SquallLHeart

uhh.. you know that goes against the treaty that was formed during the Cold War..
where it states no nuclear weapons would be flown?

yes.. that treaty was violated with this incident... and believe me... hell will be had for what happened.

other types of nuclear items are fine... transport of such are done with plenty of paperwork which have numerous redundant procedures and paperwork...

nuclear weapons? i don't think so.. and obviously a LARGE amount of neglect played a huge part in this incident.

dangerous it might not be.. but EXTREMELY serious nonetheless... violations of treaties are very much a BIG deal.

matt_a

I'm not familiar with the wording of that treaty. Do you have a link? I'd like to read that for myself, because it does happen. Here's a little tid-bit I cut from a military website:
A Brief History of Nukes in the Air

The last time the Air Force is known to have flown nuclear weapons on a bomber was during the so-called Chrome Dome missions in the 1960s when the Air Force maintained a dozen bombers loaded with nuclear weapons in the air at any time. The program, formally known as the Airborne Alert Program, lasted between July 1961 and January 1968. The program ended abruptly on January 21, 1968, when a B-52 carrying four B28 thermonuclear bombs crashed on the ice off Thule Air Base in Greenland during an emergency landing. The accident followed another crash in Spain in 1966 and several other nuclear incidents.

Between 1968 and 1991, Air Force bombers continued to be loaded with nuclear weapons and stand alert at the end of runways on bases across the country, but flying them was not allowed due to safety concerns. The ground alert ended in September 1991 when the bombers were taken off nuclear alert as part of the first Bush administration’s Presidential Nuclear Initiative.

Although nuclear weapons are not flown on combat aircraft under normal circumstances, they are routinely flown on selected C-17 and C-130 transport aircraft, which as the Primary Nuclear Airlift Force (PNAF) are used to airlift Air Force nuclear warheads between operational bases and central service and storage facilities in the United States and in Europe.

AKAvensis

really not that big of a deal.. its not like if you drop a nuke it blows up on impact. they have to be detonated. that plane could have crashed and we would have never known it had nukes.

prove me wrong?

SquallLHeart

well.. considering i did deal with nuclear items in the military.. granted it was for power vice weaponry.. there are simple things that are stated..

the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty forbids any type of transfer of nuclear weapons.

now i guess i should be slightly more clear... transportation of nuclear items (including limited controlled items for weaponry) do happen and with the proper permissions, is allowed.

however an incident like this?.. yeah.. it is against the treaty.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/05/loo...ef=mpstoryview
at least so a retired AF Gen. states..

true, there probably wouldn't have been detonation.. but the radioactive material would still be there and would still have adverse effects to the environment.

oh.. people would know it had nukes onboard.. no doubt about that.

Skeorx13

Um, they do still put that little nuclear symbol on the warheads don't they? How do you not notice those? "Military intelligence" indeed. (shakes head) And I thought the air boys were supposed to be the smart ones of the armed forces...

matt_a

That isn't talking about transporting nukes. Did you read the information I posted above?
Although nuclear weapons are not flown on combat aircraft under normal circumstances, they are routinely flown on selected C-17 and C-130 transport aircraft, which as the Primary Nuclear Airlift Force (PNAF) are used to airlift Air Force nuclear warheads between operational bases and central service and storage facilities in the United States and in Europe.

amdforever

Don't believe all the crap they feed you in movies buddy

SquallLHeart

actually.. they are supposed to label all radioactive material and areas with the trefoil...

do they? uhmm.. shortcuts are not an uncommon sight in the military..

obviously some lazy moron was the one that decided to say f* it..

it's probably exactly what happened in this incident... some idiot signed the paperwork that said they had taken out the warheads when he assumed that they were..

and obviously didn't happen...

PikesPeak

Not making excuses, but I think this is an example of an overworked military. The most qualified person was probably taking his physical fitness test, which left a less qualified person in the duty section.

amdforever

^ possibly...I see your at the AF academy, how you liking it so far?

SquallLHeart

ehh.. i doubt it.... what a lame excuse.. the more qualified person off doing a PT test?

just admit it.. qualified.. moreso or not... people blazing through paperwork is a common occurrence.

and this was something that someone had to have done... really... there was a clear sign that no one checked the missles beforehand.

even a blind man can see that.

PikesPeak

hmm...yes the coffee can muffler is mine. I admit. But it sounds more like a turbo whine. I like the sky and snow here, but the city does a ____ poor job of repairing the roads.

While my comment may have been too dry and overly sarcastic, it's not far from the truth. AF manning cuts have reduced my duty section by 33%. Who does the additional work? Do we work longer hours (thus making mistakes); take up the slack (reduce existing effectiveness); or hire contractors at double the salary? This is truly a common occurence in today's military.

SquallLHeart

don't worry about me not knowing about manning issues...

i know fully well of the lack of qualified people.. me being one of them back then.. i sure as hell worked well over what i was "required" to do...

yeah.. i worked those extra hours.. because honestly... there are people that shouldn't be trusted to do something...
and if your chain can't figure out a person's limits.. then that's their problem...

yes.. we're human.. we make mistakes... but in the line of duty i was in. there wasn't any leeway for one.

i dealt with running nuclear power plants.
yeah.. i was a f#@%in' nuke.

at least we both agree that crap like this isn't uncommon... though some mistakes are obviously more serious than some others... and as far as reason? ehh... similarities between our opinions... but it ends up being someone's stupid fault...

and someone has to take the blame... (hmm.. that's what the officers are for anyway..)

PikesPeak

True about the 'good' officers.

BigMURR

Holy mother of God, and you know what's sad...they vote.
No wonder there was a large group of people, after the American Revolution, who thought democracy would never work because the common man was unintelligent.


you guys do realize we have "broken arrows" still unaccounted for?

Skeorx13

True. My roommate was in the AF and I've met his friends from there too... Let's just say I didn't find them to be the "articulate" type...

HeathenBrewing

Sad indeed.

matt_a

Yeah, that was pathetic, but don't let it worry you too much. That was a classic example of selective editing for the sake of humor. What they didn't show you were the hundreds of people who answered correctly (because that's not funny). By only showing the idiots, they plant the idea in our heads that eveyone on the street is a moron. Yet we all knew the answers as we watched it.

SquallLHeart

yeah.. perhaps selective in their editing for the sake of humor..

but the fact remains that those people out there do exist... and with all the coverage that they did.. it obviously doesn't display any factual statistics for the percentage of the population being that dumb...

but indeed.. does display that there are large numbers of them.

but uhh.. there is a large percentage of active duty people that possess that same IQ.

Psyco565

two directions... some watchdog leaked this to the news in order to achieve some agenda or, my favorite, a conspiracy theory! The story is really a cover up for something else and is pure fabrication.