seattledave

Who cares? This was also the first time 2 black coaches went to the super bowl. and the first time a black coach lost. To give any special notice to this, is just fueling more fire to racists.

Historical event? where?

Histroy books contain what, inventors, first time a person does something of significant importance(recent profession sports is not one of them, sorry football fans), border changes, wars, you know, things of world changing significance. Most inventions were made by europeans, americans and asians, why? Because they were the most technologically advanced people. Theres no preferencial treatment to race here. You invent something important or pave the way for something we do today, we make note and you get credit. And even when your "invention" or "contribution to the evolution of man" is not that signifcant, and you are a minority, sometimes then we'll throw you in there to make the whiners happy(who didn't learn about george washington carver in elementary school? what about the guy who invented processed sugar? whale oil? or any other food related invention? come on...)

First person to do something regardless of race is something to note. Maybe even the first woman to rule a islamist country and tear down their ignorant laws about degrading women.

But, to stop and make a note that "OMG, did you know that astronaut was 1/8 cherokee and 1/3 african, that's a HUGE achievement, move over Yuri Gagarin, we have a REAL hero because they're part of a minority group."

tC4italy

- blonds are retards.
- gays wave their hands too much
- females are inferior to male
- smokers don't work

And now countries:

- italians only speak through hand gestures, eat pasta and play the mandolin
- germans are direct/strict and organized
- swiss are punctual and have no charachters
- frech people are arrogant and have nasal voices and are effeminate
- british people have fugly teeth and bad hygene
- spanish people dance flamenco all day long
- easter europeans are gypsies
- moroccans sell carpets in Italy
- iranians are arabs - OH HELL NO
- hispanics are sleezy
- indians have a heavy accent
- russians are blonde with blue eyes

seattledave

my #1
I'll use math to describe a fun stereotype.

over half of black males are criminals that warrant jail time.
read on:
since NOW OVER 1 in 5 black males will spend time in prison, not some holding cell or quick detainment, but pound in the ___ prison.

and since we all probably can agree at least half of all criminals aren't caught(don't think i've met a soul who'd asy otherwise).

just using that math, 5-1 = 4/5 black males that don't goto prison, but if 2 of those 4 guys don't get caught, 3 out of 5 deserve prison time, sometime in their lifetime.

that's right wow.

#2
At my second job, i had a little 18 year old asian co-worker make fun of me putting on a led zepplin cd, saying how all rock sounds the same. I said, "well what kind of music do you listen to? no wait, let me guess. You're asian, 5'5", 100 lbs. grew up in an affluent suburb, you listen to some 'hardcore' gangsta rap, no?"
But I did not even have to guess.

BigMURR

^^ haha soo true about the black calc. its simple math yet people don't even want to admit it. I guess everyone is just scared of being called racist, but is it racism if it's true (statistically)?

Jenna

You've missed my point by miles, seattledave.

Who cares? Obviously not you or some other whites but to a black person, whom doesn't have a lot of their people representing them in history, it is. And by history, I don't mean the history books... you don't need to point out that Football has no place in it.

Yes. Of course, it's probably a tad bit more difficult to make the history books when you've not been allowed schooling or when people just won't recognize you as a person in the first place.

But not the point. As people who have been seriously oppressed, having a "first black to..." is a damn important thing. Just the fact that racism has been demolished enough to where they have an opportunity to be a football coach is noteworthy.

So if we have ourselves our first black president... THAT is not noteworthy? I mean, he wouldn't be the first president, right?

I'm now pressed for time and can't proofread or clarify what I'm saying.

seattledave

o, no, I totally understand where you're coming from. Believe me, I'm a democrat, I live where you live, I listen to NPR for 2-3 hours a day. I know how us white people up here, almost totally removed from real racism like in the south, think and act when it comes to racism and how we're "trying" to stop it, by constantly pointing out how not racist we are because we go out of our way to act like we're promoting minorities.

You want us as a nation(and you as a white person) to say "Look at us, we're REALLY not racist. Just look at what we did, we pointed out a black coach in the nfl won the superbowl."

So are you saying, it's not black people's fault for not being schooled, but for no earned reason, they still deserve a place in our history books next to people who ruled countries, who invented electricity, light, the phone, automobiles, etc... and black's greatest contributor (besides mlk of course) is... George Washington Carver (who did squat really, but i know he was in my history books in public school, as was yours http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_Carver)

Ok, why is having a "first black to..." really important to you, to the US or to anyone? Is it because we are trying to show the rest of the world how great and diverse we are? (NEWS FLASH: everyone hates us for totally different reasons, pretending like it's a big deal still makes us look stupid)

and when do you think "first black to..." won't be important to make notice? When racism is over? When they've accomplished everything a white guy has? When, really? Or do you think black deserve special recognition til the end of time? If not, when? If the reason is when they're given the same opprotunities as whites, then I'll point out twice as many white kids who were poorer, and accomplished more.

Even "First American to..." doesn't mean squat. It's "First person in the world to..." right? Most people don't even know who Alan Shepard is, but Neil Armstrong? I'd say even more americans know Yuri Gagarin's name before Alan Shepard's. But

It shouldn't be, but it will be very news worthy. But "What if" this Black first president, had not one ancestor who was a slave, who's family came here right before he was born and he was a prince frmo an oil rich country and him and his ancestors were all very rich and educated. Would that be a huge deal, a great change in our society?

jsa3mm

seattledave

Sorry, but alot of that is heresay just rewritten, continuing the cycle of stupidiy. Provide Names and invention. I can start naming the people that actually invented some of those things, and they're not black. I read that article and attributing Egyptian inventions as "black" inventions, instead of "arab" inventions is pretty stupid. Just because they lived on the african continent doesn't mean squat, there were and are lots of arab nomads on the african continent. Does that change them into "black".

I think it's true ignorance to automatically make someone black if they're from africa.
Ok, trick question:
Who's the first African American actress to win an Oscar for a leading role?
Someone born and raised in Ohio(halle berry) or someone born and raised in south africa(charlize theron)?

jsa3mm

You see this article just proves that black isn't the color of someone's skin...it's a state of mind!

Jenna

It's not about me proving to you or anybody needing to prove to anybody that they're not racist. What I am saying is that it's not "fuel on the fire" for racism by bringing up the fact.

Put it this way... it was a big deal when the first black baseball player was allowed to play. Was he the first baseball player? No. But it was a big deal, and very noteworthy. Every baseball team has retired his number, 42. Is that wrong?

No, I'm not saying that. Not at all.

No. Why do you keep thinking that the reason anybody does such a thing or thinks this way is in it for show?

Why does anybody care? I care that not just little white children have heros. I care that nobody feels as though they can't do stuff because of the color of their skin. I care that we've made progress in this country. I care that my racist grandmother has the success of a black man all shoved up in her face because it really goes against everything she thinks a black person is.

If anything, I strongly disagree that simply pointing out that a black coach won the Super Bowl to be a bad thing. Blacks weren't allowed to coach back in the day and it's nice to see a them doing so and doing so successfully.

I don't know. But does that mean we should never start?

It shouldn't be? Yes, you're right, it shouldn't be. Unfortunately we had the whole slavery/oppression thing so it really is. It is a big thing in the world of acceptance. It is a big thing in the world of positive role models.

Have you see that little YouTube where the high school teenager put a black baby doll and a white baby doll in a room with a little kid? The black children always picked the white doll. They don't pick the little dolly that looks like them. Why? A lot of people feel it's because blacks/minorities are lacking in roll models of their own color. Is that important, I think so. I think it is for them and I think it is for everybody.

FTR, I don't know if my thoughts on any of this is the common one or not. Maybe the reasons on why things like Black History Month are different than what I think they are. Maybe the reasons why number 42 was retired from baseball are different from what I think?

seattledave

I think it is, but I think you're assuming blacks are not the ones being racist. We need to get to a point where we don't bring up race ever, for any reason, cuz really it doesn't matter. Some people will take that as "you're pretending racism isn't going on then". No, I'm aware of it, and when racism does happen, lets deal with it.

Like when someone makes mention of a team and mentions they have a black coach. For no reason. His "blackness" didn't change anything, didn't impact the actual game in anyway, but people had to bring up "LOOK HE'S BLACK". That's racist.

He played in a time when people didn't even think blacks where capable of playing baseball. When they weren't treated like humans. Is that the same as being a football coach today? Is it close? The NFL has a racist rule out there already in effect, where anytime they are hiring a new head coach, they HAVE TO interview a black guy for the position, just so that they've "made the effort not to exclude anyone" (even though there are less mexican coaches and much more of them in america).

No, I'm not saying that. Not at all.

I'm failing to see the logic of why a white person would care. I still think it is somewhat for show, because things like pointing out black coaches seems to not do anything.

The fact that you and so many other people even notice in today's age is what sucks. I wasn't even aware that he was the first. We're an integrated society,

It's been started, like 50+ years ago. I know you're kidding, right? Ever since me and you were kids, we've heard about race, integration, and hassn't stopped to this day. Seriously though, I posed the question "when do you think "first black to..." won't be important to make notice?"

I'm asking not because I'm tired of it(as i am), but because i want to know when some of the people that are for pointing it out at every chance will stop.

Why is it important to have black children specifically look upto other blacks as role models? Why can't they have mexican or white role models? I'm sure you remember how many white kids looked up to michael jordan as a role model growing up in the 80s. And it was a positive influence. Or is that different because those white kids had a choice between having a white role model and a black role model? It's not that there aren't black role models, it's that most blacks don't want to look up to POSITIVE black role models (i.e. rap stars & today's sports stars). They need to be taught to not accept the gangster lifestyle as a viable one. Again, there are more white kids growing up poorer with less available education than blacks, so what excuse is there?

Saying blacks need black role models, because they can't be expected to see another person of another race as one, sorta sounds racist, huh?

bcnu_702

Let me just explain one thing. Racism is just as prevelant in the blue states as they are in the red. The same problems exist in all states. Second, by continuing to use race as a factor in ANYTHING, including successes, it fuels racism by putting RACE at the forefront. If race is not an issue in bad things, why should it be on in good things? We all talk about one race HUMAN RACE, but why does black this, white that, all this bullcrap have to be brought up. Why can't we just say, two great coaches made it who had not made it before, and the better coach won. Case closed!!!

Jenna

Well, I'm telling you that in my case, it isn't. I really believe the things I'm saying and certainly don't need to prove anything to this message board.

I agree that it's wrong but it's not racist.


Perhaps it's Seattle but I tell you, there are plenty of people out there that still would never hire a black man. People that still view them as inferior and such. More so than other races. It's a big problem... not so much now as it was then, but still a problem.

Maybe you didn't notice or know or don't care because neither being black or a football fan is near and dear to you? Being the first black coach to win the Super Bowl is important to the black coach and to many other black people and others.

When I was a kid, I remember distinctly seeing my first black person come out of the Lynnwood Fred Meyers store. I remember distinctly my grandmother talking about "______s". I remember not knowing any black adult whom could prove to me otherwise of what nasty things my family would say about them.

So why do you care then? Do you feel that the many blacks who disagree with you are wrong and that you, as someone not put in the position (I assume you're white) of being discriminated against like they have, are the one who is in the know and is correct?

They should have people of all colors to look up to as role models. And WOW with the underlined part. Lets add that stereotype to the original topic of this post.

Well, I never said the part that follows "because" in the above statement. And if I did, it's certainly is no comparison to "most blacks don't want to look up to positive role models".

seattledave

you make some good points below, but being raised in texas and now living up in washington state, that's faaaar from true. Texas (ok, -minus Austin) is a very separist/racist place. In texas there are black neighborhoods, and mexican neighborhoods, shoot whole towns, where you don't want to be the wrong color. A place like Vidor, Texas would never exist up here.

agree 100%

Jenna

Same thing if Obama becomes our next president? It's fueling racism if we bring up that he's the first black president? Should black people not express out loud that they are proud to have finally a black person become president?

This easily transfers over to sexes, right? We woman ought not be proud or say outloud that we were proud to have a female astronaut? If Hilary Clinton wins the presidency, we ought to keep our mouthes closed?

Now, I agree that pointing out so and so was black/hispanic or even white, in normal circumstances, is wrong and does "fuel" racism but in big accomplishments, I see no harm.

Now, I'm not all up to date on the Super Bowl deal but who are the primary people that have complained that it was mentioned he was the first black coach? I'd be curious to know.

seattledave

Believe I know, I grew up in texas, but even here, where i work in a place near seattle that would no-way no how hire blacks. I've heard my co-workers talk crazy ****, abuot how they had to pull their kids out of preschool, because a black 4 year old was admitted to their class. Who do I work with? Asians. Not asian-americans. Asian-asians with 20 words of english under their belt. About 25 here & 300 overseas. I'm one of 3 white americans at my company and i work here because I'm creative(something they're not, usually because of their upbringing) and as they put it, my engrish.

again, i grew up in texas. that's everyday stuff you're talking about.

As a white male, I've been in my face discriminated against. at 18, I went down to the electricans union in SoDo, and signed up. Paid my $20 exam fee and passed their pre-algebra test with 100%. I had already a year and half experience for a entry level job. I wired networks and built websites for people. I had probably the most impeccable resume they've had from an 18 year old, BUT...
I was told TO MY FACE, I wouldn't be contacted for AT LEAST a year because I am a white male, and the union is looking to diversify and the quota for white males is already filled. (I've worked lots of union and non-union jobs as an electrician over the years, I saw 1 black and 1 woman out of about 500+ electricans I've even seen at job sites).
I'm not asking you to feel sorry for me, but if a black guy went there and got a barely passing grade he'd have the job. If he was told to his face in front of many people he wasn't going to be hired on because of his color, he'd be a millionaire.


it was implied though. But fine, just ask the next young black teen you see who they look up to. It isn't a preacher, a cop, or fireman.

People will forget the hate of racism one day, when, and only when children aren't taught that nonsense from birth. That can happen tomorrow, or 100 years from now, as soon as children quit hearing about it, and continuning the cycle.

seattledave

I'm sure they would be shouting "We Won, We Won" though if he did. (but he won't, not because he's black, but because he's a muslim)

Yeah sure make a fuss, it will be a big deal. Personally I'm voting for her(althuogh in this stae, we don't even have to vote for presidents because all our electoral votes will go dem.), but I think she'll make a poor choice for president ONLY because she's a woman. (OMG did he really say that?)
How well do you think a woman would do talking to any muslim country's leader? Some won't even acknowledge her, and may refuse to even speak to her. Only because she's a woman. Not a very good choice for president on our part, especially when we're going to have to talk to these oil rich/muslim dominated countries.

no one has complained the stupid media made a big deal about his race, because they don't want to be misinterpreted as racist by fools like us.

bcnu_702

Jenna, I see nothing wrong with celebrating accomplishments, but celebrating in a seperatist fashion is not the correct way to improve anti-racist sentiment. I mean if all the talk is on HUMAN RACE, break down the racial/color/sex borders, then why does every race/sex need a first place medal? Why can't we just say, alright we are coming together as one, the HUMAN RACE is progressing better together, and congrats to the best candidate for winning. Of course, this wouldnt make headlines and news reels as much as saying the 'FIRST THIS OR FIRST THAT' now would it. Harmony, prosperity, and existing together does not make news nor does it produce ratings.

I just feel like we're keeping score of something that does not need to be kept if we all want to be one race and equal. This is NOT A COMPETITION, this should be about not keeping score, and working together to be together. Saying this first and that first is keeping score, and it brings to the forefront of accomplishment race and sex, and this versus that.

jsa3mm

The media is to blame for everything in America. The use scare tactics to control us! Wanna get laid? Buy the right toothpaste, car, underwear, cologne, and suit. (commercials) Wanna be safe? Stay away from black people. (C.O.P.S.) Smoking was O.K., but we screwed up. As the media we will bash the cigarette companies we used to get fundings from in order to look moral to the public. We have no god other than money, and we are willing to do anything we can to get it. Now do what we say!

Jenna

Seattledave, the man himself, the black coach, stated in his speech that he was proud to be the first black coach to win the Super Bowl. It's mentioned in Wikipedia, so on and so forth. This isn't the media and those you feel who are racist, saying such a thing just to pretend they aren't.

bcnu... it isn't keeping score, nor a competition. I don't think I meant or that people have celebrated this black coach more than a white one. I don't see anything wrong with anybody feeling that the United States has come a long ways in abolishing discriminations of sorts.

Again, answer me this. Should nobody feel that the U.S. has hit a milestone in overcoming racism if a black president were to be elected? If they can feel that way, are they allowed to say so or would that be celebrating in a separatist fashion?

Also, I need someone to explain to me how it is racist for I to mention that a black coach won the Super Bowl. How is it racist for a black man, even the black coach in question, to mention that a black coach won the Super Bowl.

You complained and you can keep me out of the racist generalization, thanks.