vegasdriver

Christianity to me is the "alpha and the omega"
The beginning and the end.
Now, a major religion came after Christianity that tried to improve on something that was all inclusive. Hard to top it, if not impossible. Thus, it is here that Islam runs into conflict with Christianity.
That is not to say that Christianity is better than Islam, but only to point out the initial conflict.

Magnus213

iTrader: (1)

"All-inclusive"? Inclusive of what? They're both religion, they both have major holes and ambiguities that lead to the conflicts and disagreements we face today. It's not a competition as to who designed the better religion, or which came first.

vegasdriver

Alpha through Omega includes everything.
Again its the beginning and the end.
These words explain everything in between and all in total

web

That's fine for your opinion, but you're generalizing too much. No one religion is the "alpha and omega" other than the one that each person believes in. I hear where you're coming from and you seem quite devoted to Christianity, but I hope you don't get offended when others say their religion is the "alpha and omega," b/c you would be a hipocrit.

Just remember, religion is the political aspect of faith. Faith is the pure aspect of ones soul. Religion corrupts, faith heals.

UV7

Question: By demanding an apology from the Pope for quoting another's statement, and based on the threats by other factions of Islam, aren't they just offering validity to the quote at hand? This is ridiculousness at its most elemental level.
"How dare you say our religion or prophet incites violence! For this outrage you must pay dearly! We will crash planes into your buildings and murder innocent people by blowing ourselves up unless you appologize and publicly admit this statement is entirely false!"
Am I the only one who finds this mentality retarded?!?

SSH_Motorsport

^^^^ Why give the extremist radicals justification for their actions? They already claim to be led by God, but why incite more violence. To kill a cliche used by many of our mothers, two wrongs, wont make this right. Realize, by not retracting and correcting this, they see more validity in their actions. This has to stop being about pride and about more sparing lives, and avoiding, (in worse case scenario) another war. Remember: In wars over land and freedom, someone usually wins. In religious wars, NO ONE EVER wins.

web

^^Agreed.

vegasdriver

ALL religions have corruption and fundamentalists.
I am not of them.
"alpha and omega" is a quote from the bible.
It summerizes what Christianity is about. Birth and rebirth

web

Yes, I know that is directed for Christian faiths. I am simply trying to say:

The reason "religion" has corruption is due to the fact that "religion" is driven my money and politics. The faith of the individuals is what holds purity and true love and devotion for one's God.

That's what I've come to see in 23 years of being around different religions. I'm Catholic and my gf was Mormon. She is nondenominational now, but still has Christian faith. She moved away b/c of the overbearing needs for that "religion" to spread. It's not the faith that is mentioned as much as the Church. You don't need a church to have faith.

Stigmata said it perfectly:

SSH_Motorsport

Perfectly put....

web

This may be off topic a bit...........


Using that quote we can also look back in retrospect when we were kids. Our parents told us to look inside ourselves to find our true potential, not at everyone else around us.

UV7

The radicals' intention is to create a world that is entirely islam, either by conversion or by eradication. There is no such thing as tolerance. The responses to the Pope's quote are a perfect example of a lack of tolerance. Do you honestly believe that this conflict is entirely avoidable given the radical lack of tolerance toward fellow men? How is a radical response to a quote made by an opposing religious leader justified? A continual retreat is a senseless attempt at avoiding the inevitable, is it not?

SSH_Motorsport

Ok, Here's the deal. If your home is on fire, do you run and throw gas on it or do you try to put it out. Any sensible person would try to extinguish the blaze. Hence my point, dont add fuel to a fire that is already burning with much rage. Yes, they have the "ideal" where they want to convert the world to islam, but so did the kings in the crusades, and look at us now. The world goes through these transitions. We defend ourselves as needed, but we dont provoke. I have many friends who are muslim, and denounce all of these acts. Realize that only the ones that cause violence and death are put on television. Not the millions of people of islamic faith, of which some are more peaceful than us. So, to generalize is insane. Again, we dont need another holy war....the Crusades killed an innumerous amount of people and lasted for years..and that was with swords, catapult, and short range warfare. Now we have guns, missles, and nukes. Lets not relive the Crusades on a nuclear level, because thats all another war would lead to. A possible nuclear holacaust.

UV7

By no means am I forming a generalization basing all muslims as terrorist radicals. It amazes me how many times I hear the "I have many friends who are muslims..." line as though the rest of us are not blessed with the same diversity of culture. Your knowledge of those around you does not pertain to the situation at hand.
To further view your "house on fire" analogy, do you not attempt to stop the fire from destroying your whole house, or do you just let it burn until it consumes everything?

web

You control the burn and salvage as much as possible.

SSH_Motorsport

Never did I once say that no one esle has the been privy to this diversity. And about my analogy. It does say, do you throw gas on it, (therefore fueling the fire) or do you extinguish it ( which means to put it out). So, i dont understand the basis your your comment, because I was saying, you should put out the fire, not fuel it.

ddsboi

Not all Muslims are violent. Most Muslims don't justify any act of Violence on Civillian Targets. For example, the Murder of that Nun was horrible. That is not justified.

I'll tell you this though, Practically every Muslim Justifies violence against Military personell who are opressing or killing other Muslims. Examples Such as what is going on in Iraq and Lebanon. We have the right to defend ourselves . . . it's just when Civillians start getting hurt where It frustrates me.

Oh I'm Muslim by the way.

web

That is what is known as "Casualties of War." Sad how leaders are willing to have that happen to their own people for whatever reasons.

UV7

By allowing radicals' threats to force us to do anything, we are allowing them a foothold and giving them far too much attention. By ignoring ridiculous threats and responding to terrorist actions with force, we are displaying our will, that we will NOT allow another to dictate our way of life. This is the basis of all that America was built upon. You are free to your opinion just as I am allowed mine. Allowing these sorts of threats to dictate any sort of response, either for or against, is showing these radicals that we ARE paying attention to them and that we ARE allowing them some sort of ground, that they ARE capable of controlling our decisions.
Web's post to the "burning house" analogy is dead-on. You control what you can and salvage as much as possible, but you do NOT allow the fire to run wild. If you do, not only will you lose your house, but very quickly, the fire will spread beyond just your house. It will consume your neighbors', and then his neighbors', and so on, until someone stops the blaze. If you allow the blaze a foothold, it can and will consume EVERYTHING.
This situation is no different than dealing with a young child's temper tantrum. Offer no form of attention and the tantrum will cease. The child will learn quickly that a tantrum will get them nowhere. When the child does something wrong during such a tantrum, you punish them. The child will learn that you will NOT tolerate misbehavior and that a tantrum is pointless.
By bending to the child's every whim at the onslaught of a tantrum, you show the child that this sort of behavior works, and it will continue to get worse.
Simply put, would you allow me to dictate your beliefs by threat, simply because I do not agree with you? By no means.

CaJuN_tC_2007

Cant we all just get along? I say we spike there water supply with Acid and let them run wild!