seattledave

good lord, this just shows your ignorance of hardware. Alienware is just another dell-type company, but instead of farming out the cheapest parts, they do get the best and that's does exactly what I do, go out shop for the best parts, puts it all together then put it in a case. Alienware is a plastic case manufacturer and they provide customer support. The only difference between what I do and what they do, is they charge 2x just to put it together for you. Have you not ever built your own machine before? It's on par with putting together lego sets. A motherboard's manual is all you need.

This has to come from a mac only user or someone who doesn't play games.
Only the best games are reserved for pc. Ever heard of Kings/Space quest. Half life, first person shooters, sims, simcity, rts's, mmos... Few good innovative games are console only. Games are a reason to get a great pc, and usually the only time you'll ever trully test your machine's capabilities.

it is getting better for the mac side yes, but still you have a higher markup than even a dell for the same exact intel chip. Mac's are now only about the OS. you used to be able to say "better hardware" because you couldn't go out and buy motorola chips and put together a machine, but now that's over. As soon as you can buy the mac os for pcs, macs will be over because the hardware is soo overpriced.

crap pc companies, i bet. Again. companies like HP don't make computers, they buy all the cheapest parts from whereever they can find, have some kid in asia put it together and into their metal and plastic case with the HP logo on it.

ok, besides software, how have you upgraded your Mac?

you built? out of what parts? or did you just install the software?

please copy and paste my lies.

are you separating software and hardware in this argument? I really don't understand what you're refering to POS car with motor. Do you mean a computer case as your car and the actual hardware as your motor?

The Mac OS is great if you're working on a Mac network. and don't play games as soon as they're first released. but the trade off is, you have to buy overpriced hardware to run it. Your car comparisons don't make much sense, especially now that everything but the OS is the same.

SciontCya

Dave, you need to stop. You're in over your head.
Go back to making new avatars.
Seriously.

seattledave

what a great debator you are. seriously, why post if you can't respond?

you've called me a liar a few times, so please copy and paste my lies.

SciontCya

Lies:

1) Alienware is just another dell-type company

2) crap pc companies, i bet. Again. companies like HP don't make computers

3) I realise Mac people aren't into hardware, because well, they can't be. ever upgrade your video card? cpu? ram even?

4) and if you're on a pc network, like every company is, the latency is rediculous compared.

That took two mins and is the tip of the "Dave's Deluded Iceberg™"ride here on ScionLife.

Ba-bye

Skeorx13

I love how heated these debates always get.
Most of this comes down to where you get the system, who it is assembled by, who manufactures the parts, what software is installed and/or available, Operating System, relative pricings of each of these, relative ease of learning curve, date of purchase, skill and experience of the user, among probably hundreds of other factors.

I've never been a fan of apple products (although the ipod is nice, not perfect since it has many quirks too, but it is nice). I don't like the interface and the OS (at least the ones I've used, which is not many) are counterintuitive to me. I'm not a fan of windoze or M$ either as they too overcharge for pretty much everything they make. WinXP is at least fairly simple and user friendly but it far too erratic and lacks fine tuning abilities for the end user. Linux to me, however difficult or time consuming it may seem at first, is merely geared around the fact that I have just dipped into it. Slowly as my experience grows I have noticed that fine tuning it is factors above the rest of the OS's out. And once you set the system how you like it, it stays there. When it's working, it stays working. Unlike windoze that sometimes just decides to upchuck on you for no apparent reason.

Oh and for mac users that say they never get popups, I suppose you've never tried to go to a **** site...

seattledave

1) How is Alienware different than Dell, except the way they market themselves and volume? Alienware doesn't make computers, like HP or Dell they put together parts made by companies like ASUS, Intel, Nvidia and place them in cases they've made. Alienware frequently overclocks. but what else do they do?
Please explain how I've lied and/or explain how alienware is not what I've just described.

2) answered in 1, HP "puts together" computers, but they don't "make" computers. Intel makes chips, asus makes motherboards and video cards, etc... I guess I was too vague? Make = manufacturer in my mind.

3) I've not met anyone who's done more than add a hd to a mac. as a mac guru, you should know you can't put in a new cpu, and you can't upgrade your video card, because mac drivers aren't made for them. You can add ram, but have you?

4) i've got 2 computers in front of me, a dual motorola g5 and a 1ghz/512 pc. I'm sure if you had both to test on a windows server or linux network you'd see. my network cards are both 10/100, and I can pull up explorer and see the file 2x as fast on that pc as finder can on the mac. try it and see.

Skeorx13

Uh... yeah this is a known fact. They don't manufacture anything but the cases. They buy parts and put them together. I can make an identical system with a different case for about half the price they ask. They use marketing and flashing lights to dazzle the customer to sell their product. And no they are not all top of the line quality pc's.

I can vouch for this as well as I have had both HP and Compaq. Emachines (my little brother) and Dell (half my friends) are also pretty crappy comps. Their cases are packed with 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes even 4th grade parts (based on how many times they've been resold/refurbished). The layouts of the cases are not standard and are a b1tch and a half to upgrade (I upgrade computers for nearly all my family members and friends).

Well personally any mac friend I have has never upgraded a single piece of hardware. Didn't apple for a time have a sticker on the case that basically said opening the case would void any warranty or customer support you might have on it?

well I haven't had experience with networks other than linux and windows so I can't really say anything about that.

Skeorx13

Oh and btw, alienware is owned by Dell...

seattledave

my old g3 had it on there, a sticker that you'd have to rip to open it. i don't see one anywhere on my g5 here. thanks for the back up. i thought i was going crazy.

SciontCya

OK Dave, name one computer company that makes parts and makes computers.
Pretty much every computer box-pusher buys parts - some, like Apple, have really good parts made for them, some, don't.
Alienware builds great gaming boxes. Doesn't matter who owns them.
I can open and upgrade my Mac (and do) and it won't void the warranty unless you change certain parts like processors - the SAME as on any branded computer.

You can't open the case on most pieces of hardware of any maker without voiding the warranty, so this is ridiculous.

If you like building your own boxes, have at it.
You obviously like wasting time, which again, is your choice.

seattledave

I think IBM used to, but none anymore.

yeah, i don't see a warranty voiding sticker on the new g5s. how do you upgrade your mac yourself? anything besides ram or a hd?

what does a warranty do for computers? I've had one 7 year old pc go out, and it was because of an electricial short caused by a soda pop. something no one warranties against. I've never needed a warranty for anything, and i get to pocket all that extra money.

wasting time? unless you make mil+ a year, the <1 hours it takes to build one and start installing the OS, will save you some $500+ for the entire machine, if it's a crappy dell even.
Again I get only the best parts. If my choice is a Seagate hd for $10 more than the maxtor, I buy it for the reliabitilty and quiet. Alienware or dell or whoever wouldn't do that.

nice how you resorted to name calling and belittling, and it seems you are the one who's wrong, huh? It'd be hard to guess you're supposed to be near twice my age.

b_adair87

Im gonna say mac 2 main reasons are because its great for graphic design and i have stocks in Apple

Skeorx13

For the Alienware Area-51® ALX I did a search with tigerdirect with exactly the same specs of exactly the same hardware and here's the comparison I got

1060 processor
350 ram
1080 dual graphics card
50 dual layer DVDWR
140 HD
275 mobo
200 watercooling kit
300 power supply (this is the one hardware alienware seems to manufacture aside from the case so I used a comparable one)
68 keyboard
45 mouse
-----
$3568 (tigerdirect) vs. $6049 (alienware)
so $2481 for case and labor? Even if you throw in Vista home that alienware gives for "free," this sounds like a scam to me.

If anyone wants, I can build this for you for the low low price of $5000. You'll get a $1000 discount and I get some nice new gear for my tC.

SciontCya

Dave, it's so frustrating trying to debate with you.
No names, but it's just like when I have these moments with my kids.
You've backtracked on most of your points because you're wrong.
IBM sold to China, like what, two years ago? Three?

As for changing parts, yes, RAM/HDD/Processors/Power Supplies/NICs.
What bloody else is there?
And all that is done out of warranty, sans RAM & HDDs as it does void the three-year warranties we have.

Ever see this site (of course not)
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/

Ever see the guys with Mac Mini's in their cars running on a double-din HU?
Thought not.

Get out a little more, Dave. Fresh air, UNIX, it's all good for you.

scionofPCFL

For those of us who work 12 hours a day in something completely unrelated, we aren't going to do the research to determine the best parts let alone take the time to assemble our own computer. It's great that you have the time and knowledge to do it, but for joe average consumer, it's not feasable.

You do what you're knowledgeble in. You think it's silly to pay someone to build your machine for you, I think it's silly to pay someone to invest my own money. Such is life.

If I want a pc that's comparable to a mac, I will spend more. It doesn't bother me that the RAM and storage are well short, I'm seriously not that concerned about that. Storage is cheap, and there are literally dozens of options. Macs seem to be more efficient in allocating RAM, so less is no problem. I don't worry about games because I rarely get to play them, but when I do, I typically play the older games on Xbox anyway. It's usually just to pass the time anyway, and I have no emotional involvement in the game itself.

For me, Macs are better. Spend ~$1400 to get everything I need, in a system that will be robust and usuable for 5+ years? you bet. I have no need for any of the mega high dollar Pro systems. I'm undecided on which Mac I'm going to get, but my next computer will be a Mac. I did the upgrading thing in college, and I'm so done with it.

Skeorx13

what does this have to do with anything? (not to mention the top manufacturers of desktop hardware are all american - amd, intel, seagate, western digital, etc)

Um... video cards, sound cards, PVRs, USB cards, Firewire cards, SATA cards, IDE cards, watercooling, case fans, lighting, optical drives, tape drives, media card drives, cpu fans, physics cards, shall I continue?

Hyghgynx

Macs. Steve Jobs is the man! I rarely had problems with my G4 for 5 years. Now I have a MacMini with 120GB. Great for editing videos and iTunes. Like someone stated earlier; apples and oranges. Its hard to compare the 2.

uberscionofglendale

I've been playing WoW since launch, on my G4 powerbook. I upgraded my RAM because in pvp it would slow down, now it doesn't. I bought the RAM and opened up my laptop, and installed it. I know nothing about computers.

What is so great about the new microsoft player? you can only share songs for 3 plays within 3 days. Don't get me wrong, I haven't tried it, so I really don't know. I just know that the main thing I was seeing them market was the ability to share, which the Ipod can't. But, in the small print, you can't really share like they're making it seem.

I used a windows pc for most of my life, until i got the powerbook a few years ago. I have a pc my brother built and gave to me for christmas. The windows machine crashes on me quite frequently. the apple hasn't crashed on me for the 3 or so years i've had it.

I would talk about the negatives about the dell pc i use at work, but i suspect it's the spyware that slows it down and makes it freeze, same like the dell i used at my previous job.

anyways, point of this post was i like my apple, i love the interface, i love the performance. I wouldn't say i hate windows, but i'm not a huge fan.

oh, and usually the people bashing apples, haven't used them enough to really be able to say. they're used to windows, and apples os is a little different. which, i admit, i didn't like to start with. but after about a month of use, i don't think i could go back.

seattledave

I understand, it's cuz I'm right and you're wrong. (see I can be a jerk too)

nice put-down again, refering to your children as dumb, and then comparing me to them.

gonna ask you to copy and paste, like last time, you'll be shown wrong.

10+ when they made chips, boards, and cases.

what processor to what processor did you upgrade to. You may be able to replace a same chip, but we were talking upgrade.

I was running a p1 biscuit board case w/ led screen that I cut & mounted onto the face of my glove box in my car back in 98. that's Old news.

Look, I know as guys we think we're right because we feel like it. But facts are facts, and right is right. you were wrong, and i waited til you put me down and called me a liar a few times before I even leaned towards personal attacks. Please tell me that '4' in 46 should be a '1'.

TrafficinLA

You know, PC vs Mac is similar to war of the video game consoles. Price and availability of software will dictate sales.

I used to trouble-shoot PCs and Macs (G3, G4) at a computer lab in a major university. They both crash. If left un-maintained, they both crash alot.

There are alot more people who customize their PCs (internals, not stickers and neon lights) because that was how they were advertised. Macs were advertised as user-friendly for people with no computer knowledge. So the users and stereotypes became such. This is less true nowadays.

As for my preference, I could care less about PC or Mac. I have a PC now because for my needs, a PC is indeed cheaper.