Kefferj

you are right when you say that we are we are wasting peoples time and tax payers dollars while here.. I totally agree.. What our military needs is a new plan.. I could not tell you what exactly needs to be done but for now we are keeping them "busy".. I believe that we need to detroy there will to fight... and just so everyone knows that we are not only killing and dropping bombs.. we are helping the iraqi people ge there feet back under them... The looks on there faces and having them welcome you into there homes you know that we are still doing great things.

And as far as afghanistan goes look how bad things are going there now after we left. There is alot of changes but we do NOT need to leave those countries..

Trust me when I say that the miltary does not give away all known secrets.(duh) We are making progress and to leave would severely set us back.

By the way office space is probaly the best movie of all time.

CDogbert

I do agree that leaving would be a bad thing, but really, how much worse could it be than what we're doing now, which is "keeping them busy" by just expending lives on both sides? I keep hearing "we're making progress" and that "things are getting better," but they aren't. Any genuine progress we make just gets blown up, and the rest is just spin designed to make us not completely depressed about the whole situation. All the talk and fanfare about the new Iraqi government, the deposition of the Taliban, "Mission Accomplished"... what has it gotten us!? We've been hearing about "progress" and "things getting better" for years now; where is it? And I don't want to hear anything about "secrets that are keeping us safe". You can't tell the American public that they're safe because of what you're doing, but you aren't going to tell them why.

We're not keeping the terrorists busy. Not only are we just giving the terrorists that are still alive more reasons to want to blow us up, but we're making new terrorists with how much of a hash we're making things, and they're just plotting to blow us up in places that aren't Iraq or Afghanistan.

And I would hope we're genuinely helping the Iraqi people get their feet back under them, since we're the ones that destroyed their floor.

CarbonXe

iTrader: (1)

So, who here was laughing last night at Palin's pathetic attempt at making a speech?

IntegreS_350

^ lol while I was not too impressed with the speech, my dad stated that he is now highly considering voting McCain because of Palin's speech =/

CarbonXe

iTrader: (1)

She was preaching about how she has a retarded kid and how great of a family she has. It was all one big joke.

She did do a good job at shoving a lie down everyones throats about Obama's tax plans. Typical move to use fear to gain votes.

I still want to know why that one person got escorted out.

vettereddie

The speech was funny, the Daily Show was funnier.

The opening segment was pure gold. It was film clips of Rove, Guilianni, Fox news talking heads, etc. all deriding Obama for various circumstances, then praising Palin for the EXACT SAME circumstances. The last clip was footage of Palin saying Hillary should man up and stop whining about sexist attacks, oh the irony was delicious.

John Stewart then had Newt Gingrich on. The Bristol pregnancy thing came up, and John brought up probably the most poingant point I've heard from it. Paraphrasing, he said that the Palin's stated it was Bristol's choice whether or not to keep the baby, but if Sarah accomplishes her stated goal, she will remove that choice for any other woman. The look on Newt's face was priceless, I've never seen him not have anything to say before.

Do yourself a favor and watch it on Tivo, their site or torrent. I laughed almost as much as I did watching Tropic Thunder.

CarbonXe

iTrader: (1)

Wait, does that mean that Guiliani was discussing something other than 9/11?


Oh man, I didn't even think about watching the Daily Show!

I really want to meet this Palin _____ and ask her if masturbation is a form of mass murder, since she thinks abortion is murder.

vettereddie

Guess you missed my post on page 3. Ask her if women shouldn't have periods either, since it destroys an egg.

How'd you miss the Daily Show, there the Best F**king News Team Ever (their own words) and they're live at the RNC Tuesday - Friday.

I completely forgot about the report from the Minneopolis Airport bathroom about the RNC being a closeted ___ sausagefest.

It's all here:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/

CarbonXe

iTrader: (1)

I completely forgot about it. I was watching the whole thing at my friends house, and after we got sick of listening to that ____ (), we went to play guitar.

CarbonXe

iTrader: (1)

9,000 PEOPLE HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAHAHA

senseiturtle

It's pretty amazing to me what politics have become... instead of voting based on platform, policies, experience, ethics, character... we vote on charisma and showmanship.

Obama can give a great speech. He and his writers are absolutely phenomenal at rallying a crowd. He spends millions on set designs. His conventions are attended by oscar-winning actors and grammy-winning musicians. He is a Columbia and Harvard graduate, and made over 3 million dollars last year. He's got a snazzy little version of the presidential seal. He's got overwhelming support in the mass media... causing people to get little tingling feelings running up their legs when they hear him speak. He's got an army of followers who are willing to destroy his opponents (particularly their character, not on issues) at whatever cost. He was even successful at bringing down one of the most established policital familes headed by one of the most revered democratic presidents of the last century.

Wow... quite an accomplishment, eh? Did I mention he's half black? Even better.

Yet, I keep looking for substance. For REAL solutions. I read a speech of his, and sure the word "change" sounds nice, but what exactly does he plan to do? How does he plan to go about it? Who are the kind of people that will end up in his cabinet, on the Federal benches, in the Supreme Court? These are questions that need to be addressed!

Jeremiah Wright? Tony Rezko? Members of extremist, government-bombing radial groups that are on par with the unibomber? Sorry, that's not my bag.

--------------
On Healthcare... We've got a large number of people without health insurance. The 47
million people figure represents 15.6% percent of the US population. Who are these people, and why don't they have insurance? Well, there are 15million illegals (est.), and the fact they dont have it is justified. There's a large number of college students and young professionals that feel they don't need it. So already, we've got at least some that don't deserve it, nor have shown they don't want it... in addition to the needy.

His solution? Expand medicare/aid, a bankrupt government-funded program which already costs YOU 3% of your paycheck already, under the promise of maybe receiving benefits down the line. So right there, no matter what, your taxes will increase to cover people who need help, yet, also cover people who refuse to help themselves, or are here illegally.

--------------
On Oil / Drilling.

He's against opening up any new drilling, only relenting under heavy pressure from the public. He pushes huge government subsides for alternative fuels, while increasing taxes on the most heavily taxed industry in the country. Alternative fuels (or at least, fuel sources that are "alternative" presently), are the wave of the future. But, as of right now, they aren't ready! So he wants to dump a bunch of money, and
just wait for results? While I'm paying at the pump? No thanks.

Oil companies make about 3-5 cents per gallon. Nothing's changed about that in over 40 years. The government(s) make about 50-60 cents per gallon in direct end-user taxes, then turn around and tax the revenues earned by the oil guys... so much so, that Exxon ALONE paid 50% of ALL taxes paid by ALL American entities last year. The government also charges billions of dollars in regulatory fees on nearly every aspect of the infrastructure. If he wanted to immediately lower the price of gasoline, he'd repeal the federal taxes on it. He'd make excise state taxes on gasoline sales illegal. Right there, it'd drop a guaranteed 50-60 cents per gallon. Sound good? ... oh wait, that's McCain's idea... which, he disapproves of.

The solution is "all of the above." Increase supply by drilling and building refineries. Lower demand, by switching to fuels that are ready, and work (natural gas, for example). All the while, redirect money from failing government programs to invest in future potential sources.
-----------------

Of course... I could go on... but for the sake of keeping this forum-worthy, I'll stop just after those two issues. I'd be happy to discuss others in more detail.

In short, whenever Barak Obama does get around to voting something other than "present," I think he's just plain wrong. That's why I'm voting AGAINST him. Do I like McCain? No, not really. Do I like Sarah Palin? Yup.

But as Limbaugh said... This election is not about who's got the better ideas... it's essentially boiled down to an up or down vote on Obama. I don't buy his bull____.

CDogbert

Isn't this what the President is about? Being the middle-man between us and the decision makers? Telling us what's going on? Sure, they can posture as figure-heads and say they've got ideas and plans and stances, but anyone with a functioning brain knows that aside from the veto power (which is overridable anyway), the President doesn't have much say in the political process.

You are entirely right about everything after that quoted paragraph. And you know what? I think it's great. His fresh new ideas to the whole "public figure" approach is simply astounding. He can connect with damn near anyone, and that gets his foot in the door of a lot of people's minds. That's when he goes "now, here are my ideas..." How is it his fault that people just blindly follow him after they start paying attention to him? It's not like he's pumping out mind-control messages to everyone; he's just making a big, flashy, attractive noise so that people pay attention to what he's talking about. Don't get me wrong, I hate the almost Ron Paul-like fervor that people are taking towards the Obama campaign... but it's not like he isn't getting solid messages across in his flashy campaign. I mean, you just cited two of his positions, and I assume you know many more of them... right? How did you find them out?

As far as I know, the likes of Jeremiah Wright and Tony Rezko aren't part of his plan. Wright shot himself in his political face, and his ties with Tony Rezko were loose at the very best. His Vice President is Joe Biden. His Attorney General is probably going to be John Edwards. I'm actually going to dig into his voting record when I get some more time, and see if I can't make some predictions about his cabinet. But judging from who he's disassociated himself with, and who he's aligned with so far, I'm pretty confident that I'm not going to disagree with very many of his choices for office. And I like that. McCain aligning himself with someone who approves of contraception but at the same time wants to have abstinence-only education in schools, among other ridiculous issues that I vehemantly disagree with? No thanks.

I disagree with some of Obama's positions. His Medicare position namely, to a degree. I'm like to think I'm not drinking the Obama kool-aid, even though I've been supportive of him holding some sort of high political office ever since I heard him on "Wait, Wait... Don't Tell Me!" three years ago. As I said before, I disagree with Obama/Biden on some things, but I disagree with McCain/Palin on more things. Also, don't quote Rush Limbaugh; I think you make a lot of intelligent points without referenceing that hatemonger.

CarbonXe

iTrader: (1)

In one of McCain's ads, it states, The tax cut is a well known misrepresentation and the renewable energy statement is basically a lie. McCain hasn't shown any specific details about renewable energy. He's only shown support for Coal and Nuclear, neither of which are renewable. Drilling off shore will do nothing but prolong the life of the internal combustion engine, and prolong the dependency on oil.

Obama on the other hand, supports and has specifics for renewable energy. He plans on spending $150 billion over the next 10 years for alternative and renewable energy.

The only thing I'm seeing from the Republican side, is blatant bull____. They're doing nothing but taking apart Obama's speeches and turning them against him. Take this one for example; They're saying that Obama is calling Iran tiny and not a threat, when in reality Obama said Obama has clearly stated that the danger from Iran is real and his goal will be to eliminate them.

Another attack below the belt attack was regarding Obama's birth. Seriously? Are they THAT desperate?

This stuff goes both ways, and you're completely wrong if you think Palin isn't like them. She's as hypocritical as everyone else. In the end of it all though, me and you have absolutely zero say in what happens.

senseiturtle

And where does he plan on getting that money? Same place he plans on getting the money for socialized healthcare? No.. it comes from tax increases.

Remember that it was Jimmy Carter's massive tax increases, and increased restrictions, on oil companies that drove them to stop American oil production and move towards importation. It WAS far cheaper to import than to bear the ridiculous tax burden and fight the enviro-nuts lawsuits. But, had those changes not happened, then we wouldn't need our 20% share from the middle east.

Here's an article on that windfall profits tax by the Boston Globe::
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...rofits_no_oil/

I want you to note --- Under Jimmy Carter's Windfall Profits tax, domestic oil production was CUT by over 795 million barrels. Congress estimated collecting $393 billion, but the actual take was $80 billion. Combine this with all the new spending, the deficit surged to new levels.

Do Democrats really think another dose of Carter's policies are going to work? Sorry, Obama does not represent change.

----------------------------------------
As much as I disagree with Obama, I don't think he's a moron. Terrorism is our #1 enemy, followed by states that support it. Communism USED to be our #1, and thanks due to the actions of the Russians and their threats, they may retake that title. Cuba cannot possibly pose a threat to the US, unless supported by Russia. Venezuela does have some power in the oil markets, yet, Hugo Chavez is doing all this posturing to drum up anti-American support. He might end up sponsoring state terrorism, but he'll have a hard time without the religious and/or communist backing.

As far as taking statements out of context, twisting them around, etc... I have one thing to say... "Politics as usual." -- Just note that Obama has done, and will continue to do, exactly the same thing. Paraphrased examples-- "McCain wants to stay in Iraq forever", etc. etc.

Finding and releasing Sarah Palin's social security number is ok then? That's what Obama supporters did. Politics as usual.

Oh yes... it does.

vettereddie

Wow, I'm saying the EXACT same thing about McCain, and ESPECIALLY of Palin. I doin't hear word one about anything on healthcare, the economy, or foriegn policy in here speech. She did make it pretty clear though about drill, drill, drill. That's great and all, but doesn't do a bit of good when we haven't had a new refinery in 30 years. All it will do is allow oil companies to sell oil from OUR taxpayer lands to other countries for refinement over there.

At this point I can not stand Palin, I need three things in a candidate:

1) My wife has MS, I need funding for stem cell research. Why does the damn religious nuts tie this to abortion? Peoples health and lives are being destroyed for a flawed set of ideals. Even Nancy Reagan supports it.
2) Increased support in the sciences. Palin is in favor of dictating creationism in school. Anyone who believes the fairytale of the earth being created in 7 days and can't explain the presence of dinosaurs I don't want anywhere near my school system. How about cheaper college education while were at it, Asia is royally killing us there. We can no longer compete as a manufacturing economy, we must move to a knowledge-based one if we are to prosper.
3) A knowledge of foriegn policy. Palin doesn't even know what the duties of the VP are, much less how to negotiate an international treaty. Part of that is oratory skill and the ability to reach out to people, something I'm confident Obama can do.

For the record, being a POW for 5 years (not taking an early release is a very noble thing, but not exactly the smartest, makes me wonder about his decision process), crashing 5 Navy aircraft, graduating 849 of 899 from the Naval Academy, and singing Bomb, Bomb Iran do not seem to make good foriegn policy experience. I want the guy who says where the bombs will fall to use the pen first and the pointy stick last.

I don't have a party I like, why cand I find one with the following:
fiscal conservative, pro-choice, pro-gun, pro-___, pro-healthcare, pro-mariajuana (it can be taxable!) anti-free trade, and for the love of God stop funding Isreal, they have enough without our support and it is a MAJOR reason most of the Mid-East hates us. There F-16 is even better than ours. I fully recognize Isreal's right to exist, but they need to stop putting their civilians on the front lines and then complain when they become casualties.

Go here, read up on all the candidates, and make up your own mind. Everything there is taken directly from voting records and candidate quotes. Tune out CNN and Fox News.
http://www.ontheissues.org

There mission statement is:
Their site is donation funded and is NOT tax deductable.

Palin's section on Foriegn policy:
Palin's section on Immigration:
Palin's section on Welfare and Poverty:
Palin's section on the war:
What are the qualifications for VP again?

CarbonXe

iTrader: (1)

And McCain represents change how? Last time I checked, he plans on continuing Bush's plans and he agrees with 90% of Bush's policies. Also, if you're going to ask where Obama plans to get money for things, you need to ask where McCain plans to get money to continue funding the War in Iraq, and where he plans on getting the money to support coal and nuclear power as alternative fuels.


I still find the whole Palin thing funny. She's preaching to American women about family and crap, when she can't even run her own. She supports sending her two sons over to Iraq, a war in which her political party supports continuing. Her teenage daughter got knocked up, and she supports it, yet shes a Jesus freak. She also gave her daughter the choice to do what she (the daughter) wanted to do about the baby. And now that she has a child with down-syndrome, she's preaching to all the ones with handicapped relatives, and basically begging for their vote. She's worse than McCain and Obama combined.

CDogbert

But she is hotter than Obama's running mate.

Boxer_Rebellion

Interesting debate on here... I personally think CDogbert should run for president.

Palin's speech scared the hell out of me. Her crude partisan one-liners are the kind of thing that low-information voters latch onto, completely disregarding the facts on candidates' records and policy platforms.

And speaking of masterbating, i'm sure that's what all the Fox News blowhards were doing at about 10:35 last night....

saddlesore

I was impressed with the forthwith honesty of the lady. she ain't perfect but at least I got the impression of someone who's had true work experience and has made the hard decisions in management situations. totally the opposite of "the silver tongued one"
I feel the "O'slamma Bamma has a big hat and no cattle.

CDogbert

The forthwith honesty to... do what, exactly? Tell us one of her kids got knocked up? Whoop de doo. Did she tell you that, when asked about her plans for Iraq, she said "there is a plan, and that plan is God's plan"? Or how about how she wants to teach creationism in public schools? How about supporting the constitutional ban on ___ marriage in Alaska, but "having ___ friends and not wishing to judge ___ people"? Or, again, how she supports contraceptive usage but wants to teach abstinence-only education in school? I'd be impressed with her honesty to say all of that on public TV. You know, stuff I actually care about.

And WAIT, did you just say that Palin has more experience than Obama? Obama has been the Junior Senator from Illinois for about three years now. Granted, that's not a lot of experience compared to Biden or McCain... but Palin has been the Governor of a state with more Bison than people for a year and a half. Please, please tell me you didn't just say Palin has more experience than Obama.