View Poll Results: what do you think about the illegal immigration problem?
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Immigration Reform
04-01-2006, 07:30 PM
#141
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Originally Posted by TimmyT
Race has nothing to do with anything in these posts.
But nice to know where your head is.
These posts are about illegal immigrants (wich can be from any nation of any nationality and race).
But nice to know where your head is.
These posts are about illegal immigrants (wich can be from any nation of any nationality and race).
04-01-2006, 10:35 PM
#142
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Posted: 4/1/06 2:09AM Post subject:
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^^^^
You are right in saying companies shouldn't seek illegal or recruit illegal immigrants for employment.
You are wrong in thinking that only the companies that do the employing benefit. Illegal immigrants have an EXPONENTIAL improvment in standards of living compared to their lives in mexico.
I personally was born in Korea, and am a citizen born abroad. My mother is korean and had to go through all the testing and red tape to get her citizenship in the US.
You think red tape and regulations on immigration to the US just popped up in the 80s under the Regan administration? Regulating immigration has been around since the 18th century.
If 100% of illegal immigrants benefitted the US in anyway this would not be an issue. If 50% of illegal immigrants were contributing to the economy or any other way influenced the standard of living in anyway, there would be less of an issue.
Employed Illegal immigrants bring down wages of other US citizens in the same job. Hurting the economy, forcing a larger percentage of people to enroll for government aid, Blowing up the population....
its kind of like the new-age medicines you see on television.
"Do you have a runny nose? Take Brand X medicine and you won't have a runny nose anymore!.... but you might get diarreah, neausia, dizzy spells, bloody nose, and runny nose... if runny nose persists for more than 4 days consult a physician
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^^^^
You are right in saying companies shouldn't seek illegal or recruit illegal immigrants for employment.
You are wrong in thinking that only the companies that do the employing benefit. Illegal immigrants have an EXPONENTIAL improvment in standards of living compared to their lives in mexico.
I personally was born in Korea, and am a citizen born abroad. My mother is korean and had to go through all the testing and red tape to get her citizenship in the US.
You think red tape and regulations on immigration to the US just popped up in the 80s under the Regan administration? Regulating immigration has been around since the 18th century.
If 100% of illegal immigrants benefitted the US in anyway this would not be an issue. If 50% of illegal immigrants were contributing to the economy or any other way influenced the standard of living in anyway, there would be less of an issue.
Employed Illegal immigrants bring down wages of other US citizens in the same job. Hurting the economy, forcing a larger percentage of people to enroll for government aid, Blowing up the population....
its kind of like the new-age medicines you see on television.
"Do you have a runny nose? Take Brand X medicine and you won't have a runny nose anymore!.... but you might get diarreah, neausia, dizzy spells, bloody nose, and runny nose... if runny nose persists for more than 4 days consult a physician
That is my point also.
I agree that illegal immigration is just that, illegal. However you must first understand that they didn't come here to steal our jobs and destroy our way of life. They came here to work hard and put food on the table for their families. It would be un-American NOT to support that idea.
04-02-2006, 06:18 AM
#143
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Oh yeah, well why are we in Iraq right now? Why couldn't the Iraqi's pull themselves up by their bootstraps and overthrow their dictator themselves? Obviously you don't realize that right now the business of America is not in protectionism and isolationism. We are far from that point. The government is making deals left and right with other foreign nations, including Mexico. Right now, Bush is making deals with Vincente Fox to facilitate the arrival of migrant workers from Mexico. Who benefits from this? I'll give you a clue, it's not you or I.
04-02-2006, 06:25 AM
#144
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Originally Posted by TimmyT
You are wrong in thinking that only the companies that do the employing benefit. Illegal immigrants have an EXPONENTIAL improvment in standards of living compared to their lives in mexico.
Originally Posted by TimmyT
Employed Illegal immigrants bring down wages of other US citizens in the same job. Hurting the economy, forcing a larger percentage of people to enroll for government aid, Blowing up the population....
04-02-2006, 06:34 AM
#145
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Okay. I said thier standard of living is better.
But they are not willing to become citizens or not able to become citizens because they are not willing to do those things, like learn english to take the test etc.
They are parasites. Sorry to say but they are.
They are such because parasites benefit from its host. and the host suffers. Wich is exactly what is happening in the US.
But they are not willing to become citizens or not able to become citizens because they are not willing to do those things, like learn english to take the test etc.
They are parasites. Sorry to say but they are.
They are such because parasites benefit from its host. and the host suffers. Wich is exactly what is happening in the US.
04-02-2006, 07:11 AM
#146
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Originally Posted by HeathenBrewing
Have you ever considered WHY he (and his ilk) wants to grant amnesty?
Its so the rich can continue to get richer on the backs of illegal aliens. And in my opinion, that is exactly why amnesity will be coming to an illegal near you. It has nothing to do with border security or any of that jive.....it is about what EVERYTHING is ALWAYS about...money.
And here on Cesar Chavez day, I wonder how many people REALLY understand what he was about. The reason why thirty years ago United Farm Workers' Union (UFW) founder Caesar Chávez fought against illegal immigration, and the UFW turned in illegals during his tenure as president, was because Chávez, like progressives since the 1870s, understood the simple reality that labor rises and falls in price as a function of availability.
As Wikipedia notes: "In 1969, Chávez and members of the UFW marched through the Imperial and Coachella Valley to the border of Mexico to protest growers' use of illegal aliens as temporary replacement workers during a strike. Joining him on the march were both the Reverend Ralph Abernathy and U.S. Senator Walter Mondale. Chávez and the UFW would often report suspected illegal aliens who served as temporary replacement workers as well as who refused to unionize to the INS."
It is a simple equation: More workers, lower wages. Fewer workers, higher wages.
I am sick of hearing about this crap about "Americans wont do the jobs illegals do".
Do a little math. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says there are 7.6 million unemployed Americans right now. Another 1.5 million Americans are no longer counted because they've become "long term" or "discouraged" unemployed workers. And although various groups have different ways of measuring it, most agree that at least another five to ten million Americans are either working part-time when they want to work full-time, or are "underemployed," doing jobs below their level of training, education, or experience. That's between eight and twenty million un- and under-employed Americans, many unable to find above-poverty-level work.
At the same time, there are between seven and fifteen million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool.
If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.
Its so the rich can continue to get richer on the backs of illegal aliens. And in my opinion, that is exactly why amnesity will be coming to an illegal near you. It has nothing to do with border security or any of that jive.....it is about what EVERYTHING is ALWAYS about...money.
And here on Cesar Chavez day, I wonder how many people REALLY understand what he was about. The reason why thirty years ago United Farm Workers' Union (UFW) founder Caesar Chávez fought against illegal immigration, and the UFW turned in illegals during his tenure as president, was because Chávez, like progressives since the 1870s, understood the simple reality that labor rises and falls in price as a function of availability.
As Wikipedia notes: "In 1969, Chávez and members of the UFW marched through the Imperial and Coachella Valley to the border of Mexico to protest growers' use of illegal aliens as temporary replacement workers during a strike. Joining him on the march were both the Reverend Ralph Abernathy and U.S. Senator Walter Mondale. Chávez and the UFW would often report suspected illegal aliens who served as temporary replacement workers as well as who refused to unionize to the INS."
It is a simple equation: More workers, lower wages. Fewer workers, higher wages.
I am sick of hearing about this crap about "Americans wont do the jobs illegals do".
Do a little math. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says there are 7.6 million unemployed Americans right now. Another 1.5 million Americans are no longer counted because they've become "long term" or "discouraged" unemployed workers. And although various groups have different ways of measuring it, most agree that at least another five to ten million Americans are either working part-time when they want to work full-time, or are "underemployed," doing jobs below their level of training, education, or experience. That's between eight and twenty million un- and under-employed Americans, many unable to find above-poverty-level work.
At the same time, there are between seven and fifteen million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool.
If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.
i kid, i kid.
04-02-2006, 08:01 AM
#147
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The thing is, our government is seeking to facilitate the influx of migrant workers into America. They're more or less seeking to make the immigrants that are here illegally, legal by establishing a guest worker program. Bush has said it himself, these immigrants are here to do the low paying jobs that Americans won't do. Minimum wage isn't going to increase, since our "guest workers" would be more than happy to work for minimum wage.
Jobs are being outsourced all the time to foreign countries such as India. What is Bush's solution? "Go learn a new skill."
But hey, I'm all for learning new skills, I'm only 19... I'm still wet behind the ears, as they say. However, tell someone that has been in his career field for 20+ years that his job is being outsourced and to "Go learn a new skill"... He may feel differently about it.
Jobs are being outsourced all the time to foreign countries such as India. What is Bush's solution? "Go learn a new skill."
But hey, I'm all for learning new skills, I'm only 19... I'm still wet behind the ears, as they say. However, tell someone that has been in his career field for 20+ years that his job is being outsourced and to "Go learn a new skill"... He may feel differently about it.
04-02-2006, 06:00 PM
#148
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You don't see what you are saying do you....
You said it yourself the minimum wage won't increase due to illegal immigrants, and you are with the "If you don't like it.. Get some edumacation" Crew.
While the minimum wage does not increase. The Cost of living increases.
Because of this the domino effect of people getting government aid. and staying on those programs for years upon years.
You said it yourself the minimum wage won't increase due to illegal immigrants, and you are with the "If you don't like it.. Get some edumacation" Crew.
While the minimum wage does not increase. The Cost of living increases.
Because of this the domino effect of people getting government aid. and staying on those programs for years upon years.
04-02-2006, 09:45 PM
#149
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to weigh in without goofing, have any of you read an actual proposal? McCain was on Meet the Press and did a pretty good job explaining the issues and proposed solutions.
illegals will allegedly have to have worked 6 years here to apply for their green card. they will have to learn to speak and read english and they will be responsible for any back taxes before they can get the card. they will then have to wait an additional 4 to 5 years to apply for citizenship and only if they have remained above board.
when confronted with the opposing view of "but they're illegal", McCain asked what else can we do? we certainly can't deport 11 million people, there's no budget for it and the economy relies on their labor. so our choices are to create a system to make them legal and tighten our borders to stem the flow or deport 11 million people and ruin the economy or leave things as they are pretending illegal immigration isn't an issue.
i'm "gonna wait and see" before deciding it's a bad idea.
illegals will allegedly have to have worked 6 years here to apply for their green card. they will have to learn to speak and read english and they will be responsible for any back taxes before they can get the card. they will then have to wait an additional 4 to 5 years to apply for citizenship and only if they have remained above board.
when confronted with the opposing view of "but they're illegal", McCain asked what else can we do? we certainly can't deport 11 million people, there's no budget for it and the economy relies on their labor. so our choices are to create a system to make them legal and tighten our borders to stem the flow or deport 11 million people and ruin the economy or leave things as they are pretending illegal immigration isn't an issue.
i'm "gonna wait and see" before deciding it's a bad idea.
04-03-2006, 12:13 AM
#150
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Originally Posted by TimmyT
You don't see what you are saying do you....
You said it yourself the minimum wage won't increase due to illegal immigrants, and you are with the "If you don't like it.. Get some edumacation" Crew.
While the minimum wage does not increase. The Cost of living increases.
Because of this the domino effect of people getting government aid. and staying on those programs for years upon years.
You said it yourself the minimum wage won't increase due to illegal immigrants, and you are with the "If you don't like it.. Get some edumacation" Crew.
While the minimum wage does not increase. The Cost of living increases.
Because of this the domino effect of people getting government aid. and staying on those programs for years upon years.
?
04-03-2006, 03:16 AM
#151
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Originally Posted by Scott17
You neglected to say if he came legally or illegaly.
04-03-2006, 02:48 PM
#152
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Originally Posted by BSP_5c10n
Originally Posted by ISmokeGuys
On another note. There should be an option to Send them all back home except for the bad a$$ hispanic chicks that call their mens Papi during sex... 
I actually wrote that quote, but the Server is screwing up my g/f SN and mine. AND it was a JOKE...You know...HAHA..Funny...J/K...Need anymore examples?
04-03-2006, 02:51 PM
#153
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Originally Posted by BSP_5c10n
Originally Posted by ISmokeGuys
Originally Posted by BSP_5c10n
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by BSP_5c10n
You know the thing is... If the incentives for illegal immigrants were taken away, then there wouldn't be illegal immigration. Instead of punishing the illegal immigrants, the people in America who brought them here, or are hiring them should be punished.
It's similar (although not exact) to the situation of African-Americans and slavery. Very few people had a problem with Africans being brought to the United States as slaves. However, once the abolitionist movement succeeded, these slaves were made free. No longer slaves, yet were denied the rights enjoyed by white Americans. Once they began to speak up during the Civil Rights movement, people had a problem with it. It's almost as if many of you are willing to look the other way when it comes to injustices in the world, until you feel threatened by it. It seems that you wouldn't have a problem with Mexicans being brought into the U.S. illegally, as long as you didn't have to "pay your tax money" for it.
Now, to refute any argument stating "Oh but the blacks were forced into coming here. The Mexicans are coming here on there own. It's different." Let me just say I am aware of this, however let me ask you this: If you were making 5 dollars a day in Mexico versus 60 across the border, wouldn't you feel almost forced to leave your country to find a job with enough pay to feed your family? I think you would.
Of course, you'd be okay with all this. Heck, they're doing the jobs you don't want to do. It's okay as long as you don't have to foot the bill for it. It's like "Well it doesn't affect me, so whatever." Well, now millions of illegals currently reside in the U.S., and now you feel it's affecting you. Well it's too late. And who is to blame? Not the illegal immigrants, but those who hired them and gave them incentive to come here.
It's similar (although not exact) to the situation of African-Americans and slavery. Very few people had a problem with Africans being brought to the United States as slaves. However, once the abolitionist movement succeeded, these slaves were made free. No longer slaves, yet were denied the rights enjoyed by white Americans. Once they began to speak up during the Civil Rights movement, people had a problem with it. It's almost as if many of you are willing to look the other way when it comes to injustices in the world, until you feel threatened by it. It seems that you wouldn't have a problem with Mexicans being brought into the U.S. illegally, as long as you didn't have to "pay your tax money" for it.
Now, to refute any argument stating "Oh but the blacks were forced into coming here. The Mexicans are coming here on there own. It's different." Let me just say I am aware of this, however let me ask you this: If you were making 5 dollars a day in Mexico versus 60 across the border, wouldn't you feel almost forced to leave your country to find a job with enough pay to feed your family? I think you would.
Of course, you'd be okay with all this. Heck, they're doing the jobs you don't want to do. It's okay as long as you don't have to foot the bill for it. It's like "Well it doesn't affect me, so whatever." Well, now millions of illegals currently reside in the U.S., and now you feel it's affecting you. Well it's too late. And who is to blame? Not the illegal immigrants, but those who hired them and gave them incentive to come here.
Don't you DARE try to compare an Illegal immigrant from Mexico to Slavery....That is the most OBSURD comparison I have ever heard. Obviously you are not black, so you make a stupid comaprsion like that. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO HITTING THE MARK buddy.
You missed the main point of that post. Slavery is a far different matter. I was just saying that people looked the other way when this was going on. White Americans brought the Africans to the United States. When slavery was abolished, blacks were looking for their rights and they were SHUNNED. Illegal immigrants are being brought into the United States all the time. There are incentives given, by American businesses, to come here and work illegally. Now there are millions of illegal immigrants, many perhaps who are looking to become citizens one day, and they are being shunned and saying they should all be sent back to where they came from.
Right away, someone takes my post the wrong way and it strikes a chord.
btw, how do you know I'm not black? Did I mention that somewhere? Do you have a picture of me somewhere? Am I too articulate to be black? You don't know jack.
I don't care what your point was. The SHEAR SIMPLE FACT that you TRIED to make a point by trying to cross reference Slavery (as if there was any relation between it and the current situation) tells me that you are not black. And if you were, then sir I would advise you to trace back your roots. And I'm not talking about some crack pot history book from your Highschool class being taught by a crappy gym teacher. There is NO.....I REPEAT....NO, correlation/relationship/similarity/common ground......WHATEVER word you choose that would somehow tie Slavery with the current situation of people coming here illegally.
Drop it now, cause I can almost gaurantee that no one will EVER by that sad attempt to justify illegal aliens feeding off the system by trying to tie it with Slavery.
So, do me a favor and drop that now, because I will bust a blood vessle in my head from replying to your lack of educational post, and the mods will step in and lock this thing down. So, please, find another point to use.
WHERE DID I EVER CALL YOU A RACIST? I said you were UNEDUCATED. The Civil Rights movement, AGAIN....NO PARALLEL to the current events. Kill that Noise!
04-03-2006, 03:20 PM
#154
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Sending ILLEGAL's back is not a problem. A very simple 2 step solution.
1) Fine ANY company caught with ILLEGAL's working for them. Fine base starts at $100,000 PER ILLEGAL. 30 days to comply. NO EXCEPTIONS
2) No valid SS number and proof of legal residence- No welfare benefits PERIOD.
Illegals will RUN back to the border.
1) Fine ANY company caught with ILLEGAL's working for them. Fine base starts at $100,000 PER ILLEGAL. 30 days to comply. NO EXCEPTIONS
2) No valid SS number and proof of legal residence- No welfare benefits PERIOD.
Illegals will RUN back to the border.
04-03-2006, 03:36 PM
#155
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Originally Posted by ScionDad
Sending ILLEGAL's back is not a problem. A very simple 2 step solution.
1) Fine ANY company caught with ILLEGAL's working for them. Fine base starts at $100,000 PER ILLEGAL. 30 days to comply. NO EXCEPTIONS
2) No valid SS number and proof of legal residence- No welfare benefits PERIOD.
Illegals will RUN back to the border.
1) Fine ANY company caught with ILLEGAL's working for them. Fine base starts at $100,000 PER ILLEGAL. 30 days to comply. NO EXCEPTIONS
2) No valid SS number and proof of legal residence- No welfare benefits PERIOD.
Illegals will RUN back to the border.
They would hide and then protest in the amongst a huge crowd.
Then you would touch them and start a revolution!
04-03-2006, 03:50 PM
#156
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Originally Posted by InjentC23
Originally Posted by Scott17
You neglected to say if he came legally or illegaly.
04-03-2006, 04:30 PM
#157
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Originally Posted by vegasdriver
Originally Posted by ScionDad
Sending ILLEGAL's back is not a problem. A very simple 2 step solution.
1) Fine ANY company caught with ILLEGAL's working for them. Fine base starts at $100,000 PER ILLEGAL. 30 days to comply. NO EXCEPTIONS
2) No valid SS number and proof of legal residence- No welfare benefits PERIOD.
Illegals will RUN back to the border.
1) Fine ANY company caught with ILLEGAL's working for them. Fine base starts at $100,000 PER ILLEGAL. 30 days to comply. NO EXCEPTIONS
2) No valid SS number and proof of legal residence- No welfare benefits PERIOD.
Illegals will RUN back to the border.
They would hide and then protest in the amongst a huge crowd.
Then you would touch them and start a revolution!
As for the "revolution" thought....I assure you if this is not controlled and corrected, the "revolution" will be from the other side tired of the takeover of our country by illegals.
04-03-2006, 04:54 PM
#158
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Sign me up!
04-03-2006, 05:23 PM
#159
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Originally Posted by Scott17
Sign me up!
04-03-2006, 08:33 PM
#160
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Originally Posted by ScionDad
Sending ILLEGAL's back is not a problem. A very simple 2 step solution.
1) Fine ANY company caught with ILLEGAL's working for them. Fine base starts at $100,000 PER ILLEGAL. 30 days to comply. NO EXCEPTIONS
2) No valid SS number and proof of legal residence- No welfare benefits PERIOD.
Illegals will RUN back to the border.
1) Fine ANY company caught with ILLEGAL's working for them. Fine base starts at $100,000 PER ILLEGAL. 30 days to comply. NO EXCEPTIONS
2) No valid SS number and proof of legal residence- No welfare benefits PERIOD.
Illegals will RUN back to the border.