Scion owner steals handicap parking!
12-31-2005, 06:32 PM
#21
Senior Member
Scionetics
SL Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: S C I O N E T I C S
Posts: 3,394
I emailed the most likely suspect to Darren already.
We'll see.
We'll see.
12-31-2005, 06:32 PM
#22
Senior Member
Team No Limitz
SL Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 364
thats messed up...i was at that mall lastnight and saw a Tc that was at the poker run...i hope it was not u that was that rude
12-31-2005, 06:46 PM
#23
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: austin texas
Posts: 92
sorryto hear your problems out there in az. sounds like this is going both ways.. the woman should not make such a assumption about the cars/owners and of course that guy shouldnt have been there.. and of course it makes me look even worse being a guy of asian decent driving a bsp tc.. ugh some of my people are just insanly stupid well i guess that gose for every race. anyways hope ya find out the person and when you dont .. dont be quick to assume.
12-31-2005, 08:49 PM
#24
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,185
With this we might want to remember that with us as a community (or un-clubism)
we are under the microscope when we do things. In all the years of me being in clubs and organizations I do try to remember that when we are a group or individual we are being looked at. Its all fun and games but just remember to look outside the circle and see how people percieve us from the outside in. Remember little things like the poker run stickers or the scion life stickers/shirts singles us all out. So if your out doing something take 5 seconds and think about it.. ... this leads into this below..
sorry for the what ever you want to take it as.
Well in light of this unfortunate event lets make some New Years goodness come out of this. Lets all take 1 second out and maybe think before we do something? Actions that we do have some sort of opposite reaction good or bad. So maybe just maybe that second of thought might bring about a better (hopfully better) reaction to what we do in our daily lives. It might sound a little sappy but, hey we will never know till we try. Lets try to make this coming year something of a positive rather that the negative that 2005 has been..
So try to do that age old crazy idea. Pay it forward.
and with that.. I do wish you all a Happy New years!
we are under the microscope when we do things. In all the years of me being in clubs and organizations I do try to remember that when we are a group or individual we are being looked at. Its all fun and games but just remember to look outside the circle and see how people percieve us from the outside in. Remember little things like the poker run stickers or the scion life stickers/shirts singles us all out. So if your out doing something take 5 seconds and think about it.. ... this leads into this below..
sorry for the what ever you want to take it as.
Well in light of this unfortunate event lets make some New Years goodness come out of this. Lets all take 1 second out and maybe think before we do something? Actions that we do have some sort of opposite reaction good or bad. So maybe just maybe that second of thought might bring about a better (hopfully better) reaction to what we do in our daily lives. It might sound a little sappy but, hey we will never know till we try. Lets try to make this coming year something of a positive rather that the negative that 2005 has been..
So try to do that age old crazy idea. Pay it forward.
and with that.. I do wish you all a Happy New years!
12-31-2005, 09:08 PM
#25
Juris_Doc, I'm not in AZ, but in my state (WA) the "Revised Code of Washington" (RCW) has equivalent requirements.
In addition an ID card is issued with Disabled Parking Placards or licenses, and if there is a question, RCW 46.16.381(13)(d) says that if challenged by proper authority, it must be shown: A police officer or a volunteer may request a person to show the person's identification card or special parking placard when investigating the possibility of a violation of this section. If the request is refused, the person in charge of the vehicle may be issued a notice of infraction for a violation of this section.
Locally there are special enforcement vehicles staffed by trained (often handicapped) volunteers that love to get calls from the public to take care of problem parkers... :D
(Incidentally, RCW 46.61.581 states that the person owning or controlling the property where required parking spaces are located is required to maintain the signs, markings and spaces, and shall ensure that the parking spaces are not blocked or made inaccessible, and failure to do so is a class 2 civil infraction.
One of the large chain supermarkets in this area was especially bad about this (they consistantly put their shopping cart return 'corrals' in the striped areas next to the handicapped slots even with multiple complaints) until they found that it started costing them $125/day to do that...per handicapped slot.
The enforcement volunteers got their attention. 
Anyway, this incident will hopefully get itself sorted out. It's often "kids" using a relative's placard to get privledges they neither deserve nor need.
(Doggoned tpyos!)
In addition an ID card is issued with Disabled Parking Placards or licenses, and if there is a question, RCW 46.16.381(13)(d) says that if challenged by proper authority, it must be shown: A police officer or a volunteer may request a person to show the person's identification card or special parking placard when investigating the possibility of a violation of this section. If the request is refused, the person in charge of the vehicle may be issued a notice of infraction for a violation of this section.
Locally there are special enforcement vehicles staffed by trained (often handicapped) volunteers that love to get calls from the public to take care of problem parkers... :D
(Incidentally, RCW 46.61.581 states that the person owning or controlling the property where required parking spaces are located is required to maintain the signs, markings and spaces, and shall ensure that the parking spaces are not blocked or made inaccessible, and failure to do so is a class 2 civil infraction.
One of the large chain supermarkets in this area was especially bad about this (they consistantly put their shopping cart return 'corrals' in the striped areas next to the handicapped slots even with multiple complaints) until they found that it started costing them $125/day to do that...per handicapped slot.
The enforcement volunteers got their attention. Anyway, this incident will hopefully get itself sorted out. It's often "kids" using a relative's placard to get privledges they neither deserve nor need.
(Doggoned tpyos!)
12-31-2005, 09:25 PM
#26
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 48
This is a great reminder to us all. It doesnt pay to be a d@$k. Be cool cuz karma will kick you in the a@$
12-31-2005, 10:12 PM
#27
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 37
Someone should photoshop the pic of the guilty behind bars
12-31-2005, 11:37 PM
#28
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Always In Front Of You
Posts: 2,834
Not to sound arrogant, but why should the passenger or whoever flipped the bird apologize? There is no need for the apology. There was no need for that lady to email darren and rant how she ranted.... the Scion had a handicapped card hanging from the window and was in a handicapped spot.... what's so illegal about that? NOTHING.
Quite frankly, the lady should apologize more so than the scion people. She ASSUMED there was nothing wrong w/ either of them, when there very might well be!
No need to go through the pictures at all to see who it was, that will just stir up the pot more, if the scion owner and the passenger want to come forward..let them come forward!...dont force them...
SHAME ON HER!
Quite frankly, the lady should apologize more so than the scion people. She ASSUMED there was nothing wrong w/ either of them, when there very might well be!
No need to go through the pictures at all to see who it was, that will just stir up the pot more, if the scion owner and the passenger want to come forward..let them come forward!...dont force them...
SHAME ON HER!
01-01-2006, 12:07 AM
#29
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 113
Not to be a punk... but usually it takes alittle more to prompt the finger from somebody than that. All i know is they had a handicap card and we dont really know the circumstances involved in it all. I would think that mouthing the words "you should be ashamed" would not get such a reaction. Just in my opinion, but who knows. Just issue an apology and leave it as it is....
01-01-2006, 01:36 AM
#30
Well, Zach, it turns out you have no idea what you are talking about...
You said "Not to sound arrogant, but why should the passenger or whoever flipped the bird apologize? There is no need for the apology. There was no need for that lady to email darren and rant how she ranted.... the Scion had a handicapped card hanging from the window and was in a handicapped spot.... what's so illegal about that? NOTHING."
First, it was not the passenger, but the driver, second, the LAW (you've perhaps heard of that?) allows the vehicle to park in a marked handicapped spot ONLY when the person the placard was issued to is using the vehicle.
To give you an example, if I were to park my handicapped licensed xB in a handicapped spot, there would be no problem.
If, however, someone else borrowed my car, and decided that they now had a "right" to park in a handicapped spot, and were challenged by parking or law enforcement to show their ID, if their name did not match the name registered with the license (or placard) number, they are subject to fine and a point or two on their license...
In my state, the fine is $250 and NOT dismissable, in the state I was just visiting in (OR) the fine is $450.
It is NOT the vehicle that is authorized to use the parking spot even though the placard or license is often attached to it, but the handicapped person the placard or license was issued to.
If that person is NOT using the vehicle there is NO right to use a handicapped spot.
Now, why do I tend to get riled up about people spewing wrong information about this? It's because I spent three years in a wheelchair and KNOW that special parking spots with wide aisles next to them are a necessity, or I couldn't even get into or out of my car.
How would YOU like to not even shop for groceries? If a person is in a wheelchair they NEED that wide space next to their car to transfer to it. If some idiot thinks they can park in the last handicapped spot because grandma's placard is hanging on the mirror, that wheelchair bound person can't just use another parking spot.
Let's say the DID use another, regular, parking spot that has a vacant slot next to it so they can get out of their car. Will that spot be vacant when they get back? If it's not, they can't get to their car. They NEED that wide spot with a guaranteed space next to it.
Even now that I've fought my way out of the wheelchair, I can't move around as well as a normal ablebodied person, and because of that need to open my car door wider than normal to get in and out. Add in that many with handicaps (even invisible ones) are VERY limited in the distances they can move or time they can remain standing. This is why federal law, without exception, requires that handicapped spots be cosest to accessible building entries.
I tend to be an activist - I've even taken on "City Hall" when they screwed up on handicapped access, and the feds showed them the light...
I personally think that there is a quite simple fix for the non-handicapped who want to use handicapped privledges: handicap the buggers! Gimme a baseball bat - I'll take care of it...
Now, back to what set me off here. Zach, it is illegal, unlawful, and morally bankrupt to use a handicapped placard 'just because it's there.' It is because of people like you that do NOT know the law and do NOT understand the real needs of the handicapped that there is so much of a problem with handicapped parking.
Even before I became handicapped myself, I was for several years the official ADA contact for my engineering group, and assisted employees in getting necessary accomodations. If the company wouldn't make legitimate changes, I had no problem giving the employee contact numbers and a referral to the regional federal folks.
For now, I'll just wander off and calm down, but before I do, will someone check for pics of Zach's tC? With comments like this, "No need to go through the pictures at all to see who it was, that will just stir up the pot more, if the scion owner and the passenger want to come forward..let them come forward!...dont force them..." he's almost objecting too much.
You said "Not to sound arrogant, but why should the passenger or whoever flipped the bird apologize? There is no need for the apology. There was no need for that lady to email darren and rant how she ranted.... the Scion had a handicapped card hanging from the window and was in a handicapped spot.... what's so illegal about that? NOTHING."
First, it was not the passenger, but the driver, second, the LAW (you've perhaps heard of that?) allows the vehicle to park in a marked handicapped spot ONLY when the person the placard was issued to is using the vehicle.
To give you an example, if I were to park my handicapped licensed xB in a handicapped spot, there would be no problem.
If, however, someone else borrowed my car, and decided that they now had a "right" to park in a handicapped spot, and were challenged by parking or law enforcement to show their ID, if their name did not match the name registered with the license (or placard) number, they are subject to fine and a point or two on their license...
In my state, the fine is $250 and NOT dismissable, in the state I was just visiting in (OR) the fine is $450.
It is NOT the vehicle that is authorized to use the parking spot even though the placard or license is often attached to it, but the handicapped person the placard or license was issued to.
If that person is NOT using the vehicle there is NO right to use a handicapped spot.
Now, why do I tend to get riled up about people spewing wrong information about this? It's because I spent three years in a wheelchair and KNOW that special parking spots with wide aisles next to them are a necessity, or I couldn't even get into or out of my car.
How would YOU like to not even shop for groceries? If a person is in a wheelchair they NEED that wide space next to their car to transfer to it. If some idiot thinks they can park in the last handicapped spot because grandma's placard is hanging on the mirror, that wheelchair bound person can't just use another parking spot.
Let's say the DID use another, regular, parking spot that has a vacant slot next to it so they can get out of their car. Will that spot be vacant when they get back? If it's not, they can't get to their car. They NEED that wide spot with a guaranteed space next to it.
Even now that I've fought my way out of the wheelchair, I can't move around as well as a normal ablebodied person, and because of that need to open my car door wider than normal to get in and out. Add in that many with handicaps (even invisible ones) are VERY limited in the distances they can move or time they can remain standing. This is why federal law, without exception, requires that handicapped spots be cosest to accessible building entries.
I tend to be an activist - I've even taken on "City Hall" when they screwed up on handicapped access, and the feds showed them the light...
I personally think that there is a quite simple fix for the non-handicapped who want to use handicapped privledges: handicap the buggers! Gimme a baseball bat - I'll take care of it...
Now, back to what set me off here. Zach, it is illegal, unlawful, and morally bankrupt to use a handicapped placard 'just because it's there.' It is because of people like you that do NOT know the law and do NOT understand the real needs of the handicapped that there is so much of a problem with handicapped parking.
Even before I became handicapped myself, I was for several years the official ADA contact for my engineering group, and assisted employees in getting necessary accomodations. If the company wouldn't make legitimate changes, I had no problem giving the employee contact numbers and a referral to the regional federal folks.
For now, I'll just wander off and calm down, but before I do, will someone check for pics of Zach's tC? With comments like this, "No need to go through the pictures at all to see who it was, that will just stir up the pot more, if the scion owner and the passenger want to come forward..let them come forward!...dont force them..." he's almost objecting too much.
01-01-2006, 02:00 AM
#31
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Always In Front Of You
Posts: 2,834
Originally Posted by Tomas
For now, I'll just wander off and calm down, but before I do, will someone check for pics of Zach's tC? With comments like this, "No need to go through the pictures at all to see who it was, that will just stir up the pot more, if the scion owner and the passenger want to come forward..let them come forward!...dont force them..." he's almost objecting too much.
I have been in PA since December 24th and will not be back in Arizona till Jan 2nd.
pretty bad when you pin it on me by an assumption!How do you know the driver maybe didn't have something wrong w/ her? You dont know the real reason to why it was posted, so why are we even arguing?
that post was my view and opinion, tomas, like ive said before...if you dont like my posts, why stir up the pot more by forcing the issue? YOU, ME, DARREN, EVERYONE doesn't know the real reason to why the scion owner had it on the windshield, so why even go on rants about it??? it's stupid.
this topic is totally getting blown out of proportion and needs to be locked or deleted!
01-01-2006, 02:06 AM
#32
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Always In Front Of You
Posts: 2,834
But since you are calling me out...here you go...
Now if people want to start lashing out at ME...check yourself, because I am defending myself because someone got all HUFFY and called me out....
There's the pics..Email them to the lady...see if she says that's the same scion
bet she dont!
Now if people want to start lashing out at ME...check yourself, because I am defending myself because someone got all HUFFY and called me out....
There's the pics..Email them to the lady...see if she says that's the same scion
bet she dont!
01-01-2006, 02:21 AM
#33
Originally Posted by BlkSandPrlTurbotC
that post was my view and opinion, tomas, like ive said before...if you dont like my posts, why stir up the pot more by forcing the issue?
When a person gives a public "opinion" on something (Such as "all Scions are made in Denmark") that is provably wrong, it is only right to correct it rather than to let it stand.
On to the other: You were in PA? Great! Wasn't you then.
(Wasn't that easy? )Next!
(Remember all the person being sought needs to do is say "Gee! I was me, the placard is mine, and I apologize for giving the lady the finger." If they can't do that because either the placard was not theirs or they aren't at all sorry, then it is time well spent identifying them. That's MY opinion, Zach.)
01-01-2006, 02:29 AM
#34
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Always In Front Of You
Posts: 2,834
01-01-2006, 03:18 AM
#35
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ride21
Posts: 4,295
ZAch, You need to get out more. Just chill.
Tomas, Please lock this thread or another mod of power. It has been beaten up enough already.
Thanks
Your D&S Happy Holiday Cheery Guy
Tomas, Please lock this thread or another mod of power. It has been beaten up enough already.
Thanks
Your D&S Happy Holiday Cheery Guy
01-01-2006, 04:22 AM
#36
(Chad, IMHO this should have been locked down quite some time ago, as there are a number of folks posting who have no understanding of the problem, and wish none. However, I will allow it to run to resolution or closure by the originator...)
01-02-2006, 05:04 AM
#37
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 93
And yet still. no one has proven that they didn't "need" that spot, or have any right to use that spot. Untill that, I dont see the point in arguing.
I also agree with the fact that it usually takes a liitle more than saying something to comebody to get fliiped off. We dont know both sides of the story so how can you flame this person without knowing both sides. Besides when did this become open season on fellow scion owners.
When we find that person are we going to go "beat that person with a bat" as so not cleverly put by Tomas. This really makes for a friendly greeting to newcomers to the website to see that not only are we a car organization, but if we catch you doing something that we think is wrong we are going to beat you with a bat. That sounds like brilliant reasoning to me.
And why arent we closing this thread, because when we find out who this is we want to threaten them talk crap to them. That sounds like fun to me, not. . There will never be closure to this so why not just Lock it.
I also agree with the fact that it usually takes a liitle more than saying something to comebody to get fliiped off. We dont know both sides of the story so how can you flame this person without knowing both sides. Besides when did this become open season on fellow scion owners.
When we find that person are we going to go "beat that person with a bat" as so not cleverly put by Tomas. This really makes for a friendly greeting to newcomers to the website to see that not only are we a car organization, but if we catch you doing something that we think is wrong we are going to beat you with a bat. That sounds like brilliant reasoning to me.
And why arent we closing this thread, because when we find out who this is we want to threaten them talk crap to them. That sounds like fun to me, not. . There will never be closure to this so why not just Lock it.
01-02-2006, 07:18 AM
#38
If you go back and read carefully you will see that I was not speaking of whoever it was that was the initial focus of this thread, but of those folks who have a desire to park in handicapped spots, but are not handicapped - there is only one way to get that privledge, and if they really think they want it, they can be accomodated.
So, my saying "I personally think that there is a quite simple fix for the non-handicapped who want to use handicapped privledges: handicap the buggers! Gimme a baseball bat - I'll take care of it..." does not equate to your accusing me of claiming "When we find that person are we going to go "beat that person with a bat" as so not cleverly put by Tomas."
It indeed is not so clever of you to accuse me of saying something I did not when it is right here on the same page, Aaron. That sort of inflammatory incorrect quoting is just the sort of thing that turns threads ugly. Apologies can help correct that.
That entire post was aimed at correcting the mistaken idea that the CAR with a placard has a RIGHT to park in a handicapped spot, when indeed it is only the PERSON the placard is issued to who does per both federal and state law. There is no flaming in my posts. If you feel there was, please point it out.
As to proving they did or did not "need" that spot (or even if they were "authorised" that spot) there has been no determination at all, and cannot be so long as they are "unknowns." If they are identified they can be asked. They were either right or wrong. That is enough reason to try to identify them.
If they were right, the only question is why the lady was flipped off, if they were wrong they can be told why they were wrong.
As far as this becoming 'open season on fellow scion owners' you are the one falsely accusing and flaming others, Aaron. You accuse me of threatening the unknown driver and you accuse me of flaming that person, when neither one is supported by the words here.
I believe you are the only one who said anything like this, too, Aaron: "And why arent we closing this thread, because when we find out who this is we want to threaten them talk crap to them."
Attacks on and flaming other members, Aaron, ARE prohibited by the site rules...
So, my saying "I personally think that there is a quite simple fix for the non-handicapped who want to use handicapped privledges: handicap the buggers! Gimme a baseball bat - I'll take care of it..." does not equate to your accusing me of claiming "When we find that person are we going to go "beat that person with a bat" as so not cleverly put by Tomas."
It indeed is not so clever of you to accuse me of saying something I did not when it is right here on the same page, Aaron. That sort of inflammatory incorrect quoting is just the sort of thing that turns threads ugly. Apologies can help correct that.
That entire post was aimed at correcting the mistaken idea that the CAR with a placard has a RIGHT to park in a handicapped spot, when indeed it is only the PERSON the placard is issued to who does per both federal and state law. There is no flaming in my posts. If you feel there was, please point it out.
As to proving they did or did not "need" that spot (or even if they were "authorised" that spot) there has been no determination at all, and cannot be so long as they are "unknowns." If they are identified they can be asked. They were either right or wrong. That is enough reason to try to identify them.
If they were right, the only question is why the lady was flipped off, if they were wrong they can be told why they were wrong.
As far as this becoming 'open season on fellow scion owners' you are the one falsely accusing and flaming others, Aaron. You accuse me of threatening the unknown driver and you accuse me of flaming that person, when neither one is supported by the words here.
I believe you are the only one who said anything like this, too, Aaron: "And why arent we closing this thread, because when we find out who this is we want to threaten them talk crap to them."
Attacks on and flaming other members, Aaron, ARE prohibited by the site rules...
01-02-2006, 07:33 AM
#39
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 365whp/410wtq WRX Town
Posts: 1,589
Here goes my 18 year old acting like an adult bulls$#$% again,
Common people, what happened, happened. I do not want to argue for either side of this fiasco, because it seems to me that it is causing more problems than solving any issues. Please lock this thread, because it is not solving any issues you got our most sincere apology from the un-club.
Also,
Threatening to kick someone’s ___ for doing, something wrong, is not going to help him or her learn not to do it again. I think the humiliation that the person who did this is receiving from this thread is enough, nothing more we can do.
With Sincere apology for whatever happened,
Bardia Nikpourian (AZ scion owner)
Common people, what happened, happened. I do not want to argue for either side of this fiasco, because it seems to me that it is causing more problems than solving any issues. Please lock this thread, because it is not solving any issues you got our most sincere apology from the un-club.
Also,
Threatening to kick someone’s ___ for doing, something wrong, is not going to help him or her learn not to do it again. I think the humiliation that the person who did this is receiving from this thread is enough, nothing more we can do.
With Sincere apology for whatever happened,
Bardia Nikpourian (AZ scion owner)
01-02-2006, 02:55 PM
#40
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,185
Originally Posted by soGone
Threatening to kick someone’s butt for doing, something wrong, is not going to help him or her learn not to do it again. I think the humiliation that the person who did this is receiving from this thread is enough, nothing more we can do.
With Sincere apology for whatever happened,
Bardia Nikpourian (AZ scion owner)
With Sincere apology for whatever happened,
Bardia Nikpourian (AZ scion owner)
Now that is something positive in this thread that I like to hear after it went astray. wtg soGone