matt_a

I like to rent cars for vacation. It's something I started doing about 6 years ago and it's awesome. I don't have to worry about road dings, mileage, where I park it...etc. I can relax, drive the crap out of it and enjoy my vacation while our cars are locked safely at home in the garage. Anyhow, we just got back from a week down at Myrtle Beach, SC. I reserved a "Full Size" car from Enterprise. When I went to pick it up they drove around in a Chevy HHR. This is basically Chevy's version of a PT Cruiser. When I asked they claimed that the HHR is considered (by Enterprise) to be in the full-size class. Now understand that I was about to take myself, my wife, our 16 year-old son and his 17 yr old friend on a 9 hour drive with luggage. I sat in the HHR and said, "No way". It was downright small inside. The rear seat legroom was way too tight. I mean like knees-against-the-hard-plastic-seatback tight. After looking around the lot at other options, I decided on a 2009 Hyundai Sonata. It was actually cheaper because it's considered "Intermediate" size but it had much more passenger room.
I have never driven a Hyundai before and I'm pretty sure 10 years ago I wouldn't have liked it. But let me tell you, that '09 Sonata was a really nice car. It was well appointed, very comfortable, and ran great. I have to admit that if I were shopping for a car right now, the Hyundai Sonata would be on my short list.

foreverandaminute

good to know!

13edge

Unfortunately, Hyundai is the one car company that needs to stop surprising people to advance as an automaker, because for us older folks who remember when they first came out... It's more like we're always surprised in a "Holy cow, I'm in a Hyundai and I didn't break down!" kind of way. They've mostly kicked the rep, but driving down the road all *****-nilly, and realizing your new car is on fire tends to scar people a little.

matt_a

LOL..yep, that would leave an impression on me! Do you have a personal story to go with that, or was it a general comment about their past performance?

guitarguru44

The way I see it ford/chevy is gonna be bankrupt. Toyota/honda is gonna be the new ford/chevy because of market share and no competition. Hyundai now is gonna be the new toyota/honda because they are producing quality cars for cheap.

Moral of the story is toyota/honda have become number one but they have to be cautious to not fall into the same things that made ford/chevy fail.

vettereddie

Try not to lump in Ford with Chevy. Not from the stupid American rivalry standpoint, but from the business side. Ford is the only one NOT in bancruptcy, has not received federal funding, and has sales UP for July. They realized that when people buy less cars, suprise, you produce less. They are also bringing over the Euro Festiva, which seems to be a better hatch than the xA was, and are putting out a Taurus that isn't destined for just rental lots. Tech wise, they're finally going factory turbo n a lot of their vehicles for better fuel economy like VW has been doing for decades.

That being said, the top of my short list when the xB is paid off is the turbo I4 Genesis coupe. I've gotten Hyundai rentals before and have not been happy, the handling was loose and the braking downright dangerous (huge nose dive, even with moderate pressure). Of course, those were all compacts. Hyundai seems to vary vastly in quality between models. I've also ridden in a Hyundai XG300 and it was like a Lexus.

jsingh

i liked sonata...i was considering it when i bought my tC!

rangerryda

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, Ford isn't going anywhere. Chrysler and GM quite possibly are going to have some major problems in the future.

matt_a

What do you mean by that? My xA has been 100% perfect since day one (almost 4 years now). It is rock-solid with no squeeks or rattles, no mechanical or electrical issues at all, and it gets excellent gas mileage. Exactly how is the Ford "better"?

rangerryda

iTrader: (1)

No squeaks and rattles in a Scion? You must have gotten the concept version lol

vettereddie

Fiesta, not Festiva, my mistake. I don't hate the xA, I'd love to pick one up for time attack and autoX. However, stock as a daily driver, it has more cargo space, more HP, wider color selection (including bright green, orange, red, etc. for all models), larger wheelbase and most likely a lower , sub $12k pricetag. Also, a dual-clutch 6-speed auto trans is availalbe, and if the xA is like my xB, it's pretty rev-happy at 65. 2 More gears should help cabin noise and fuel economy.

Did I mention a factory turbo option.

I love my box, but Scion seems to be getting complacent, which was the same thing that befell GM. Innovation is key, and the tC hasn't seen new sheet metal in 6 years. The iQ seems to be moving things back in the right direction, if they don't price it more than a Fit.

Sorry for the long post, guess my main point is that while I like Scion and appreciate their support for the mod community, don't get stuck on brand loyalty to where you become blind to other options, I think the original poster's experience with the Sonata shows that.

guitarguru44

Yea I guess if you can just print as much money as you want then no one will be bankrupt. Ford sure is a great business (no it's not).

Anywho, the point wasn't to truly make those comparisons that I made but to issue a warning for Honda and Toyota to be very careful. They must stay adaptive and continue to produce whatever the customer wants to buy. Just look at the Scion brand and what a failure that is heading towards. Look at the rise in sales from 04 to 06, and then the decrease from 06 to 08.

xB sales
2004 47,013
2005 54,037
2006 61,306
2007 45,834
2008 45,220

xA and xD sales
2004 24,184
2005 28,033
2006 32,603
2007 20,495
2008 27,704

tC sales
2004 28,062
2005 74,415
2006 79,125
2007 63,852
2008 40,980

There is clearly a trend here that many different business and auto sources see. It is something that Toyota sees and they have said that they are going to fix this. I think the iQ will help a great deal, and I think the second generation tC if done right can really help as well. The way I see it is that the xD and xB2 can be considered failures compared to the xA and xB since they lost market share. If the tC2 follows suit then maybe this will be too large for the Scion brand to dig itself out from. While I do have faith in Toyota to fix the issue, I was merely trying to make the parallel that they are number 1 and to stay at that level they have to avoid the pitfalls of previous number 1 companies (Chevy and Ford) while at the same time being well aware of the progress of other new companies (Hyundai).

JOE

guitarguru44

Haha, didn't get a chance to really read this before posting, but yea my points in the previous post pretty much agree with yours over here.

JOE

matt_a

Two things:
1. I am the original poster.

2. I'm not stuck on brand loyalty at all. Case in point...I liked my xA so much that we bought my wife a new xB RS 2.0 in solar yellow. While it was a cool car, we weren't happy with the "feel". It just felt (and sounded) very hollow and cheap. We traded it for a Nissan. And as I said in my original post, when it's time to buy again I will consider Hyundai as well.

I guess it just struck me as odd the way you said that the Ford will be a better car than the xA when I consider my xA to be one of the best values I ever owned (and that includes several vehicles that were much more expensive).

vettereddie

Value is defined on a personal basis, which is a good thing since it gives consumer choice. My point was mainly a response to guitarguru's first statement, which it looks like we're now in agreement on, in that Toyota / Scion as the new number one can not be complacent or they will make the mistake of GM.

I was also trying to state that business aspects of GM (largest domestic manufacturer), Chrystler (privately-held) and Ford (restructured shortly before the financial mess) were much different, and that Ford was pretty much the only one of the three to be able to grasp the market and respond appropriately through reduction in models and total production output. My reference to the xA was merely to demonstrate that point, in that Ford realises that there is a substantial US b-car market and that that market is tired of the previous domestic crap a la Geo Metro and Chevette of old and more recently the Aveo and last gen Festiva (SHOGun excluded). They seemed to have learned from even Scion to put out something in response to the market (RS colors available on all cars, body kit, 6-speed trans, and even forced induction factory), which would have been nice but not available on the xA / 1gen xB or xD.

SentraSE-R

Those of you who think Hyundai is an also-ran need to think again.

Hyundai's reliability rankings tied Honda, according to Consumers Union in 2003. It was tied with Honda for initial brand quality in a JD Power & Associates 2004 survey/study, coming in behind only Toyota. It came in third in 2006, behind only Porsche and Lexus (and ahead of Toyota and Honda) in the JD Power and Associates quality ranking.

In 2006, Hyundai’s Entourage minivan earned a five-star safety rating – the highest honor the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration bestows – for all seating positions in frontal and side-impact crashes. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety also rates the Entourage “Good” – its highest rating – in front, side and rear impacts. The IIHS named the 2006 Hyundai Entourage and Kia Sedona (a Hyundai clone product) a “Gold Top Safety Pick,” making the safest minivan ever tested.

2007 Hyundai Santa Fe SUV earned IIHS' Top Safety Pick Award.

2008 Hyundai Santa Fe and Elantra earned CU's "top pick" rating as among the 10 best cars for the year. Elantra was rated "excellent" for reliability, and was CU's top-ranked 2008 compact/subcompact vehicle, above Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, and Toyota Prius.

We, and lots of other people, seriously underrate Hyundais. The used 2006 Hyundai Elantra my wife and I bough had a suggested retail blue book price that's $7200 less than a used 2006 Honda Civic EX 4 door, $5100 less than a Civic LX, and $6600 less than an Accord SE! Why do I mention it in the same sentence with the Honda Accord? Because the Elantra is roomy enough inside to be a midsize car, not a compact.

rangerryda

iTrader: (1)

Bottom line, Hyundai finally stepped up to the plate.

13edge

My mom bought an Excel brand new a long time ago. I think the whole car cost less than 10 grand. About a month later, on her way from work, it had some kind of electrical problem, a fire started, and she had to pull over on the side of the grand central in NY. It was rush hour... anyone who has been in rush hour on the grand central knows it will take emergency responders awhile, plus back then cell phones were about the size of text books, and only lawyers had them. Long story short, she watched the car burn. Me and my uncle were waiting on her to go to green acres mall that evening. I was outside playing basketball with the other kids, when he popped out and said she might be late, because some schmuck's car was on fire on the highway.

Like I said, though, Hyundai is really kicking it's old rep in the teeth. I've liked the lines of the Tiburon for some time now.

foreverandaminute

funny stuff C:

vettereddie

Thanks, I'll be here all week.

I'll take this as advisement that it's not good to post after lunch or at the end of the day when out of coffee. I'm suprised it hasn't been made someone's signature yet.