DevilTC

I guess for me personally, it's reprehensible for Toyota to use a Subaru engine when they (Toyota) make superior engines then the latter.

Also the Subaru boxer's have a tendency to "drink"/consume motor oil between oil changes; like more than 1 US quart and this is all "normal" operation according to Subaru. A friend of mine owned a '04 WRX and that was a constant issue that he had. He also once asked me to help him change the sparkplugs on it; at the time I didn't know what I was in for and let's just say I'll never do that again.

I don't know about the workings of the FA20 in real world driving, but if it's anything like the EJ20, I don't think I'll be signing up.

torqueTc

iTrader: (11)

What recent "awesome" toyota motors are you talking about specifically? What motor do you think could of been shoe-horned in better, further back, and lower COG?

DevilTC

Specifically the 2ZZ-GE or 3S-GTE for small engines that can be mounted low, and Center Of Gravity can be manipulated through modified suspension components such as performance coilovers with stiffer spring rates.
This is something that Subaru has even stated that they wished to avoid doing during development which is why the FA20 is placed where it is.

Being the owner of a tC I'm sure you’re aware of the amount of "forged" components that Toyota builds into all their engines and not just the performance ones.
For example, the 2AZ-FE that is found in the tC 1st gen can hold up to 21lbs/1.5bar of boost pressure safely WITHOUT any internal engine modification. That means NO new pistons, NO new connecting rods, NO new crankshaft, and NO sleeving. Not many manufacturers can make such a claim. Is that "AWESOME" enough for you?

I'm afraid if you try that on the FA20 you'll be filing a warranty claim on engine failure. Many people are anticipating aftermarket forced induction applications for this car, so engine component strength, longevity, and reliability are real and viable concerns. Then there is cost; yes for more money you can make the engine withstand more boost pressure, but for me I like the engine having that capability straight out of the box.

I'm not trying to say that the FR-S is crappy, quite the contrary; it seems like a very capable car, one that I was looking forward to getting. However, the engine choice that Toyota decided to go with is a deal-breaker for me; that is not to say that other people won't enjoy owning this car, but for what I want out the car it will not satisfy.

jadeT

Isn't the BRZ all wheel drive?

XIEmperorIX

iTrader: (2)

RWD

rhythmnsmoke

And neither can Toyota. Sorry but you are mistaken. Considered to be a veteran among the F/I section for the 1st gen tC (been boosted for around 5-6yrs), a tC is not putting 21lbs of boost through the stock block and being reliable at it. At 400whp is when the internals begin to fail. That's roughly around 14lbs of boost depending on the turbine. If someone told you they were pushing 21lbs on a stock motor then they A) lied to you, or B) did it for a short period of time, and spends the rest babying the car around.

DevilTC

Talked to Rado at the South beach premier of the xB2 and xD.
He did the development and stated that the connecting rods fail at around 22~23 PSI. Anything under that; the engine holds solid.

If you disagree, then give him a shout and verify; I'm going to go with the guy who has developed a turbo kit for the car and races professionally.

TheQuietThings

My WRX holds 18.5lbs. of boost all day long and guess how much of my engine is forged? Nothing. How much oil does the EJ255 drink. Nothing. There is really nothing special about the motor though, its all in the tune and how well you maintain everything. A 2az or 2ar is not superior to the fa or ej setup in anyway. Advantage to the boxer design in that it sits much lower for this application.

TheShirk

Now swap the down pipe and tune it, i think that puts it at 20 PSi and you'll gain ~50 WHP. That puts you close to 300 WTQ.... god dam i want a WRX.

TheQuietThings

Car actually has 300lbs of torque now, and about 250hp. Its really fun to drive and i consider it the ultimate cheap street car. If the frs turns out to be a flop i will highly modify this thing lol.

With 2k of mods (bigger IC, ebcs, downpipe, intake, protune) the car will put down 300whp and 360lbs of torque. Reliably.

rhythmnsmoke

I chat with Chris on Facebook as well as Ken Gushi. Perhaps you misunderstood him, as this is simply not true. I will create a thread in the F/I section for you on your behalf, and you can count how many responses you get stating a completely stock tC 2az can hold 21psi of boost. You were talking to someone who can afford to blow up 30 motors in a weekend or so just for racing with. Not your everyday average guy. Go ahead and pump 21lbs of boost through a 2az if you want to. When it blows just trying to do a dyno pull, don't start crying.

And yes, I race professionally with my tC as well.

PS...Here you go bud. Have at it. I would love to see you find one person to agree with you.

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/sho...09#post4010909

rhythmnsmoke

The FR-S won't need 20psi to do 300whp. 300wtq might need internals though due to the compression.

tC needs about 8-10psi to do 300whp/300wtq. I make 326whp/320wtq @ 11lbs on a Dyno Dynamics (roughly 350whp on a dynojet).

TheShirk

Im running 40 pounds of boosts and a 40-shot of NOS on the stock auto tranny... no problems here.


Except that my car wont move anymore for some reason, or start.

rhythmnsmoke

Lol...what you do, rip the bottle off a moped? Hahaa...love to see that dyno. And the Turbonator doesn't count.

Syldrin

iTrader: (1)

hmmmmm...... no you didn't

torqueTc

iTrader: (11)

Well I am out of the FRS/BRZ purchase. I am building up my civic SI ep3 hatch instead, and going to have more fun with that, and lots more money to play with. I just purchased a full HFP suspension for it, along with brand new HFP 16" rims, and new 205/50/16 tires. Motorswap and turbo coming this summer. After getting screwed with my tC every which way from sunday with scion/toyota, I couldnt give them another dime of my money.

skatenc123

if they live up to the hype ill most likely pick one up in the next year or so. i sold my tc a few months ago. but i have a 335i with 370whp and 390wtq so there would have to be some pretty good power in the FR-S.

1stOne

Haha, funny you say that, I had an EP3 SiR (Canada) with the HFP suspension and 16" wheels. Drove awesome! Where'd you find the suspension though? Let me know, my g/f needs that kit on her '02 SiR.

torqueTc

iTrader: (11)

I got my HFP kit (new) and I would bet money its one of the last kits PERIOD out there thats brand new. It has been discontinued for years, but some other dude on ephatch.com has a new set he is selling for $750, and he is located in Maryland. I can give you the link if that is your around your budget area.

I am stoked to get my stuff put on. Ill post pics of my wheels later tonight (they are going to be delivered in a few hours! I stayed home from work so I can inspect them while the UPS driver is here).

the car handles amazing as it is, and once I swap my brand new HFP stuff on there, the car will be sick.

Ill post my build thread when I get home from EPhatch.com

Edit - build link for my HFP Civic SI http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...SSM-car-inside!

ROCKLANDTOYOTA

im guessing you didint like it when toyota paired with YAMAHA on the 2ZZ-GE engine either......