innovation (it still is... but for how long?) but the distance between the US and the rest of the world is diminishing. We cannot afford to be nationalistic and protective on menial labor. I don't want to cry over $5-$10 going over to illegal immigrants. However, when an engineering or programming job that pays $50 an hour here goes over to India or China... now that's scary....
03-30-2006, 01:01 AM
#42
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PERHAPS THIS WILL CHANGE READERS' MINDS, PLEASE READ
Is Mexico reconquering
U.S. southwest?
Illegal immigration fueling aims of Hispanic radicals
-------------------------------------------------------------------
By Art Moore
© WorldNetDaily.com
A radical Hispanic movement's dream to retake the southwestern United States is becoming a reality with the aid of Mexican and U.S. policies, according to some immigration watchers.
A massive influx of illegal immigrants is "importing poverty" and growing an ethnic community with greater loyalty to Mexico than the U.S., maintains Glenn Spencer, president of a non profit american citizens group
"Unless this is shut down within two years, I believe that it will be irreversible, and that it will most certainly lead to a breakup of the United States," Spencer told WorldNetDaily. "I don't think there is any doubt about it."
A breakaway of U.S. states is a distinct possibility, according to prominent Chicano activist and University of California at Riverside professor Armando Navarro. In an interview with WorldNetDaily, Navarro would not answer directly whether he shared separatist aspirations, but said that if demographic and social trends continue, secession is inevitable.
"If in 50 years most of our people are subordinated, powerless, exploited and impoverished, then I will say to you that there are all kinds of possibilities for movements to develop like the ones that we've witnessed in the last few years all over the world, from Yugoslavia to Chechnya," Navarro said.
"A secessionist movement is not something that you can put away and say it is never going to happen in the United States," he continued. "Time and history change."
In a 1995 speech to Chicano activists, Navarro said demographic trends are leading to "a transfer of power" to the ethnic Mexican community in the Southwest. He notes that most studies show that within the next 20 to 30 years Latinos will comprise more than 50 percent of the population of California. This fact, and other cultural and social developments, are opening the door for "self-determination" and even "the idea of an Aztlan," he said in his speech.
Aztlan, the mythical birthplace of the Aztecs, is regarded in Chicano folklore as an area that includes California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and parts of Colorado and Texas. Spencer believes the aim is to create a sovereign state, "Republica del Norte," the Republic of the North, that would combine the American Southwest with the northern Mexican states and eventually merge with Mexico.
"I see that as the overarching goal of the Mexican government and many Mexicans who want self-determination," Spencer said.
'America's Palestinians'
On its website, a group called "La Voz de Aztlan," the Voice of Aztlan, identifies Mexicans in the U.S. as "America's Palestinians." Many Mexicans see themselves as part of a transnational ethnic group known as "La Raza," the race. A May editorial on the website, with a dateline of Los Angeles, Alta California, declares that "both La Raza and the Palestinians have been displaced by invaders that have utilized military means to conquer and occupy our territories."
But the threat of secession is not merely from groups that might be considered on the fringe, Spencer insists, noting the declarations of Mexican leaders, up to the highest office. Former Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo said in a 1997 speech in Chicago to the "National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy group, that he "proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important – a very important – part of this."
Zedillo said that because of this fact his government proposed a constitutional amendment that allows Mexican citizens to hold dual citizenship. Spencer believes that the objective is to enable Mexicans in the United States to vote in the interest of Mexico.
Ultimately, many Mexicans hope for a "reconquista," a reconquest of territory lost when Mexico signed the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo at the end of the Mexican-American War.
"One could argue that while Mexico lost the war in 1848, it will probably win it in the 21st century, in terms of the numbers," Navarro told WorldNetDaily. "But that is not a reality based on what Mexico does, it's based on what this country does."
Spencer argues that misguided U.S. policies and lax enforcement have allowed a steady stream of 1 million illegal immigrants a year to enter the country. Demographers agree that instead of integrating into a "melting pot," new Hispanic immigrants, both legal and illegal, are building a distinct, politically active community.
The problem is not that they have a voice, Spencer says, but that they increasingly are acting according to the interests of Mexico.
Spencer believes that the Mexican government played an important role in the legal quashing of a 1995 California voter initiative, Proposition 187, that limited taxpayer funds to services for citizens only. After a visit with California Gov. Gray Davis in 1999, former Mexican President Zedillo told reporters that he had a commitment from Davis to ensure that "the catastrophic effects which were foreseen with Proposition 187 several years ago will not come to pass."
Among other signs of Mexican influence on U.S. affairs, Spencer notes that less than two years ago, West Los Angeles businessman Eddie Varon Levy became the first person living abroad to join the Mexican Congress. Varon Levy said one of his goals as a member of the Chamber of Deputies was to establish a special attorney's office to defend immigrants' rights.
Border erasure
The U.S. has tripled its border patrol budget over the past five years, but the flow of immigrants has barely changed. At the same time, Mexican President Vicente Fox has pressed for an eventual erasure of the southern border and encouraged Mexicans who seek work in the U.S.
At a speech one year ago at a border post in Nogales, just south of the Arizona border, Fox said: "We want to salute these heroes, these kids leaving their homes, their communities, leaving with tears in their eyes, saying goodbye to their families, to set out on a difficult, sometimes painful search for a job, an opportunity they can't find at home, their community or their own country."
Under the Fox regime, Mexico has an Office for Mexicans Abroad that provides survival kits for Mexicans who seek to enter the U.S. illegally.
Some immigration watchdogs in the U.S. believe, however, that all this does not add up to a desire by the Mexican government to retake the Southwest. Ira Mehlman, spokesman for the Los Angeles office of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, believes statements by Zedillo and Fox indicate "they are looking for some way to gain leverage with regard to American policy."
"They want to create one market where they will be able to send workers here without any restrictions, because it's in their interest to do so," Mehlman said.
The incentive to cross the U.S. border is high. The average illegal worker can make about $60 a day in the U.S. compared to about $5 a day in Mexico
Is Mexico reconquering
U.S. southwest?
Illegal immigration fueling aims of Hispanic radicals
-------------------------------------------------------------------
By Art Moore
© WorldNetDaily.com
A radical Hispanic movement's dream to retake the southwestern United States is becoming a reality with the aid of Mexican and U.S. policies, according to some immigration watchers.
A massive influx of illegal immigrants is "importing poverty" and growing an ethnic community with greater loyalty to Mexico than the U.S., maintains Glenn Spencer, president of a non profit american citizens group
"Unless this is shut down within two years, I believe that it will be irreversible, and that it will most certainly lead to a breakup of the United States," Spencer told WorldNetDaily. "I don't think there is any doubt about it."
A breakaway of U.S. states is a distinct possibility, according to prominent Chicano activist and University of California at Riverside professor Armando Navarro. In an interview with WorldNetDaily, Navarro would not answer directly whether he shared separatist aspirations, but said that if demographic and social trends continue, secession is inevitable.
"If in 50 years most of our people are subordinated, powerless, exploited and impoverished, then I will say to you that there are all kinds of possibilities for movements to develop like the ones that we've witnessed in the last few years all over the world, from Yugoslavia to Chechnya," Navarro said.
"A secessionist movement is not something that you can put away and say it is never going to happen in the United States," he continued. "Time and history change."
In a 1995 speech to Chicano activists, Navarro said demographic trends are leading to "a transfer of power" to the ethnic Mexican community in the Southwest. He notes that most studies show that within the next 20 to 30 years Latinos will comprise more than 50 percent of the population of California. This fact, and other cultural and social developments, are opening the door for "self-determination" and even "the idea of an Aztlan," he said in his speech.
Aztlan, the mythical birthplace of the Aztecs, is regarded in Chicano folklore as an area that includes California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and parts of Colorado and Texas. Spencer believes the aim is to create a sovereign state, "Republica del Norte," the Republic of the North, that would combine the American Southwest with the northern Mexican states and eventually merge with Mexico.
"I see that as the overarching goal of the Mexican government and many Mexicans who want self-determination," Spencer said.
'America's Palestinians'
On its website, a group called "La Voz de Aztlan," the Voice of Aztlan, identifies Mexicans in the U.S. as "America's Palestinians." Many Mexicans see themselves as part of a transnational ethnic group known as "La Raza," the race. A May editorial on the website, with a dateline of Los Angeles, Alta California, declares that "both La Raza and the Palestinians have been displaced by invaders that have utilized military means to conquer and occupy our territories."
But the threat of secession is not merely from groups that might be considered on the fringe, Spencer insists, noting the declarations of Mexican leaders, up to the highest office. Former Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo said in a 1997 speech in Chicago to the "National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy group, that he "proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important – a very important – part of this."
Zedillo said that because of this fact his government proposed a constitutional amendment that allows Mexican citizens to hold dual citizenship. Spencer believes that the objective is to enable Mexicans in the United States to vote in the interest of Mexico.
Ultimately, many Mexicans hope for a "reconquista," a reconquest of territory lost when Mexico signed the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo at the end of the Mexican-American War.
"One could argue that while Mexico lost the war in 1848, it will probably win it in the 21st century, in terms of the numbers," Navarro told WorldNetDaily. "But that is not a reality based on what Mexico does, it's based on what this country does."
Spencer argues that misguided U.S. policies and lax enforcement have allowed a steady stream of 1 million illegal immigrants a year to enter the country. Demographers agree that instead of integrating into a "melting pot," new Hispanic immigrants, both legal and illegal, are building a distinct, politically active community.
The problem is not that they have a voice, Spencer says, but that they increasingly are acting according to the interests of Mexico.
Spencer believes that the Mexican government played an important role in the legal quashing of a 1995 California voter initiative, Proposition 187, that limited taxpayer funds to services for citizens only. After a visit with California Gov. Gray Davis in 1999, former Mexican President Zedillo told reporters that he had a commitment from Davis to ensure that "the catastrophic effects which were foreseen with Proposition 187 several years ago will not come to pass."
Among other signs of Mexican influence on U.S. affairs, Spencer notes that less than two years ago, West Los Angeles businessman Eddie Varon Levy became the first person living abroad to join the Mexican Congress. Varon Levy said one of his goals as a member of the Chamber of Deputies was to establish a special attorney's office to defend immigrants' rights.
Border erasure
The U.S. has tripled its border patrol budget over the past five years, but the flow of immigrants has barely changed. At the same time, Mexican President Vicente Fox has pressed for an eventual erasure of the southern border and encouraged Mexicans who seek work in the U.S.
At a speech one year ago at a border post in Nogales, just south of the Arizona border, Fox said: "We want to salute these heroes, these kids leaving their homes, their communities, leaving with tears in their eyes, saying goodbye to their families, to set out on a difficult, sometimes painful search for a job, an opportunity they can't find at home, their community or their own country."
Under the Fox regime, Mexico has an Office for Mexicans Abroad that provides survival kits for Mexicans who seek to enter the U.S. illegally.
Some immigration watchdogs in the U.S. believe, however, that all this does not add up to a desire by the Mexican government to retake the Southwest. Ira Mehlman, spokesman for the Los Angeles office of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, believes statements by Zedillo and Fox indicate "they are looking for some way to gain leverage with regard to American policy."
"They want to create one market where they will be able to send workers here without any restrictions, because it's in their interest to do so," Mehlman said.
The incentive to cross the U.S. border is high. The average illegal worker can make about $60 a day in the U.S. compared to about $5 a day in Mexico
03-30-2006, 01:28 AM
#43
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Why couldn't those jobs go to LEGAL immigrants? And since when are our teenage kids "too good" to do some actual labor? I did plenty when I was young and learned the value of some hard work. I think it would be great for some of the spoiled, unproductive teens we have these days. And with an abundance of menial labor jobs available we could thin out our welfare rolls at the same time. Let these Mexicans put some of that effort into adressing their countrys issues instead of becoming our countrys issue. Mexico has resources and a workforce available, why can't they reform their slimebag ridden government and become productive in their own country? What other country in the world would allow illegal immigration? Most would shoot you down as you breached their border. How about a more pragmatic approach to US-Mexico relations and enforcing OUR LAWS. If some of our prices went up as a result, where do you think that money would go? Pedro wouldn't be sending it home to Mexico, it would be staying in the US economy. The whole issue is such a non-issue that the people protesting don't even know what they're protesting for. Do the illegals here wish that immigration was unchecked? There would be 10 more of them competing for the menial job they have now. Do they think our laws should go unenforced? How about murder? The pure ignorance of these people doesn't lend itself well to public displays or news interviews. I am almost embarrassed for them. But not embarrassed enough to forfeit a good portion of my tax dollar to their illegal robbery of our countrys services and healthcare. The few cents I save on a head of lettuce pales in comparison to my enormous hospital bills that go to cover ILLEGAL Marias new twins. 
03-30-2006, 01:33 AM
#44
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most legal immigrants with exception to our scion driving freind above, already have family here who are somewhat established, so when they do arrive they start hleping out with the family business or they go to school, not immedially set up shop at the welfare office.
it too irks me to see all the mexican flags at the protests, they should be waving flags for the country they want to be accepted in. I think honestly the bill will pass, it already passed one house, and needs approval in the senate which is generally more conservative. And i know the politicians are tired of thier states getting financially raped every year.
it too irks me to see all the mexican flags at the protests, they should be waving flags for the country they want to be accepted in. I think honestly the bill will pass, it already passed one house, and needs approval in the senate which is generally more conservative. And i know the politicians are tired of thier states getting financially raped every year.
03-30-2006, 03:27 AM
#45
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Amen Scott...I couldn't have said it better myself.
This is only speaking for myself, but if I was going through a hard time in my life, you best believe I'd be the first one to sign up to pick roses or harvest onions, or clean a hotel room or clean tables providing they pay minimum wage. It's all honest work...I'd rather have a minimum wage job than have no job at all. the problem is, is the work isn't being done by honest people. And that's not right. When I first moved to Phoenix 2 1/2 years ago, I had just graduated from college, I was just married, and was having a hell of a time finding a job, so I broke down one afternoon and went and applied at Burger King. I filled out the application sat down with the manager and he asked me if I was bilingual I replyed "No" then proceeded to tell me I wasn't qualified to work at Burger King because I wasn't bilingual. Well I'm sorry, last time I checked this is the UNITED STATES, and the last time I checked, here in the United States of America, we speak ENGLISH!
Like I said, I could go on all day, but I won't...it looks like the feeling is pretty much unanimous!
This is only speaking for myself, but if I was going through a hard time in my life, you best believe I'd be the first one to sign up to pick roses or harvest onions, or clean a hotel room or clean tables providing they pay minimum wage. It's all honest work...I'd rather have a minimum wage job than have no job at all. the problem is, is the work isn't being done by honest people. And that's not right. When I first moved to Phoenix 2 1/2 years ago, I had just graduated from college, I was just married, and was having a hell of a time finding a job, so I broke down one afternoon and went and applied at Burger King. I filled out the application sat down with the manager and he asked me if I was bilingual I replyed "No" then proceeded to tell me I wasn't qualified to work at Burger King because I wasn't bilingual. Well I'm sorry, last time I checked this is the UNITED STATES, and the last time I checked, here in the United States of America, we speak ENGLISH!
Like I said, I could go on all day, but I won't...it looks like the feeling is pretty much unanimous!
03-30-2006, 03:41 AM
#46
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Here is a site for those that oppose illegal immigration
http://www.alipac.us
and take a survey at:
http://www.secureamericasborders.com/
http://www.alipac.us
and take a survey at:
http://www.secureamericasborders.com/
03-30-2006, 03:56 AM
#47
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You guys are missing my point. If you get paid the minimum wage, you are still below poverty line in this country. (depending on where you live but should be true for most regions) So if the LEGAL residents are taking this menial labor, the most of the tax payers have to pay for the welfare anyways. Look at Walmart. They are one of the biggest employers in the country but since they do not have great benefitspackage, half (i think it's true but don't quote me on this) of the workers at Walmart are relying on welfare and medicare.
My point is to invest in higher education and adult education in this country so that we don't lose higher paying jobs to other countries. Sadly, it is already hapenning but can't stop the globalization.
BTW, there is no official language in the United States.
My point is to invest in higher education and adult education in this country so that we don't lose higher paying jobs to other countries. Sadly, it is already hapenning but can't stop the globalization.
BTW, there is no official language in the United States.
03-30-2006, 04:29 AM
#48
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man oh man. i totally agree with many of you. my parents are immigrants from the philippines and they were able to come over here because we already had family who had become U.S Citizens here and had them sponsored (this was about 30+ years ago), my family went through all the proper paperwork and documentation to become U.S Citizens. while in process, my parents worked hard (mom-worked at a bank, dad-one of the managers at Costco (Price Club)), never once needing government financial aid.
As many of you noticed, the manyof those protesting, especially the high school kids, don't even know what the f*ck they are protesting about. i was watching the news yesterday morning, and a one of the guys tried to interview a hispanic kid, and the hispanic kid (assuming he didn't want to be interviewed) replied on camera, "no habla ingles". So many of these illegal immigrants want to stay in the U.S but they don't even know how to speak english and they expect everyone to understand spanish. there is an elementary & middle school near my house that the classes are taught in Spanish..and it's not a Spanish class. it's for kids who can't speak or understand english.
I know many Asian immigrants who have came here and have all taken the proper steps to become a U.S Citizen legally. I don't know if any of you noticed, but Asian immigrants come here already understanding english and can speak it farely well, or if they don't understand, they are at least willing to learn and doesn't expect everyone to understand their native language. I'm tired of them trying to assimilate spanish into our society. If they don't know how to speak, read, or understand english and are not even TRYING to learn..then they shouldn't be here in the first place.
/rant
As many of you noticed, the manyof those protesting, especially the high school kids, don't even know what the f*ck they are protesting about. i was watching the news yesterday morning, and a one of the guys tried to interview a hispanic kid, and the hispanic kid (assuming he didn't want to be interviewed) replied on camera, "no habla ingles". So many of these illegal immigrants want to stay in the U.S but they don't even know how to speak english and they expect everyone to understand spanish. there is an elementary & middle school near my house that the classes are taught in Spanish..and it's not a Spanish class. it's for kids who can't speak or understand english.
I know many Asian immigrants who have came here and have all taken the proper steps to become a U.S Citizen legally. I don't know if any of you noticed, but Asian immigrants come here already understanding english and can speak it farely well, or if they don't understand, they are at least willing to learn and doesn't expect everyone to understand their native language. I'm tired of them trying to assimilate spanish into our society. If they don't know how to speak, read, or understand english and are not even TRYING to learn..then they shouldn't be here in the first place.
/rant
03-30-2006, 05:46 AM
#49
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^^^^^^^ its because they have discipline and drive to become somthing
03-30-2006, 06:57 AM
#50
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We were talkin about this in my government class.
I live in the monterey bay, CA... We have a HUGE amount of hispanics here, we have really big protests here... But to be completely honest, I dont understand all of it.
I assume the process of becoming a citizen takes a long time, probably takes money too, taxes right? yeah. Sure, the United States has huge opportunities, and these people are coming here to as the article said, "live the american dream" FINE. Come here, be an american. But it angers me when people are here waving mexican flags, speaking spanish and being upset because...why? I mean, I dont get it. Shouldn't we have a law that allows people to gain citizenship within a certain period of time? If they don't then unfortunately they go back. Why has this illigal immigration been slipping anyway?
And no, we cant enforce the border, doesnt that generally mean more taxes? Who wants to pay taxes? What politician will want to raise taxes this november? uh, no one I hope.
Honestly, it just makes me uneasy. I'm pacific islander (chamorro, filipino), african american and german... I'm a very odd mixture, I just happen to look hispanic. People come up to me and speak spanish to me (at work) and I'm like sorry I dont speak spanish, and they look at my frustrated and irritated like Im supposed to because Im brown. I dont like to get into any sort of racism because I've grown up here and Ive been here all my life, and I have friends and family of ever race you can think of. but in recent years it just seems that hispanics are overcrowding the cities here and people are getting uncomfortable with a majority of the population hispanic. thats what it is, their culture is much different, and people are alientating them because theyre getting uncomfortable in their environment. I read this somewhere, but they ARE forming communities with their own interests, and mexico's interests.
And I understnad people's concern that everyone is pointing out the hispanics, yes, there are other races that are ALSO illigal immigrants, but everyone knows and sees that most of these people are hispanic (and its easy to relate a feeling, or emotion with visuals). In my case, I live in an area where the majority IS hispanics.
Im just saying what I know, and how I feel, I dont know how those people feel, I'm extremely fortunate and I have no clue what its like to be in a family, going to another country to find hope for a better life as alot of these immigrants do.
I'd really like to know more and read more, I just hope it doesnt get out of hand, I hope it doesnt lead to more problems, were already fighting a war. I dont understand why people have to fight and use violence.
I live in the monterey bay, CA... We have a HUGE amount of hispanics here, we have really big protests here... But to be completely honest, I dont understand all of it.
I assume the process of becoming a citizen takes a long time, probably takes money too, taxes right? yeah. Sure, the United States has huge opportunities, and these people are coming here to as the article said, "live the american dream" FINE. Come here, be an american. But it angers me when people are here waving mexican flags, speaking spanish and being upset because...why? I mean, I dont get it. Shouldn't we have a law that allows people to gain citizenship within a certain period of time? If they don't then unfortunately they go back. Why has this illigal immigration been slipping anyway?
And no, we cant enforce the border, doesnt that generally mean more taxes? Who wants to pay taxes? What politician will want to raise taxes this november? uh, no one I hope.
Honestly, it just makes me uneasy. I'm pacific islander (chamorro, filipino), african american and german... I'm a very odd mixture, I just happen to look hispanic. People come up to me and speak spanish to me (at work) and I'm like sorry I dont speak spanish, and they look at my frustrated and irritated like Im supposed to because Im brown. I dont like to get into any sort of racism because I've grown up here and Ive been here all my life, and I have friends and family of ever race you can think of. but in recent years it just seems that hispanics are overcrowding the cities here and people are getting uncomfortable with a majority of the population hispanic. thats what it is, their culture is much different, and people are alientating them because theyre getting uncomfortable in their environment. I read this somewhere, but they ARE forming communities with their own interests, and mexico's interests.
And I understnad people's concern that everyone is pointing out the hispanics, yes, there are other races that are ALSO illigal immigrants, but everyone knows and sees that most of these people are hispanic (and its easy to relate a feeling, or emotion with visuals). In my case, I live in an area where the majority IS hispanics.
Im just saying what I know, and how I feel, I dont know how those people feel, I'm extremely fortunate and I have no clue what its like to be in a family, going to another country to find hope for a better life as alot of these immigrants do.
I'd really like to know more and read more, I just hope it doesnt get out of hand, I hope it doesnt lead to more problems, were already fighting a war. I dont understand why people have to fight and use violence.
03-30-2006, 08:03 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by Prock2305
It's lame that people are protesting. I think its lame that illegals come in and set up shop and take jobs away from US citizens
People use that same lame a$$ excuse all the time to say that immigrants or lets just say who this topic is about- mexicans, take all our jobs. They work their a$$es off doing the jobs that 95% of Americans don't even wanna do. So if all of you wanna deport all the mexicans go ahead, but don't start complaining when our country goes into a recession cause no one will do all the jobs that mexicans had taken away from americans to begin with. 
The reason this thread hits a nerve with me, is because my dad was born in Mexico. He came to the states and worked his a$$ off, went to college and joined the U.S. Air Force, where he served for 21 years. So don't assume that all mexicans just come to the states and leach off all the "hard working" americans, some like my father actually do something for themselves and occasionally devote 21 years of their lives serving this country.
03-30-2006, 08:13 AM
#52
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i think we need to make a separtion between undocumented and documented workers, illegal immigrants, and immigrants, most people assume that we are talking about hispanics, which in partial truth yes, but thier alot of illegal immigrants from other countries as well, it just seems everyone is pointing fingers at the mexicans because they are the most visable.
but lets not forget the others who come here illegally as well, the problem is widespread, and we happen to get alot of illegal immigrants who come through canada who are actually comming via canada from europe, and the old soviet union, and the middle east.
but lets not forget the others who come here illegally as well, the problem is widespread, and we happen to get alot of illegal immigrants who come through canada who are actually comming via canada from europe, and the old soviet union, and the middle east.
03-30-2006, 08:26 AM
#53
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I wonder which illegal immigrants people would prefer come to the U.S., Hispanics that do all the crappy jobs that they stole from Americans, or terrorists that come over and crash planes into buildings?
03-30-2006, 08:32 AM
#54
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well if i remeber correctly the terrorists who did it the last time had student visas.......
that irritates me too, they need to really crack down on student visas, alot of foreign terrorists are actually american educated, or have spend some time in the U.S.
as for who i would prefer, i would prefer documented workers, in fact we get immigration sweeps weekly on our farms, and i think they only found one illegal in the last 9 monthes, and at any given time we have about 1200 workers working our fields.
that irritates me too, they need to really crack down on student visas, alot of foreign terrorists are actually american educated, or have spend some time in the U.S.
as for who i would prefer, i would prefer documented workers, in fact we get immigration sweeps weekly on our farms, and i think they only found one illegal in the last 9 monthes, and at any given time we have about 1200 workers working our fields.
03-30-2006, 10:01 AM
#55
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: extremeautogpx.com
Posts: 326
the march or rallys is against the new law
they want to do a felony if you help any illegal (food, housing, medical services,employment,)
example let say you give a ride to the school one of your friends and one is illegal and you are stop by a cop they going to charged you for felony // 2 years or more in jail
and you know about it, just take a look in salinas ,watsonville, castroville, prundale, hollister, las lomas, population is about 80% hispanic
i never seen in my life an american working in a strawberry fields i work for 1 week and i quit is the harder job that i know $ 4.15 x hour + $1 per box 12 hours or more
most of the people who post in this forums they dont have a idea why this people are here, they dont want to stay, they dont want your jobs, they just want a little bit of money to feed theirs families
are you seen somebody who die in USA starving, or because they dont have medical services? never
before you guys post your bunch of $h%&^
use your computer to research about it.
like a say before i want to see that day when all the illegal or legals return to theirs origin countries and then you going to understant how important is the inmigration
i read alot in this topic about people that say they can become resident in legal way
yes your are right the legal way take about 16 years
they want to do a felony if you help any illegal (food, housing, medical services,employment,)
example let say you give a ride to the school one of your friends and one is illegal and you are stop by a cop they going to charged you for felony // 2 years or more in jail
and you know about it, just take a look in salinas ,watsonville, castroville, prundale, hollister, las lomas, population is about 80% hispanic
i never seen in my life an american working in a strawberry fields i work for 1 week and i quit is the harder job that i know $ 4.15 x hour + $1 per box 12 hours or more
most of the people who post in this forums they dont have a idea why this people are here, they dont want to stay, they dont want your jobs, they just want a little bit of money to feed theirs families
are you seen somebody who die in USA starving, or because they dont have medical services? never
before you guys post your bunch of $h%&^
use your computer to research about it.
like a say before i want to see that day when all the illegal or legals return to theirs origin countries and then you going to understant how important is the inmigration
i read alot in this topic about people that say they can become resident in legal way
yes your are right the legal way take about 16 years
03-30-2006, 10:09 AM
#56
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: extremeautogpx.com
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by Kilo6_one
well if i remeber correctly the terrorists who did it the last time had student visas.......
that irritates me too, they need to really crack down on student visas, alot of foreign terrorists are actually american educated, or have spend some time in the U.S.
as for who i would prefer, i would prefer documented workers, in fact we get immigration sweeps weekly on our farms, and i think they only found one illegal in the last 9 monthes, and at any given time we have about 1200 workers working our fields.
that irritates me too, they need to really crack down on student visas, alot of foreign terrorists are actually american educated, or have spend some time in the U.S.
as for who i would prefer, i would prefer documented workers, in fact we get immigration sweeps weekly on our farms, and i think they only found one illegal in the last 9 monthes, and at any given time we have about 1200 workers working our fields.
all the money that you save yourself paying minumun wages to those guys
03-30-2006, 11:33 AM
#57
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Osan AB, South Korea
Posts: 397
Originally Posted by jaimecosio
the march or rallys is against the new law
they want to do a felony if you help any illegal (food, housing, medical services,employment,)
example let say you give a ride to the school one of your friends and one is illegal and you are stop by a cop they going to charged you for felony // 2 years or more in jail
and you know about it, just take a look in salinas ,watsonville, castroville, prundale, hollister, las lomas, population is about 80% hispanic
i never seen in my life an american working in a strawberry fields i work for 1 week and i quit is the harder job that i know $ 4.15 x hour + $1 per box 12 hours or more
most of the people who post in this forums they dont have a idea why this people are here, they dont want to stay, they dont want your jobs, they just want a little bit of money to feed theirs families
are you seen somebody who die in USA starving, or because they dont have medical services? never
before you guys post your bunch of $h%&^
use your computer to research about it.
like a say before i want to see that day when all the illegal or legals return to theirs origin countries and then you going to understant how important is the inmigration
i read alot in this topic about people that say they can become resident in legal way
yes your are right the legal way take about 16 years
they want to do a felony if you help any illegal (food, housing, medical services,employment,)
example let say you give a ride to the school one of your friends and one is illegal and you are stop by a cop they going to charged you for felony // 2 years or more in jail
and you know about it, just take a look in salinas ,watsonville, castroville, prundale, hollister, las lomas, population is about 80% hispanic
i never seen in my life an american working in a strawberry fields i work for 1 week and i quit is the harder job that i know $ 4.15 x hour + $1 per box 12 hours or more
most of the people who post in this forums they dont have a idea why this people are here, they dont want to stay, they dont want your jobs, they just want a little bit of money to feed theirs families
are you seen somebody who die in USA starving, or because they dont have medical services? never
before you guys post your bunch of $h%&^
use your computer to research about it.
like a say before i want to see that day when all the illegal or legals return to theirs origin countries and then you going to understant how important is the inmigration
i read alot in this topic about people that say they can become resident in legal way
yes your are right the legal way take about 16 years
03-30-2006, 02:37 PM
#58
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,457
Originally Posted by InjentC23
Originally Posted by Prock2305
It's lame that people are protesting. I think its lame that illegals come in and set up shop and take jobs away from US citizens
People use that same lame a$$ excuse all the time to say that immigrants or lets just say who this topic is about- mexicans, take all our jobs. They work their a$$es off doing the jobs that 95% of Americans don't even wanna do. So if all of you wanna deport all the mexicans go ahead, but don't start complaining when our country goes into a recession cause no one will do all the jobs that mexicans had taken away from americans to begin with.Did you know that if lettuce was picked by workers earning $10/hr, the average head of lettuce would raise in price by 2 cents? TWO CENTS. I would have no problem paying a few pennies more for my food knowing that border security was increased because of it.
I know (for fact) that if thet paid field workers a living wage, plenty of Americans would do the work.
03-30-2006, 02:38 PM
#59
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,004
HOUSTON PRINCIPAL FLIES MEXICAN FLAG OVER SCHOOL!
Opinions split over red, white and green
Mexican flags divisive topic as principal shows his support for student protests
By JENNIFER RADCLIFFE
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle
Reagan High School Principal Robert Pambello was ordered to remove a Mexican flag Wednesday morning that he had hoisted below the U.S. and Texas flags that typically fly in front of his school — a symbol he agreed to fly to show support for his predominantly Hispanic student body.
At nearby Hamilton Middle School, a child was asked to wipe off Mexican and U.S. flags painted on his face. Hundreds of other students carried Mexican flags during walkouts Wednesday — acts of protest that they vow to continue until Congress rejects legislation that would further restrict immigration.
"There's no other way to be heard ... It's not the best way or the right way, but it's our way," Reagan freshman Jose Lopez, 14, said of the effort.
The Mexican flag has become a lightning rod in the immigration debate that's consumed the city and the nation this week. Students say the flag represents their pride in the contributions Mexicans make to this country. Critics, though, said watching young Hispanics in the streets with the red, green and white flags is more than they can stand. These youngsters are in the United States and should — at the least — carry the U.S. flag, they argue.
"The whole thing just makes my blood boil," said Bruce R. Wing, a 52-year-old Missouri City resident. "I want them all out of here."
Wing said the Houston Independent School District should fire Pambello.
HISD leaders said no decision has been made about possible discipline against the principal, who declined interview requests Wednesday.
"It is appropriate to fly the flags of the United States and Texas over schools in the Houston Independent School District, since we are a public entity of the state," HISD spokesman Terry Abbott said. "It would not be appropriate for the school district to advocate allegiance to a country other than the United States. Therefore, it is not appropriate to permit use of school district flagpoles for the purpose of flying flags representing other countries."
Raul Ramos, a professor of Texas history at the University of Houston, said most Mexican-Americans see no contradiction in flying the Mexican flag alongside those of Texas and the United States.
"Most students at Reagan High School have relatives or ancestors from Mexico," said Ramos. "The flag represents Mexican heritage as much if not more than citizenship."
Historical research
Ramos noted that there is a long Texas history of both flags flying. He has found Mexican and Texas flags interwined during Mexican Independence Day parades in such cities as Laredo, El Paso and San Antonio dating to 1910.
Calling HISD's decision a reaction to cultural anxiety, he said, "it's important for the school to make efforts to identify with the student body," not vice versa. "The school, after all, reflects the ethnic identity of the students sitting in its classrooms."
Nearly 60 percent of HISD's 200,000-plus students are Hispanic.
Plan to raise flag today
Some Reagan students said they will try to raise a Mexican flag again today. They said they want it to fly at least above the Texas flag on the pole.
"Just because you're in the country doesn't mean you can't show your culture," said Lewis Ramirez, 16, a sophomore at Reagan High.
Carina Muriel, a junior at Channelview High School, said she doesn't think it's appropriate for her rallying classmates to carry Mexican flags.
"If they really want to show devotion, they should be carrying U.S. flags," she said.
Muriel said students at her school are walking out, wearing white shirts and carrying Mexican flags.
"More than half don't even know why they are doing it," she said. "It seems to me that they just want to be part of something big, but they don't know what it is. They've never before cared about politics, or what was going on with our government. The reason they care now is because it gives them a chance to cut class."
Jose Cantu, 18, a junior at Reagan, said he read the 54-page bill Wednesday so he could understand why he's protesting. "It got confusing," he said. "So I wanted to see the whole thing."
Districts ponder problem
School districts, meanwhile, are trying to figure out how to allow children to learn about the issues and express their feelings while also disciplining those who continue to walk out of class in protest.
"I so appreciate the fact that young people are getting excited about what's going on in their country. What could be more inspiring than seeing children wanting to have their voices heard in their political process?" said HISD trustee Natasha M. Kamrani, who represents the neighborhoods that feed into Reagan. "But there's a way to protest and then there's a way to organize to make change."
To accomplish that, students need to be in class learning and preparing for college, she said.
About 300 students from North Shore and Galena Park high schools staged protests outside their schools Wednesday — the first organized protests to be held in that district.
"It picked up today for us," said Staci Stanfield, spokeswoman for the Galena Park District. "I think they're watching it. We've seen kind of copycat protests that have cropped up throughout the entire country and area."
Baytown march
In Baytown, about 50 students — some waving Mexican flags — skipped class to march from one of the town's two high schools, Robert E. Lee, where nearly half of the 2,511 students are Hispanic.
About 200 Alvin High School students participated in an early-morning march. Though most of the students had returned to school by 10 a.m., a group of about 40 students made a 10-mile trek to Pearland High School, Alvin ISD spokeswoman Shirley Brothers said.
Students demanded to meet with Alvin Mayor Andy Reyes, who eventually agreed to meet with a delegation of students today.
Oscar DeLeon, a parent of three children in the protest, left work to watch the march.
"I support them. They've got their rights," he said.
Alvin High School Principal Kevon Wells, who also watched the group, said the students will be treated as truants. Punishment can include after-school detention and being assigned to an alternative school campus, he said.
Text messages spread word
Students said the makeshift rally was publicized through text messages.
A text message sent by an HISD student Wednesday encouraged more walkouts.
Part of it read: "Do ANY of you know how much money our schools make for each student that attends everyday ... Imagine how much money they would lose if we didn't go."
HISD Superintendent Abelardo Saavedra has vowed harsher punishments for students who continue to miss classes to protest.
The 50 Marshall Middle School students who made their way to City Hall on Wednesday, for example, could be suspended for up to three days, officials said.
The district had to spend $5,500 Tuesday to transport 30 busloads of students from City Hall back to Austin, Davis and Sam Houston high schools.
"Any student who engages in this kind of activity today can be suspended for up to three days, and may be removed from school outright," Abbott said. "There also are severe academic consequences."
Chronicle reporters Todd Ackerman, Alexis Grant, Cindy Horswell and Richard Stewart contributed to this report.
KHOU Channel 11 also contributed to this report
Opinions split over red, white and green
Mexican flags divisive topic as principal shows his support for student protests
By JENNIFER RADCLIFFE
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle
Reagan High School Principal Robert Pambello was ordered to remove a Mexican flag Wednesday morning that he had hoisted below the U.S. and Texas flags that typically fly in front of his school — a symbol he agreed to fly to show support for his predominantly Hispanic student body.
At nearby Hamilton Middle School, a child was asked to wipe off Mexican and U.S. flags painted on his face. Hundreds of other students carried Mexican flags during walkouts Wednesday — acts of protest that they vow to continue until Congress rejects legislation that would further restrict immigration.
"There's no other way to be heard ... It's not the best way or the right way, but it's our way," Reagan freshman Jose Lopez, 14, said of the effort.
The Mexican flag has become a lightning rod in the immigration debate that's consumed the city and the nation this week. Students say the flag represents their pride in the contributions Mexicans make to this country. Critics, though, said watching young Hispanics in the streets with the red, green and white flags is more than they can stand. These youngsters are in the United States and should — at the least — carry the U.S. flag, they argue.
"The whole thing just makes my blood boil," said Bruce R. Wing, a 52-year-old Missouri City resident. "I want them all out of here."
Wing said the Houston Independent School District should fire Pambello.
HISD leaders said no decision has been made about possible discipline against the principal, who declined interview requests Wednesday.
"It is appropriate to fly the flags of the United States and Texas over schools in the Houston Independent School District, since we are a public entity of the state," HISD spokesman Terry Abbott said. "It would not be appropriate for the school district to advocate allegiance to a country other than the United States. Therefore, it is not appropriate to permit use of school district flagpoles for the purpose of flying flags representing other countries."
Raul Ramos, a professor of Texas history at the University of Houston, said most Mexican-Americans see no contradiction in flying the Mexican flag alongside those of Texas and the United States.
"Most students at Reagan High School have relatives or ancestors from Mexico," said Ramos. "The flag represents Mexican heritage as much if not more than citizenship."
Historical research
Ramos noted that there is a long Texas history of both flags flying. He has found Mexican and Texas flags interwined during Mexican Independence Day parades in such cities as Laredo, El Paso and San Antonio dating to 1910.
Calling HISD's decision a reaction to cultural anxiety, he said, "it's important for the school to make efforts to identify with the student body," not vice versa. "The school, after all, reflects the ethnic identity of the students sitting in its classrooms."
Nearly 60 percent of HISD's 200,000-plus students are Hispanic.
Plan to raise flag today
Some Reagan students said they will try to raise a Mexican flag again today. They said they want it to fly at least above the Texas flag on the pole.
"Just because you're in the country doesn't mean you can't show your culture," said Lewis Ramirez, 16, a sophomore at Reagan High.
Carina Muriel, a junior at Channelview High School, said she doesn't think it's appropriate for her rallying classmates to carry Mexican flags.
"If they really want to show devotion, they should be carrying U.S. flags," she said.
Muriel said students at her school are walking out, wearing white shirts and carrying Mexican flags.
"More than half don't even know why they are doing it," she said. "It seems to me that they just want to be part of something big, but they don't know what it is. They've never before cared about politics, or what was going on with our government. The reason they care now is because it gives them a chance to cut class."
Jose Cantu, 18, a junior at Reagan, said he read the 54-page bill Wednesday so he could understand why he's protesting. "It got confusing," he said. "So I wanted to see the whole thing."
Districts ponder problem
School districts, meanwhile, are trying to figure out how to allow children to learn about the issues and express their feelings while also disciplining those who continue to walk out of class in protest.
"I so appreciate the fact that young people are getting excited about what's going on in their country. What could be more inspiring than seeing children wanting to have their voices heard in their political process?" said HISD trustee Natasha M. Kamrani, who represents the neighborhoods that feed into Reagan. "But there's a way to protest and then there's a way to organize to make change."
To accomplish that, students need to be in class learning and preparing for college, she said.
About 300 students from North Shore and Galena Park high schools staged protests outside their schools Wednesday — the first organized protests to be held in that district.
"It picked up today for us," said Staci Stanfield, spokeswoman for the Galena Park District. "I think they're watching it. We've seen kind of copycat protests that have cropped up throughout the entire country and area."
Baytown march
In Baytown, about 50 students — some waving Mexican flags — skipped class to march from one of the town's two high schools, Robert E. Lee, where nearly half of the 2,511 students are Hispanic.
About 200 Alvin High School students participated in an early-morning march. Though most of the students had returned to school by 10 a.m., a group of about 40 students made a 10-mile trek to Pearland High School, Alvin ISD spokeswoman Shirley Brothers said.
Students demanded to meet with Alvin Mayor Andy Reyes, who eventually agreed to meet with a delegation of students today.
Oscar DeLeon, a parent of three children in the protest, left work to watch the march.
"I support them. They've got their rights," he said.
Alvin High School Principal Kevon Wells, who also watched the group, said the students will be treated as truants. Punishment can include after-school detention and being assigned to an alternative school campus, he said.
Text messages spread word
Students said the makeshift rally was publicized through text messages.
A text message sent by an HISD student Wednesday encouraged more walkouts.
Part of it read: "Do ANY of you know how much money our schools make for each student that attends everyday ... Imagine how much money they would lose if we didn't go."
HISD Superintendent Abelardo Saavedra has vowed harsher punishments for students who continue to miss classes to protest.
The 50 Marshall Middle School students who made their way to City Hall on Wednesday, for example, could be suspended for up to three days, officials said.
The district had to spend $5,500 Tuesday to transport 30 busloads of students from City Hall back to Austin, Davis and Sam Houston high schools.
"Any student who engages in this kind of activity today can be suspended for up to three days, and may be removed from school outright," Abbott said. "There also are severe academic consequences."
Chronicle reporters Todd Ackerman, Alexis Grant, Cindy Horswell and Richard Stewart contributed to this report.
KHOU Channel 11 also contributed to this report
03-30-2006, 03:12 PM
#60
Senior Member
StyleWagons
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,459
Originally Posted by InjentC23
Originally Posted by Prock2305
It's lame that people are protesting. I think its lame that illegals come in and set up shop and take jobs away from US citizens
People use that same lame a$$ excuse all the time to say that immigrants or lets just say who this topic is about- mexicans, take all our jobs. They work their a$$es off doing the jobs that 95% of Americans don't even wanna do. So if all of you wanna deport all the mexicans go ahead, but don't start complaining when our country goes into a recession cause no one will do all the jobs that mexicans had taken away from americans to begin with. The reason this thread hits a nerve with me, is because my dad was born in Mexico. He came to the states and worked his a$$ off, went to college and joined the U.S. Air Force, where he served for 21 years. So don't assume that all mexicans just come to the states and leach off all the "hard working" americans, some like my father actually do something for themselves and occasionally devote 21 years of their lives serving this country.