View Poll Results: PC versus MAC
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll
PC versus MAC
03-29-2007, 11:26 PM
#121
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dublin, CA
Posts: 560
It is obvious Dave you are a jack of all trades (Car enthusiast, pc builder, father, family guy, etc). So the notion of paying for a pre-built computer will never work for you. Thank you Mr 1% of the population.
If you want to truely debate this, then get your posts gathered up and make a list of pros vs. cons. Shoot, even just PC pros as you are pretty staunch at justifiying your choice. I'd be more than happy to debate. It just seems as if the entire arguement has come down to gaming. Not all computing is for gaming and not all users should be gaming (Minors playing M-rated games).
I'll even throw you a bone:
Gaming: 1 PC 0 Mac
Yet, if this can't be discussed withou the facts and all the areas of possible discussion, then it is a waste of my time.
If you want to truely debate this, then get your posts gathered up and make a list of pros vs. cons. Shoot, even just PC pros as you are pretty staunch at justifiying your choice. I'd be more than happy to debate. It just seems as if the entire arguement has come down to gaming. Not all computing is for gaming and not all users should be gaming (Minors playing M-rated games).
I'll even throw you a bone:
Gaming: 1 PC 0 Mac
Yet, if this can't be discussed withou the facts and all the areas of possible discussion, then it is a waste of my time.
03-29-2007, 11:44 PM
#122
Senior Member
Big Sky Scion
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: six-two-six
Posts: 4,120
Originally Posted by seattledave
i said, "Top end gaming card for Macs now is a nvidia 7300"
both those cards are designed for 3d animators(and I doubt either actually have drivers made to play all the new games),but the cheapest you're going to get either of those cards for in your mac is over $3k.
$3,000. i've never spent even half that on a computer, have you?
both those cards are designed for 3d animators(and I doubt either actually have drivers made to play all the new games),but the cheapest you're going to get either of those cards for in your mac is over $3k.
$3,000. i've never spent even half that on a computer, have you?
Now, you said something that was a lie. I called you on it, and you scream "price"
For you, price is the object, for me and others, it's not.
I can play some great games - and I run Boot Camp to prove so as my son likes them, and frankly, he's the envy of his friends who are 1/2 Mac, 1/2PC.
I work and do lots of things on my Macs.
Games are at the bottom of my list, but rest-assured, I can play them and play them on one fine "PC" with an Apple logo.
03-29-2007, 11:51 PM
#123
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,703
there are pros and cons of pc/mac, but i think pc pros really outweigh the cons. I got obth sitting right here on my desk if you read. I love me some dashboard. but that's about it.
cost: PC
games: PC
software(minus OS): PC
hardware: PC
pirating: PC
networking: PC
security: Mac
lack of viruses made for it: Mac
More stable OS: Mac, i guess(I don't have crashes anymore with xp, except when playing games)
OS compatibilty: Mac
I don't get viruses at home, i do at work because use outlook. please help me add to the list.
cost: PC
games: PC
software(minus OS): PC
hardware: PC
pirating: PC
networking: PC
security: Mac
lack of viruses made for it: Mac
More stable OS: Mac, i guess(I don't have crashes anymore with xp, except when playing games)
OS compatibilty: Mac
I don't get viruses at home, i do at work because use outlook. please help me add to the list.
03-29-2007, 11:52 PM
#124
Senior Member
Big Sky Scion
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: six-two-six
Posts: 4,120
Well hell Dave, why didn't you say that at the beginning - YOU WIN!!!
I give. It's like trying to make friends using a Zune...
I give. It's like trying to make friends using a Zune...
03-29-2007, 11:58 PM
#125
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NW Chicago
Posts: 988
Ok I went to the mac site briefly to check specs on some of their systems. Highest graphics card I found was the geforce 7600 gt. I have the overclocked version of this card in PCI-E and it's a good card. However, this is the mid level for pc's. The 8800 gtx makes it look like a piece of dooky. Not to mention the fact that pc's can use sli with them (although it is still buggy and doesn't increase a whole lot performance wise.). Not sure if mac's have sli capability yet. They do have core 2 duo now though. So within a year or two I have a feeling that mac will be using the same components as pc's so the argument will eventually come down to the case and the OS.
Personally I like the interchangability of my pc. (note I said my pc. Most dell, hp, compaq, and the other "reassembler" companies have ridiculously difficult layouts for upgrading/swapping parts) I'd much rather have a metal "lego block" computer than a brick of plastic. (by the way, the metal case helps channel static away from the important parts of the system. Why people make cases out of acrylic or plastic is beyond me (regardless of how pretty it may look).
Personally I like the interchangability of my pc. (note I said my pc. Most dell, hp, compaq, and the other "reassembler" companies have ridiculously difficult layouts for upgrading/swapping parts) I'd much rather have a metal "lego block" computer than a brick of plastic. (by the way, the metal case helps channel static away from the important parts of the system. Why people make cases out of acrylic or plastic is beyond me (regardless of how pretty it may look).
03-30-2007, 12:00 AM
#126
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,703
Originally Posted by SciontCya
Originally Posted by seattledave
i said, "Top end gaming card for Macs now is a nvidia 7300"
both those cards are designed for 3d animators(and I doubt either actually have drivers made to play all the new games),but the cheapest you're going to get either of those cards for in your mac is over $3k.
$3,000. i've never spent even half that on a computer, have you?
both those cards are designed for 3d animators(and I doubt either actually have drivers made to play all the new games),but the cheapest you're going to get either of those cards for in your mac is over $3k.
$3,000. i've never spent even half that on a computer, have you?
Now, you said something that was a lie. I called you on it, and you scream "price"
For you, price is the object, for me and others, it's not.
I can play some great games - and I run Boot Camp to prove so as my son likes them, and frankly, he's the envy of his friends who are 1/2 Mac, 1/2PC.
I work and do lots of things on my Macs.
Games are at the bottom of my list, but rest-assured, I can play them and play them on one fine "PC" with an Apple logo.
maybe if I had the kind of money to spend 9500 then i may go that super mac you got. But does boot camp allow for you to install a nvidia 8800 with all the newest drivers?
03-30-2007, 12:01 AM
#127
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NW Chicago
Posts: 988
Originally Posted by SciontCya
I give. It's like trying to make friends using a Zune...
Holy crap man, $9500?! I could get top of the line mobo, quad core processor, dual 8800gtx's, 8GB of ram, a terabyte of Sata II drivespace, watercool everything in the case, hook it up to a huge HD flatscreen and full 7.1 surroundsound for cheaper than that. What did you do make the case out of solid gold?
03-30-2007, 12:10 AM
#128
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dublin, CA
Posts: 560
C'mon Dave... Pirating? Are you serious? I can't acknowledge that one.
I'm going to have to give the nod to OS X on Networking. It can communicate on standard TCP/IP protocols & also the built-in self-assigning network address protocol of Bonjour.
Lets not forget Spyware. Not necessarily the same as Viruses.
Also, let's seperate out 3rd Party & Premium software from Out-of-the-box software. I have to give the nod to Apple on this. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't see as robust a Movie/DVD/Web page maker that is included with the WinXP or Vista installer.
I'm going to have to give the nod to OS X on Networking. It can communicate on standard TCP/IP protocols & also the built-in self-assigning network address protocol of Bonjour.
Lets not forget Spyware. Not necessarily the same as Viruses.
Also, let's seperate out 3rd Party & Premium software from Out-of-the-box software. I have to give the nod to Apple on this. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't see as robust a Movie/DVD/Web page maker that is included with the WinXP or Vista installer.
03-30-2007, 12:13 AM
#129
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dublin, CA
Posts: 560
Also too... what is the target of this debate? Is this your average John Doe user who has basic home needs and doesn't want to tinker with upgrades & such? Or is this a self-professed "Gamer" or "System-builder" who is in a continual upgrade loop?
03-30-2007, 12:15 AM
#130
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dublin, CA
Posts: 560
Dang, I should consolidate my posts... my bad.
Cost... two categories. Components & OS. My vote is for OS X. From Home Basic to Ultimate... $150 to $500. OS X has had each iteration of the software cost $129. All features included, nothing to unlock via purchased upgrade.
Cost... two categories. Components & OS. My vote is for OS X. From Home Basic to Ultimate... $150 to $500. OS X has had each iteration of the software cost $129. All features included, nothing to unlock via purchased upgrade.
03-30-2007, 01:44 AM
#131
Senior Member
Big Sky Scion
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: six-two-six
Posts: 4,120
2TB of 4x500GB HDDs (SATA)
2x2GB Fiber
2x7300GT NVIDIA
2x23" Cinema Displays
2xSuperDrives
8GB RAM
Software - all at steeply discounted prices. Woulda cost more otherwise.
METAL CASE.
And as for the "highest card" being the 7600GT, you're wrong.
Please, if you're going to argue, for the love of god, get your facts straight.
The Zune to me fully represents the Windows world of "me too" Microsoft copying (badly) Apple.
They even blasted Apple over the iPhone and guess what? They now announced their own copy.
Sad really. That much money and they can't design and build a good, original product to save their stock prices.
2x2GB Fiber
2x7300GT NVIDIA
2x23" Cinema Displays
2xSuperDrives
8GB RAM
Software - all at steeply discounted prices. Woulda cost more otherwise.
METAL CASE.
And as for the "highest card" being the 7600GT, you're wrong.
Please, if you're going to argue, for the love of god, get your facts straight.
The Zune to me fully represents the Windows world of "me too" Microsoft copying (badly) Apple.
They even blasted Apple over the iPhone and guess what? They now announced their own copy.
Sad really. That much money and they can't design and build a good, original product to save their stock prices.
03-30-2007, 02:47 AM
#132
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NW Chicago
Posts: 988
Originally Posted by SciontCya
2TB of 4x500GB HDDs (SATA)
2x2GB Fiber
2x7300GT NVIDIA
2x23" Cinema Displays
2xSuperDrives
8GB RAM
Software - all at steeply discounted prices. Woulda cost more otherwise.
2x2GB Fiber
2x7300GT NVIDIA
2x23" Cinema Displays
2xSuperDrives
8GB RAM
Software - all at steeply discounted prices. Woulda cost more otherwise.
And as for the "highest card" being the 7600GT, you're wrong.
Please, if you're going to argue, for the love of god, get your facts straight.
Please, if you're going to argue, for the love of god, get your facts straight.
http://www.apple.com/imac/graphics.html
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html
Graphics and video
* 17-inch model with 1.83GHz processor
o Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory
* 17-inch model with 2.0GHz processor and 20-inch model
o ATI Radeon X1600 graphics processor using PCI Express
o 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM
o Optional 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM on 20-inch model
* 24-inch model
o NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT graphics processor with 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM using PCI Express
o Optional NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT graphics processor with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM using PCI Express
* 17-inch model with 1.83GHz processor
o Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory
* 17-inch model with 2.0GHz processor and 20-inch model
o ATI Radeon X1600 graphics processor using PCI Express
o 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM
o Optional 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM on 20-inch model
* 24-inch model
o NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT graphics processor with 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM using PCI Express
o Optional NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT graphics processor with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM using PCI Express
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html
Video and graphics support
* 15-inch MacBook Pro
o ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics processor, dual-link DVI support, 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM on 2.16GHz configuration; 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM on 2.33GHz configuration
* 17-inch MacBook Pro
o ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics processor, dual -ink DVI support, 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM.
* 15-inch MacBook Pro
o ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics processor, dual-link DVI support, 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM on 2.16GHz configuration; 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM on 2.33GHz configuration
* 17-inch MacBook Pro
o ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics processor, dual -ink DVI support, 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM.
http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html
Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory
The Zune to me fully represents the Windows world of "me too" Microsoft copying (badly) Apple.
03-30-2007, 03:06 AM
#134
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NW Chicago
Posts: 988
Originally Posted by SciontCya
2TB of 4x500GB HDDs (SATA)
2x2GB Fiber
2x7300GT NVIDIA
2x23" Cinema Displays
2xSuperDrives
8GB RAM
Software - all at steeply discounted prices. Woulda cost more otherwise.
2x2GB Fiber
2x7300GT NVIDIA
2x23" Cinema Displays
2xSuperDrives
8GB RAM
Software - all at steeply discounted prices. Woulda cost more otherwise.
$180 (2x 7300 gt)
1000 per cinema screen?! you can get a 42" plasma HDTV for that price...
superdrive is just a multipurpose DVDRW/CDRW. you can get a dual layer DVDRW/CDRW for $50 tops.
$1500 approximately for 8GB of the highest DDR2 on the market.
$400 for 2x2GB fiber optic cables (75') (if this is what you meant...)
I'll have to finish this later, gotta punch out at work...
03-30-2007, 03:10 AM
#135
Senior Member
Scion Justice League of America
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,594
OK.... Let's really do this....
Average User (~85%) - Not Tinkerer/Builder (<15%)
[table:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Category[mcol:d832b40bd6]PC[mcol:d832b40bd6]MAC[mrow:d832b40bd6]Gaming[mcol:d832b40bd6]
[mcol:d832b40bd6].[mrow:d832b40bd6]Cost[mcol:d832b40bd6][mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mrow:d832b40bd6]Software (Out Of Box)[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6]
[mrow:d832b40bd6]Software Stability[mcol:d832b40bd6].[mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Mass Usability[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Upgradable Hardware[mcol:d832b40bd6][mcol:d832b40bd6].[mrow:d832b40bd6]Networking[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Printer/Drive Sharing Ease[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Security[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]OS Features[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]OS Compatibility[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Innovation[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Design/Looks[mcol:d832b40bd6] .[mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Spyware/Virus Resistance[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Software Install/Removal ease[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Computer Setup and Maintenence[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][/table:d832b40bd6]
Hmmm..... I can show each of them for sure as well.
Average User (~85%) - Not Tinkerer/Builder (<15%)
[table:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Category[mcol:d832b40bd6]PC[mcol:d832b40bd6]MAC[mrow:d832b40bd6]Gaming[mcol:d832b40bd6]
[mcol:d832b40bd6].[mrow:d832b40bd6]Cost[mcol:d832b40bd6][mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mrow:d832b40bd6]Software (Out Of Box)[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Software Stability[mcol:d832b40bd6].[mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Mass Usability[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Upgradable Hardware[mcol:d832b40bd6][mcol:d832b40bd6].[mrow:d832b40bd6]Networking[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Printer/Drive Sharing Ease[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Security[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]OS Features[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]OS Compatibility[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Innovation[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Design/Looks[mcol:d832b40bd6] .[mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Spyware/Virus Resistance[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Software Install/Removal ease[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][mrow:d832b40bd6]Computer Setup and Maintenence[mcol:d832b40bd6]. [mcol:d832b40bd6][/table:d832b40bd6]Hmmm..... I can show each of them for sure as well.
03-30-2007, 05:29 AM
#136
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dublin, CA
Posts: 560
Very nice chart. Love Uncle Bill pic!
03-30-2007, 07:19 AM
#137
Senior Member
Scion Justice League of America
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,594
Thanks.... Did it on my MAC!
03-30-2007, 03:09 PM
#138
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NW Chicago
Posts: 988
You might want to change the chart a bit however. There are far more OS's than "Mac" and "PC." Not to mention Bill Gates only runs one company, not all operating systems for PC's. I'll give you networking&security only because OS X uses Unix. But so do more PC servers as well as Linux (which is on PC's). So you might want to refine a bit there. For software you might want to add a section for Available software on the shelf (which if you go into any best buy, circuit city, microcenter, compusa, or other computer/electronics store you can easily see that PC's win this category). Design and looks are subjective to each individual, so that should be left out. Innovation is also subjective. I'm curious what your criteria were for this section. Also, what do you mean by OS compatibility? And which OS features exactly put Mac ahead of PC's? Spyware and Virus resistance are also based on OS. Linux has just as few as OS X, while Windows is a nightmare...
I haven't had sharing experience with Macs as I've never even seen a Mac on an open (read: home) network before. Windows is easy as hell for sharing drives though. Just one right click and two left clicks and you're all set. Linux is a bit of a pain for file sharing but is far more secure. Printer sharing is a nightmare on anything I've used so far ($hit, printers in general are a major pain in the ___) so I'll give you that one no prob.
I'd say the rest looks good though.
I haven't had sharing experience with Macs as I've never even seen a Mac on an open (read: home) network before. Windows is easy as hell for sharing drives though. Just one right click and two left clicks and you're all set. Linux is a bit of a pain for file sharing but is far more secure. Printer sharing is a nightmare on anything I've used so far ($hit, printers in general are a major pain in the ___) so I'll give you that one no prob.
I'd say the rest looks good though.
03-30-2007, 03:15 PM
#139
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Redneck Riveria
Posts: 2,409
Innovation is also subjective. I'm curious what your criteria were for this section.
03-30-2007, 03:19 PM
#140
Senior Member
Big Sky Scion
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: six-two-six
Posts: 4,120
Innovation is subjective?
Wow.
And yes, Apple bought the interface for the first Macs/Lisa form Xerox/PARC.
I think Billy bought DOS form MIT, but I don't remember as DOS/Windows interests me little.
Wow.
And yes, Apple bought the interface for the first Macs/Lisa form Xerox/PARC.
I think Billy bought DOS form MIT, but I don't remember as DOS/Windows interests me little.