Spanish at school translates to suspension
12-09-2005, 03:40 PM
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Spanish at school translates to suspension
"Controversy caused by Kansas City incident reflects national debate"
Link= http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10372148
KANSAS CITY, Kan. - Most of the time, 16-year-old Zach Rubio converses in clear, unaccented American teen-speak, a form of English in which the three most common words are "like," "whatever" and "totally." But Zach is also fluent in his dad's native language, Spanish -- and that's what got him suspended from school.
"It was, like, totally not in the classroom," the high school junior said, recalling the infraction. "We were in the, like, hall or whatever, on restroom break. This kid I know, he's like, 'Me prestas un dolar?' ['Will you lend me a dollar?'] Well, he asked in Spanish; it just seemed natural to answer that way. So I'm like, 'No problema.' "
But that conversation turned out to be a big problem for the staff at the Endeavor Alternative School, a small public high school in an ethnically mixed blue-collar neighborhood. A teacher who overheard the two boys sent Zach to the office, where Principal Jennifer Watts ordered him to call his father and leave the school.
Watts, whom students describe as a disciplinarian, said she can't discuss the case. But in a written "discipline referral" explaining her decision to suspend Zach for 1 1/2 days, she noted: "This is not the first time we have [asked] Zach and others to not speak Spanish at school."
Since then, the suspension of Zach Rubio has become the talk of the town in both English and Spanish newspapers and radio shows. The school district has officially rescinded his punishment and said that speaking a foreign language is not grounds for suspension. Meanwhile, the Rubio family has retained a lawyer, who says a civil rights lawsuit may be in the offing.
National debate
The tension here surrounding that brief exchange in a high school hall reflects a broader national debate over the language Americans should speak amid a wave of Hispanic immigration.
The National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy group, says that 20 percent of the U.S. school-age population is Latino. For half of those Latino students, the native language is Spanish.
Conflicts are bursting out nationwide over bilingual education, "English-only" laws, Spanish-language publications and advertising, and other linguistic collisions. Language concerns have been a key aspect of the growing political movement to reduce immigration.
There's a lot of backlash against the increasing Hispanic population," said D.C. school board member Victor A. Reinoso. "We've seen some of it in the D.C. schools. You see it in some cities, where people complain that their tax money shouldn't be used to print public notices in Spanish. And there have been cases where schools want to ban foreign languages."
Some advocates of an English-only policy in U.S. schools say that it is particularly important for students from immigrant families to use the nation's dominant language.
California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) made that point this summer when he vetoed a bill authorizing various academic subjects to be tested in Spanish in the state's public schools. "As an immigrant," the Austrian-born governor said, "I know the importance of mastering English as quickly and as comprehensively as possible."
Hispanic groups generally agree with that, but they emphasize the value of a multilingual citizenry. "A fully bilingual young man like Zach Rubio should be considered an asset to the community," said Janet Murguia, national president of La Raza.
Broad influence
The influx of immigrants has reached every corner of the country -- even here in Kansas City, which is about as far as a U.S. town can be from a border. Along Southwest Boulevard, a main street through some of the older neighborhoods, there are blocks where almost every shop and restaurant has signs written in Spanish.
"Most people, they don't care where you're from," said Zach's father, Lorenzo Rubio, a native of Veracruz, Mexico, who has lived in Kansas City for a quarter-century. "But sometimes, when they hear my accent, I get this, sort of, 'Why don't you go back home?' "
Rubio, a U.S. citizen, credits U.S. immigration law for his decision to fight his son's suspension.
"You can't just walk in and become a citizen," he said. "They make you take this government test. I studied for that test, and I learned that in America, they can't punish you unless you violate a written policy."
Rubio said he remembered that lesson on Nov. 28, when he received a call from Endeavor Alternative saying his son had been suspended.
"So I went to the principal and said, 'My son, he's not suspended for fighting, right? He's not suspended for disrespecting anyone. He's suspended for speaking Spanish in the hall?' So I asked her to show me the written policy about that. But they didn't have" one.
Rubio then called the superintendent of the Turner Unified School District, which operates the school. The district immediately rescinded Zach's suspension, local media reported. The superintendent did not respond to several requests to comment for this article.
Since then, the issue of speaking Spanish in the hall has not been raised at the school, Zach said. "I know it would be, like, disruptive if I answered in Spanish in the classroom. I totally don't do that. But outside of class now, the teachers are like, 'Whatever.' "
For Zach's father, and for the Hispanic organizations that have expressed concern, the suspension is not a closed case. "Obviously they've violated his civil rights," said Chuck Chionuma, a lawyer in Kansas City, Mo., who is representing the Rubio family. "We're studying what form of legal redress will correct the situation."
Said Rubio: "I'm mainly doing this for other Mexican families, where the legal status is kind of shaky and they are afraid to speak up. Punished for speaking Spanish? Somebody has to stand up and say: This is wrong."
With that said I would like to get the INTELLECTUAL views from here on the board. Me personally I speak 1 1/2 languages (my spanish is bad.) I am a frim believer that if you are going to live in America that you need at least learn English. The more lanaguages you know the more power to you! But as long as you learn the primary language for the country you are living in then you are fine. With that said I call B.S. on that school, this goes to show how much racisim is still in america. Its bloody sad! That a young gets suspended for speaking a language and didnt even say anything bad.
Please share your thoughts! Tomas your comments and thoughts on this subject would be awesome to hear!
Link= http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10372148
KANSAS CITY, Kan. - Most of the time, 16-year-old Zach Rubio converses in clear, unaccented American teen-speak, a form of English in which the three most common words are "like," "whatever" and "totally." But Zach is also fluent in his dad's native language, Spanish -- and that's what got him suspended from school.
"It was, like, totally not in the classroom," the high school junior said, recalling the infraction. "We were in the, like, hall or whatever, on restroom break. This kid I know, he's like, 'Me prestas un dolar?' ['Will you lend me a dollar?'] Well, he asked in Spanish; it just seemed natural to answer that way. So I'm like, 'No problema.' "
But that conversation turned out to be a big problem for the staff at the Endeavor Alternative School, a small public high school in an ethnically mixed blue-collar neighborhood. A teacher who overheard the two boys sent Zach to the office, where Principal Jennifer Watts ordered him to call his father and leave the school.
Watts, whom students describe as a disciplinarian, said she can't discuss the case. But in a written "discipline referral" explaining her decision to suspend Zach for 1 1/2 days, she noted: "This is not the first time we have [asked] Zach and others to not speak Spanish at school."
Since then, the suspension of Zach Rubio has become the talk of the town in both English and Spanish newspapers and radio shows. The school district has officially rescinded his punishment and said that speaking a foreign language is not grounds for suspension. Meanwhile, the Rubio family has retained a lawyer, who says a civil rights lawsuit may be in the offing.
National debate
The tension here surrounding that brief exchange in a high school hall reflects a broader national debate over the language Americans should speak amid a wave of Hispanic immigration.
The National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy group, says that 20 percent of the U.S. school-age population is Latino. For half of those Latino students, the native language is Spanish.
Conflicts are bursting out nationwide over bilingual education, "English-only" laws, Spanish-language publications and advertising, and other linguistic collisions. Language concerns have been a key aspect of the growing political movement to reduce immigration.
There's a lot of backlash against the increasing Hispanic population," said D.C. school board member Victor A. Reinoso. "We've seen some of it in the D.C. schools. You see it in some cities, where people complain that their tax money shouldn't be used to print public notices in Spanish. And there have been cases where schools want to ban foreign languages."
Some advocates of an English-only policy in U.S. schools say that it is particularly important for students from immigrant families to use the nation's dominant language.
California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) made that point this summer when he vetoed a bill authorizing various academic subjects to be tested in Spanish in the state's public schools. "As an immigrant," the Austrian-born governor said, "I know the importance of mastering English as quickly and as comprehensively as possible."
Hispanic groups generally agree with that, but they emphasize the value of a multilingual citizenry. "A fully bilingual young man like Zach Rubio should be considered an asset to the community," said Janet Murguia, national president of La Raza.
Broad influence
The influx of immigrants has reached every corner of the country -- even here in Kansas City, which is about as far as a U.S. town can be from a border. Along Southwest Boulevard, a main street through some of the older neighborhoods, there are blocks where almost every shop and restaurant has signs written in Spanish.
"Most people, they don't care where you're from," said Zach's father, Lorenzo Rubio, a native of Veracruz, Mexico, who has lived in Kansas City for a quarter-century. "But sometimes, when they hear my accent, I get this, sort of, 'Why don't you go back home?' "
Rubio, a U.S. citizen, credits U.S. immigration law for his decision to fight his son's suspension.
"You can't just walk in and become a citizen," he said. "They make you take this government test. I studied for that test, and I learned that in America, they can't punish you unless you violate a written policy."
Rubio said he remembered that lesson on Nov. 28, when he received a call from Endeavor Alternative saying his son had been suspended.
"So I went to the principal and said, 'My son, he's not suspended for fighting, right? He's not suspended for disrespecting anyone. He's suspended for speaking Spanish in the hall?' So I asked her to show me the written policy about that. But they didn't have" one.
Rubio then called the superintendent of the Turner Unified School District, which operates the school. The district immediately rescinded Zach's suspension, local media reported. The superintendent did not respond to several requests to comment for this article.
Since then, the issue of speaking Spanish in the hall has not been raised at the school, Zach said. "I know it would be, like, disruptive if I answered in Spanish in the classroom. I totally don't do that. But outside of class now, the teachers are like, 'Whatever.' "
For Zach's father, and for the Hispanic organizations that have expressed concern, the suspension is not a closed case. "Obviously they've violated his civil rights," said Chuck Chionuma, a lawyer in Kansas City, Mo., who is representing the Rubio family. "We're studying what form of legal redress will correct the situation."
Said Rubio: "I'm mainly doing this for other Mexican families, where the legal status is kind of shaky and they are afraid to speak up. Punished for speaking Spanish? Somebody has to stand up and say: This is wrong."
With that said I would like to get the INTELLECTUAL views from here on the board. Me personally I speak 1 1/2 languages (my spanish is bad.) I am a frim believer that if you are going to live in America that you need at least learn English. The more lanaguages you know the more power to you! But as long as you learn the primary language for the country you are living in then you are fine. With that said I call B.S. on that school, this goes to show how much racisim is still in america. Its bloody sad! That a young gets suspended for speaking a language and didnt even say anything bad.
Please share your thoughts! Tomas your comments and thoughts on this subject would be awesome to hear!
12-09-2005, 04:07 PM
#2
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Scikotics
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I think that its messed up that they would do anything like that. here in oklahoma and i though pretty much everywhere else students are required to take a foreign language. i know that at my school we had lots of different nationalities and different languages being spoken. anybody that knew another language would talk with others that spoke the same. if its going to be required to take the classes dont you think that they have every right to speak it. i mean dont get me wrong i dont know any other languages and sometimes i wonder what people are saying but i dont worry that much about it.
12-09-2005, 04:18 PM
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I could care less if they want to speak spanish but learn english.
Where I live they are not forced to learn english and they get special treatment to go through grades and graduate without learning and thats bull.
Where I live they are not forced to learn english and they get special treatment to go through grades and graduate without learning and thats bull.
12-09-2005, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Placebo
I could care less if they want to speak spanish but learn english.
Where I live they are not forced to learn english and they get special treatment to go through grades and graduate without learning and thats bull.
Where I live they are not forced to learn english and they get special treatment to go through grades and graduate without learning and thats bull.
12-09-2005, 04:32 PM
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^^ ha..
well when teachers said to speak english and not spanish i always said.
me-" this is america "
teahcer - exactly
me- so you agree, the land of freedom of speech.
after that they stayed shut for a while.
so basically a we may have an advantage to speaking 2 or more languages where as the "others" only know one language and it seems that thats how the USA is.
Most of the other countries teach 2 or more languages.
yei yeii
well when teachers said to speak english and not spanish i always said.
me-" this is america "
teahcer - exactly
me- so you agree, the land of freedom of speech.
after that they stayed shut for a while.
so basically a we may have an advantage to speaking 2 or more languages where as the "others" only know one language and it seems that thats how the USA is.
Most of the other countries teach 2 or more languages.
yei yeii
12-09-2005, 04:43 PM
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Good read! My high-school was 70% hispanic and I never had a problem, hell, I practically learned spanish after 4 years!
Sure, I can see where it could be disruptive to english speaking students if everyone in class, or even the teacher was speaking spanish, but this was two kids in the hall!! That's ridiculous!
I guarantee that principal is fired before the next school year.
-THE DON
Sure, I can see where it could be disruptive to english speaking students if everyone in class, or even the teacher was speaking spanish, but this was two kids in the hall!! That's ridiculous!
I guarantee that principal is fired before the next school year.
-THE DON
12-09-2005, 05:09 PM
#8
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Back when i was in High school the Problem was with the Chinese speaking students .Not nessasarily the langauge is the teachers thought that they would cheat during exams so the would seperate the students .Yes i believe it was in someways racist. but i believe that people have the right of speaking in thier Native langauge and shouldn't be Suspended from school.
In fact I Encourage my own Children to speak both English and Spanish which is thier Mother's Native langauge .
It is Getting ridiculas the way we are facing things these day's Starting with Christmas Songs ,Cards and The Plegde of Alligance i could go on but it would be taking this off topic . We are a Nation of Different Cultures we should respect that .
In fact I Encourage my own Children to speak both English and Spanish which is thier Mother's Native langauge .
It is Getting ridiculas the way we are facing things these day's Starting with Christmas Songs ,Cards and The Plegde of Alligance i could go on but it would be taking this off topic . We are a Nation of Different Cultures we should respect that .
12-09-2005, 06:03 PM
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I think being able to speak 2 (or more) languages is a huge asset in today's economy. We have 2 salespeople here who speak fluent Spanish, and because there is a big Latino population in this area, they have a big advantage in that they are the only two people in the building that can sell them a car.
The downside, however, is that the people that come in and only speak spanish bring about a bit of resentment. The old "if you come to this country, you should learn how to speak English" line. I admit that I agree with this opinion. I can communicate pretty effectively in Spanish (I took 4 years of Spanish class, and have hung out around a lot of my Spanish-speaking friends' families) but if I was going to move to, say, France, I would learn how to at least communicate in French instead of being the stereotypical "American in Europe" getting frusterated that "nobody speaks English in this *darn* country."
The fact that so many Governmental agencies, restaurants, magazines, public places, etc. Cater to Spanish-only-speaking people seems to frustrate a lot of people, I think in large part because it condones the fact that so many people come to this country and never bother to learn to speak English (and this includes all kinds of people, not just Spanish-speaking ones). To clarify, I have absolutely no problem with anyone who speaks Spanish, as long as they speak English too. And thinking about it logically, if someone is coming to this country and plans to become a legal citizen (illegals are a whole different story), then the test they must take to become a legal citizen is, if I am not mistaken, in English; so being about to speak, read, and comprehend the English language, would make that test a lot easier.
I think the school that suspended the poor kid for speaking Spanish outside of a classroom is appalling. If he was doing it in class, I could understand, because it would be distuptive, but he was just talking to a fellow student. I'm about as white as they get, and even I used to talk to other students in Spanish (poorly I admit, but still) in the hall all the time. I can only speculate on why that administration has such a problem with Spanish-speaking students, but I would think it has somthing to do with the whole "he's Latino so he must be 1) A gangbanger, 2) A drug dealer, or 3) a gosh darn drug dealing gang banger" stereotype, which, I might add is rediculous.
To sum it all up: What happened to that kid was the result of a mix of racism and stupidity. On the topic in general, speaking a differant language (or many) is an asset, as long as you speak the language of the country you live in (although if that's true, technically we should all be speaking Native American but again, that's a whole differant topic
).
The downside, however, is that the people that come in and only speak spanish bring about a bit of resentment. The old "if you come to this country, you should learn how to speak English" line. I admit that I agree with this opinion. I can communicate pretty effectively in Spanish (I took 4 years of Spanish class, and have hung out around a lot of my Spanish-speaking friends' families) but if I was going to move to, say, France, I would learn how to at least communicate in French instead of being the stereotypical "American in Europe" getting frusterated that "nobody speaks English in this *darn* country."
The fact that so many Governmental agencies, restaurants, magazines, public places, etc. Cater to Spanish-only-speaking people seems to frustrate a lot of people, I think in large part because it condones the fact that so many people come to this country and never bother to learn to speak English (and this includes all kinds of people, not just Spanish-speaking ones). To clarify, I have absolutely no problem with anyone who speaks Spanish, as long as they speak English too. And thinking about it logically, if someone is coming to this country and plans to become a legal citizen (illegals are a whole different story), then the test they must take to become a legal citizen is, if I am not mistaken, in English; so being about to speak, read, and comprehend the English language, would make that test a lot easier.
I think the school that suspended the poor kid for speaking Spanish outside of a classroom is appalling. If he was doing it in class, I could understand, because it would be distuptive, but he was just talking to a fellow student. I'm about as white as they get, and even I used to talk to other students in Spanish (poorly I admit, but still) in the hall all the time. I can only speculate on why that administration has such a problem with Spanish-speaking students, but I would think it has somthing to do with the whole "he's Latino so he must be 1) A gangbanger, 2) A drug dealer, or 3) a gosh darn drug dealing gang banger" stereotype, which, I might add is rediculous.
To sum it all up: What happened to that kid was the result of a mix of racism and stupidity. On the topic in general, speaking a differant language (or many) is an asset, as long as you speak the language of the country you live in (although if that's true, technically we should all be speaking Native American but again, that's a whole differant topic
).
12-09-2005, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by peteyd
^^^ exactly you speak more then one language more power to you I HOPE you get paid more then the AVG person.
Bienvenido a FUJIZ
Bienvenue au FUJIZ
GIN DOBRE -- FUJIZ
Kamustaka - FUJIZ
it pays off to know alot of languages and parts of a another language besides just the bad words.
12-09-2005, 06:39 PM
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We actually had a similar discussion here in my office recently. My coworker is Chinese and a secretary who is also Chinese will sometimes speak to him in Chinese but if there are other people around, he will only answer her in English. I am told it is poor etiquette to speak in the native tongue in front of others who don't speak the same language. Makes people uncomfortable and wonder if they are saying something they don't want you to hear. My friend speaks mostly Chinese when talking with his parents and his grandmother doesn't speak any English at all, so he has to adapt to the situation at hand. I feel awkward when I go to lunch with them. It's usually DimSum so everyone can communicate there but me...
Sounds like the school overreacted, IMO. Great to see the father working within the system to correct things and hold them to policy, but they need to drop the lawsuit cuz that just costs tax dollars and hurts more than it'll help the situation.
Sounds like the school overreacted, IMO. Great to see the father working within the system to correct things and hold them to policy, but they need to drop the lawsuit cuz that just costs tax dollars and hurts more than it'll help the situation.
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