web

Well put. We always have to be careful and mindful of these threats (let's not go into 9-11) and we must always be ready. This does not mean to live our lives in fear, but yet in respect towards others. Respect is a certain type of fear, but not one that we run from or avoid. You respect your elders b/c you don't want to be a disappointment to their teachings. You fear their disappointment in you. Kind of the same thing here. If we respect the fact that other religious factions have their own beliefs and what not, as long as we respect them, things can remain under control for everyone.

UV7

This is not just a trait born entirely muslim, but a trait of all men. No man would willingly stand idle and just watch their bretheren die. To see innocent people killed, no matter what nationality, race, or religion, is bothersome and frustrating to us all.
Since you stepped in, what are your opinions on these matters, such as Iran, Lebanon, Iraq, local terrorism, stupid quotes uttered by the current Pope, etc., if you don't mind me asking? I am interested to see things from others' perspectives.

SSH_Motorsport

You perception of my comments are completely skewed. The whole point of this, is that the pope made a comment generalizing islam as a whole. Therefore, regardless ot how radicals react, he needed to some damage control because this isnt about appeasing anyone. This is about being smart. Not causing further damage to an already delicate relationship. Again, my comments were, if your home is on fire, do you throw gas on it, or do you extinguish it. Web said you try to salvage all that you can, IE, you extinguish the fire. No one here is saying that we should bend to the terrorists demands. This is about a broader scale, than just terrorists. I would rather have a few thousand terrorist against me, than a few countries worth of muslims, who we wrongully offended. Think about it.

web

The problem with that is that saying to just extinguish the fire is almost a childish/wishful perspective. You must judge the situation before any rash decision can be made. The burning house idea, in my eyes, goes like this:

If the house is already engulfed in an unGodly amount of flames and is coming down, you save what you have closest to you. In the case of religion, your faith.

If the house has been buring for a few minutes, you delay the inevitable destruction as long as possible so that you may salvage what you can. In the case of religion, your faith and the lives of it's followers.

We all wish we could extinguish terrorist actions, blasphimous degredation of a people, and so on. What we need to understand is that we cannot save everyone from everything. Hence, you slow the burning to save what you can knowing that eventually, the burning will consume whatever is left.

web

I am not calling you or your personal views childish SSH Motorsports. Just the idea as it pertains to this event.

UV7

Thank you. I find your statements to be very truthful and sensible as well. Respect is the building block, if not the keystone of a utopian society. Bear in mind that not all respect must stem from fear. In fact, respect stemmed only from fear is often not worthy of the term, "respect." It is simply cognisance and awareness of such fear, and a willingness to avoid it. True respect stems from honor. You honor your mother and father because they are your parents, not just because you fear them or fear their disappointment.

web

^^Agree Good call.

UV7

My appologies if I seem to be misreading your posts, but I do not believe I am. I will agree that a statement was made by the Pope that was certainly not the most thought-out or planned. However, my chime into this entire thread was based more on the ridiculous responses to such a stupid statement, threatening violence against the Pope, and Catholicism in general, if the statement were not publicly retracted. Isn't this just a validation of a skewed statement made by the Pope? It would seem that there are many out there who would rather jihad about anything and everything rather than take a sensible approach and express displeasure without the need for violence.

ddsboi

Well, I am completely against What's going on in Iraq. There was no reason to attack Iraq. Saddam wasn't a Liked guy in the Middle East, so Arabs didn't care too much. Over 500,000 + Iraqis have died since the US came in. What have they accomplished? Civil War? Death of Iraqis? Death of Americans and other foreigners? It kills me to see casualites in Iraq, because it all could have been avoided. But the Iraqis have to defend themselves against the US (The US did attack Iraq out of the Blue), so they have to do whatever they can to get the US out. We, the US, don't have any business being their.

Bush had to finish Saddam for his father. Cheney wanted all the oil and military contracts. Its sad that for the Agenda of TWO men over half a million people had to die. Iraq never attacked America. If the US did it in Iraq, maybe they'll invade Iran Next? Then Syria . . . until They've got US Soldiers in every Middle Easter Country . . .


Im Lebanese , so I'm hella Bias on that issue probably . True two soldiers were Kidnapped, but that's a common thing between Israelis and Hezbollah. Thousands of Hezbollah Soldiers are currently in Israeli Prisons. Hezbollah kidnapped the Israeli Soldiers to make a deal to return their soldiers. The Soldiers know the risks during times of war. Both Sides attacked civillians, so both were at fault there.

Israel overreacted though. The amount of Lebanese civilians killed was ridiculous. Israel was just waiting for something like this.

Local terrorism only results in civillian casualites, which even scares me. When a sucide bomber blows up a building, all people are at risk, All religions and Ethnicites.


I really don't know what is going on with Iran right now, Depending on how Iran wants to use the Nuclear energy. I will admit Iranians are on the extreme side of Islam. Lebanon, where I'm from are the most moderate of all Muslims. If Iran does make Nuclear Weapons, I don't think they'll ever use it for no particular reason. But like I said, Iran is an extremist country and if sht hits the fan between Iran and Israel or America, Its a possibility that they will use the weapons . . .

web

That is all we need. In such a rage against one another, they will not realize that launching 1 nuclear bomb will give other nations with grudges, a sneaky ability to launch theirs and so on. N. Korea is just waiting for a situation to erupt to give them a chance to lauch to the U.S. If all of this happens, and nuclear bombs are launched world wide, it will lead to a nuclear winter and the end of all mankind for centuries to come.

An estimate of world wide nuclear explosion has estimated an average winter temperature of 20 degrees below zero for at least 2000 years. This is an extreme scenario to what may be happening, but this is still a possibility.

The offended feelings of one does not justify the destruction of mankind. Things need to be sorted out without war, which is a very liberal view and may seem unrealistic in times like these. The only thing we have to see is that it is the most realistic view that will ensure the long term survival of mankind.

UV7

It doesn't appear to me that you are biased about Israel/Lebanon in any way. I do believe this situation was escalated rather quickly, but do not believe Lebanon was directly responsible for the involvement. If I am not mistaken, isn't Hezbollah the primary force behind Iran's military? That being the case, then it would seem Iran had more of a direct involvement in that conflict than Lebanon. Lebanon, unfortunately, was the pathway used, hence, action from Israel.
As far as Iran and its nuclear arsenal/power reactor issues, much of the data collected over the years seems to show Iran is looking for nuclear energy for weaopons purposes, not power supply. They have been offered enriched elements by other countries, but seem adamant about wanting the capability to enrich their own plutonium. This, to me, seems to point toward a nuclear weopons program.
What trouble would this spell for Israel? Hezbollah has openly vowed to remove Israel from the map, and if Hezbollah is the driving force of Iran's military, a nuclear program would certainly be something for Israel to be concerned about, as well as the rest of the planet. Iran with nukes seems to me to resemble a child with his dad's gun... ...a danger to itself and everyone around it.
As for Iraq... well, I don't really want to get into that one. I just hope that the US being there could bring about some sort of good. ...perhaps even help to create a successful and rich society similar to that of UAE? One can only hope.

tC4italy

I am half Iranian. It all has changed after the revolution. It was not like this 30 years ago it was one of the most mentally forward looking countries. I will not go into details about this since the revolution brought a lot of distress to my grandparents. One thing I will say. If the USA (or any other country for that matter) decides to go to war with Iran. Expect a hella lot more casualties. It had one of the strongest armies in the past.

UV7

My biggest concern with such a thing is not necessarily the strength of the armies of Iran, but moreso the possibility of WMDs such as nukes or CW. Iran was the most forward-thinking country in the ME prior to the revolution, but unfortunately, radical beliefs from the stone age took hold and the beliefs that modernday technology is the temptation of evil has put Iran where it is today, near the bottom, struggling to obtain control of the ME.
As for the strength of Iran's armed forces, the same statement was made about Iraq's ground military during the Gulf War. Most of those troops surrendered with minimal conflict.

tC4italy

My grandfather was one of the 3 generals in the army before the revolution. I do not state things when I am not sure about them. And Iranians did not like Arabs for a valid reason....and that can be seen today.

UV7

I meant no insult to you or to Iran's armed forces. Only that the US technology is often too much for others to handle. Technology is what makes the US military such a strong force throughout the world.

tC4italy

Oh I know that. No hard feelings. I just said that expect to loose many more soldiers. But hopefully it will not get that far.

ddsboi

Yea America isn't going to attack Iran, well not anytime soon. All their forces are tied up in Iraq as well. Iran has at least 6,000 Missles that have a 6,000 KM range, which can easily reach Israel.

They have a decent amount of fighter planes and Tanks. Also, Iran is supported by Radical Muslims around the world, which is going to set off a chain reaction of Terrorist attack Globally.

Magnus213

iTrader: (1)

Times like this make me really, really wish that the atomic bomb had never been conceived. How different the situation in Iran (and also N. Korea) would be!

It's really astounding to think of the destructive power of those things; it's like having a laser when everyone else is firing guns.

ddsboi

Well the US used it first . . . seems like people tend to forget that. Seems OK for the US to use it on civillians or something . . .

tC4italy

ddsboi - I don't think Magnum meant it that way
He meant the atomic bomb in general