msu-dawg

I posted this same message a few minutes ago but it ended up in Private Party classifieds section by mistake. Sorry for confusion and double post.

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So I've decided to buy an xB. I want rS4.0 (Torched Penny paint). I also must have cruise control and the ipod stereo. I looked at one very close to me listed at $19013 with options but didn't get to point of discussing trade in detail (it was late in day a few days ago). Car had bazooka tube as option (a $450 cost) that I didn't want (read: wife didn't want) so I searched around. Found same car less bazooka and the door sill enhancements for $18445 at a dealership about 1 hour drive away. Called them late today and said I want to buy your car if we can make trade-in work, it'll be close to closing time when I get there, can we make this work or should I call tomorrow? Yes, head this way sales guy says, and begins getting relevant info by phone.

We get there and discuss specifics of wheel upgrade I wanted to add while my trade is being looked at. Comes back with offer on trade of $10K. Now I realize that people have to make a living and I can't get as much for truck on trade as if I decide to just sell it outright but their number was lower than edmunds, KBB, and NADA on trade ($10,106, $11,565, and $12,275, respectively). So of course I said, no dice and was asked what I wanted. Since they went way low I figure the appropriate response is go high so I told them $12,500 (I had room for negotiation). Salesman speaks with sales manager briefly and then says sorry, $10K is best they can do. So I thank them for their time and wasting mine to drive the hour over to get insulted.

A slight bit of further discussion is had and I'm told by the salesman that because of Scion's pure price model, they're not allowed to negotiate on trade-in offers. He says that ONCE THEY PUT AN OFFER ON PAPER (his was a little scrap of paper) THAT THEY CAN'T CHANGE IT. The salesman seemed to be sympathetic to the fact they were trying to screw me on trade but said nothing he could do.

So we left as they were turning off lights and locking gate.

Has anyone else heard of this "once the number is on paper we can't change" garbage? Any other stories about how trade-in have gone? I want their car but if selling outright I'd list truck for $14 and sell for no less than $13 and that's still a lot less than the used car lots are asking for them here (try $17K to $20K). And those are real numbers based on as equipped, good condition (I don't pretend to think my truck is worthy of an 'EXCELLENT' rating). I'm not giving them on order of $2K they don't deserve.

I hope they don't call back today with an offer to haggle on trade price cause my wife will absolutely go off if they do. She was a little peeved and disappointed last night when we left without making deal.

itsmethemagicz

well when i traded in my truck, before he went and looked at it he asked how much i wanted for it and i said 9k. then he came back with 8900 so i didnt need to push. but it does seem like i heard this before

iheartzombies

iTrader: (1)

I had went to Lakeside Scion in New Orleans my first time and it was horribe. The guy lowballed my car bad and was trying to convince us to come up with an extra 4K on the trade in. I just walked out on that guy and a month later went to Ray Brandt for the nicest people I've ever met.

I guess some dealers are just like that. Try other dealerships maybe. I'm pretty sure anyone of them can order the car you want if they don't have it.

Monkeyideas

i went through something very similar with my trade in. they eventually were willing to up the trade in value but it was still insulting. the one price trade in only is pure crap. i ended up selling my car to my mechanic who gave me a bit more and then i ended up buying a used xA rs2 for couple k less than a new xa without all the rs2.0 add ons

msu-dawg

Thanks for the replies. And good to hear positive things about Ray Brandt- They'd actually be closer to me than the place I drove to last night.

I had thought maybe I could make a trade work and it would have been nice to take advantage of the convenience and save the better than $500 in sales tax I'll have to pay without the trade but those aren't enough reason to give up the solid $1500 difference between what I might have accepted last night and where they offered.

I was just flabergasted at their unwillingness to even discuss it.

ShadowOnTheBayou

Lakeside blows. I got mine from Ray Brandt, as well. Great experience dealing with the folks at Ray Brandt.

msu-dawg

Well, I signed a purchase order tonight and left my truck at the dealership. If all works out I should have my own RS4.0 xB tomorrow sometime. I'm currently driving a loaner xB. Very excited. Once all works out well I'll tell you where I bought it

ArmedSalad

i went to the dealership in hammond first and they offered me 1500 for my truck, i couldn't argue with that considering in good condition kelly blue book listed it at 4500 and my truck needed about 1600 in work and had been involved in roughly 5 accidents. it also was pushing 180k miles on a 98 model. when i went to Northshore Toyota they offered me 800 for my truck and i gave the sales guy a look and he said he would be right back and they then gave me 1500 for my truck. glad to hear you found a place that gave you a price you could accept

Bubble2Box

Unfortunately, since Scion "retailers" are pure price, some that can't get out of the "dealer" mentality feel they have to pull one over on the customer somehow. Thus they low ball the trade in. I walked out of the first dealer I went to in Jackson. Just got up and walked away. They'd already put it to my buddy when he traded, but he did it anyway. The next dealer was on the North Shore....they offered $500.00 more, but I was more polite, as I'd worked with the sales person at another place and liked her. Not her fault. Finally at Gray-Daniels in Brandon, I got a fair trade. I understand that they have to make money selling the trades, but please. They gave me a fair wholesale amount for my VW and sold it fairly quickly for a profit. That's good business for all.

msu-dawg

As I have now mentioned in another thread, I purchased my RS4 at Scion of Slidell. They didn't have it but got it from another dealer. We ended up adding some options that I hadn't thought about, most prominent being the leather wrapped steering wheel. Dropped car off tonight to have the "we owe" list installed.

I couldn't be much happier than I am with Slidell. I've never been treated so professionally in a car dealership as I was there. Hightly recommended. And when all was done I ended up getting nearly $1200 more than the other dealership offered on trade and didn't have to pay any additional "fees" (boy are those a pet peeve).

Happy to be part of the family now!

scionturtle

I work at a scion dealership as the scion manager & sales consultant and trades are always a dicey proposition. I have seen more deals go south because a person had come in thinking that they should get what was on NADA or Edmonds. The truth is those are only resource guides that are not always up to date. If we are offering a fair price based on Kelly and what Manheim says it went for on an average at auction, and the person keeps harping about NADA or Edmonds, I politely remind them of two things. One your car is rarely ever worth what you owe on it, and two that they could try calling Edmonds or NADA and ask they to buy their car. This usual incites laughter or being ____ed off. But the truth is people want to a buy car at wholesale prices (which is really what you are paying for a base scion about $650 to $700 profit) but trade their car to the dealership for retail prices. We will pay full retail for a used car if someone would buy our car at full sticker. But the first question anyone asks most times even before they drive the car is how much you gonna take off the sticker?? Oh I love the car business. However I am unaware of this once the price is given on the trade it cant be changed. Sounds like BS to me. Like they lowballed you and than pulled that rule out of their ___ to cover the lowball

msu-dawg

Good point- Edmunds and NADA don't buy cars and therefore have no interest in massaging the price of a trade-in. The customer and dealership do have "dogs in that hunt". Just as much as my goal as a customer is to maximize what you offer for trade, your job is to try to minimize what I'm willing to take. It's just the nature of the way the game works. So please don't take offense, but your opinion of how valid NADA or Edmunds, or any other price guide are, mean absolutely jack to me.

And what is your point about how much people owe? I'm sure there are many people who owe more than their vehicle is worth and are surprised when they can't get enough to pay it off. But there are plenty of other people (like me) who actually owe thousands less than what their trade is worth. That doesn't mean I should be willing to give it away just because I didn't finance it for too long of a term and put myself upside down. What I owe is irrelevant to my goal of getting the most I can from my trade.

And as a side note, my trade is currently listed for $15K- nearly $4K more than I got on trade. Don't take my comment the wrong way- I fully expected it to be listed for that much. I never expected a dealer to offer me retail for my vehicle- simply a fair trade price. If they deal by $2K on their price (sell for $13K) they've still made decent money even after you take into account their expense of having the vehicle fully detailed and serviced. And the closer to the asking price they sell it the more profit they've made.

scionturtle

My point was that one of the biggest complaints we hear about trades is "that doesnt even cover my payoff". To which we would respond if you owed nothing on your car you wouldnt want us to give you nothing for it. what people owe on a trade has nothing to do with what it is worth. Regarding NADA & Edmonds, there is alot they dont take into consideration For example is it a one owner car, now you can say that shouldnt matter but it does. People pay more for a one owner car. In fact when it comes to used cars the two most asked questions besides "what you gonna take off that price is.. has it ever been wrecked and is it a one owner car?? I agree it is the dealers job to try and make as much as possible on a car and its the customers job to try and get the purchase as low as possible and get as much as they can for the trade. But as much as dealers lowball a trade the ideas of the value of a customers personal vehicle are ridiculous. I have had customers with 100k on their car rate it as excellent. Customers that think a car with 200k on them is worth 4000 and guys that just paid 40k for a crappy domestic vehicle get mad that is worth 7 to 10 grand less than they owe on it. Its a crazy game, but all thing considered the car business is the best job that I have ever had

msu-dawg

I agree completely that what's owed on a vehicle has nothing to do with it's worth. And it's really a sad fact, in my opinion, that banks and other finance institutions allow people to enter into terms that are so long that there's no way the customer will ever be right-side-up on the vehicle until it's completely worn out and finally paid for, if it makes it that long. Most people would be looking to make a change before getting it paid off and find themselves in the situation you describe. I financed my xB for 54 months, and that was 6 longer than I ideally wanted. The credit union lady said "oh, we can go up to 72 months if you'd like". Not NO, but He** NO. If the average person can't afford the payment on a 5 year (or preferably less) note then they just need to buy a cheaper car.

And I completely agree about specifics mattering. This xB is my first truly new car- I knew exactly what I wanted and purchased where I got a reasonable trade-price and felt comfortable with the dealership. Buying used is a whole other ball game. Every used car has it's own story and certainly a vehicle being a one-owner adds value. And I can only imagine some of the people you have to deal with who think their car is worth an unreasonable amount of money!

Thanks for the discussion and adding insight from your perspective.

Love my Box BTW!

scionturtle

Cool Hope you can come to the Throw Down here in Hoover and we can meet in person. Love to see your new ride

XB_XIII

ya my xb on kbb is worth 12,400-12,800...... i got a trade in value of 10,500, from scion( was intrested in gettin a tc).. they said xb's with mods are harder to sell, and they didnt want the hastle of having it sit on the lot(slap to the face) im seriously thinking bout converting to HONDA