puggo63

If the gas prices continue to climb in the US and stay near or at $4.00 a gallon then small super economical cars will be the "next" big thing. I think Scion can take on that role by producing micro cars unlike anyone else. They can make them below $20,000 and easily customizable. This can be a great niche for Scion.

dante

^^ too bad they've gone in the opposite direction and "americanized" everything. everything they've come out with for 2nd gen has been bigger, heavier, more powerful, and less efficient. they've lost the entry level crowd to the Fit and the Versa, and the competitors have caught up to (or surpassed) the performance/features/value of the tC. nothing except the logo (and you guys) make them any different from anything else on the road...

YourNameHere

my idea for scion of 2010

Toyota iQ (badged as a scion)
- $12,500
~100hp

Current JDM bB
- $14,500
~140hp

Small RWD 2+2 Coupe w/ 1.8l Turbo
- &17,500
~180hp

nameless_ak

Are you being facetious?

They are similar shape but that doesnt mean they are alike, the pt cruiser really doesnt look anything like the xB the hhr is similar in deminsions but the HHR makes me Gag looking at it and the xB makes me smile, so they are very different, i hate it when people say the xb looks just like a pt cruiser or a HHR. on a side note i think the second gen bB would have been a great way to redisign the pt cruiser for chrysler.

nameless_ak

a 140 hp bB would scoot!

and i wish the iQ would be that cheap but i doubt that.

killerxromances

[quote="nameless_ak"]You serious? They look very much alike, not exactly sure but enough to say they do.

And guys as much as a rwd coupe would be fantastic, i have my doubts Scion will go that route and if they do i can't see them selling them under $19k.

Not to mention if they did, they are directly involving themselves in miata territory. Sorry, i'd take a miata over a rwd scion. But thats just my opion.

Also, the hhr making you gag and the xb making you smile is only your opinion, personally i think the xb2 and hhr both are fugly. The xb1 was fugly too but it was in a cute sort of way.

Scion is making the replacement models heavier, bigger, "more powerful". But the power isnt such a significant thing when you take into account the weight added.

If Scion did sell the IQ, i would think $13,500 would be the price.

The JDM bB isnt coming, we have what we have.

180hp + turbo 2.0 + $17,500 isnt going to happen. Maybe for $19,XXX but for more power, rwd and a turbo your not going to walk out of a scion dealership paying the same price as you would have for a fwd tC.

Granted id love to see these happen but its not logical.

killerxromances

personally id love to see smart-type cars under scion..

rwd two seater with 118hp weighing around 2,200lbs and starting around $17,500.

fwd 3 door with 105hp, weighing 2,150lbs and starting $15,500

fwd sedan with 120hp, weighing 2,400lbs starting at $15,500

and a small truck perhaps like the opendeck but slightly different, weighing 2,350lbs with 110hp about the same price as the sedan and 3dr.

To me thats what scion should be doing, making light/small cars that dont need much power to get up and go. They had that concept with the xb1 and xa, but killed that fast. The xD doesnt know what it is and the xb2 turned into a 4 door boxy pig.

greybox

I never said that one looked better or worse than the other as far as xB2, HHR and PT and I didn't say they look exactly the same but then again an Accord, Camry and Sonata don't look exactly the same either.

Quality-no doubt going to the Scion

Over in Japan there is some company that makes trucks out of 1st gen xB's-kinda the same as a subaru baja-cute but pretty ugly.

Personally I would want 1st gen body over Matrix 4wd drivetrain with Toyota Matrix XRS motor and tranny (160hp and 6 speeed).


IQ with 1.5 would be plenty quick and oh so cool.

Yaris 3 door, 128hp xD motor, lowered-wheels-exhaust, and rebadged as Scion with bucket seats out of tC and sunroof (with optional covertible coming later) that would be cool!

MoScion

What is the point of a turbo charged motor if you don't use it . The way I drive the best mileage I get in our first gen xB is 27mpg in mixed driving my wife on the other hand gets around 35 mpg.

MikeInABox

I have to wonder if those who say that have actually driven a new xB. I can't speak on the xD, cause I've never driven it. But the new xB is worlds apart power wise. It's most definitely significant. It feels as quick as my old 1.8T (150hp version) did stock, I ran a 15.3 stock in that. Feeling that fast (no clue what it would really run), and knowing a 1st gen runs what 17's in the 1/4, I don't know how anyone can say that the upped power isn't significant.

But I agree that it is a hog now weight wise, and obviously the gas mileage isn't as good. But it's not like they added a ton of weight and then only bumped it up 15hp making the increase in power in no way noticable.

killerxromances

ive seen a i/h/e/pully 1st gen run side by side with a xb2 stock. sure the xb1 had mods, but no boost was needed. Both were decent drivers, neither id say were good but equal in skill.

As far as track goes, the three videos and one story ive heard is 15.5-15.9, i cant say that those times are good, bad or average because quite honestly, don't keep up with the xb2 to really care nor do i keep up with drag times.

They added what, 500lbs? And added roughly 45hp?

Power to weight:
Xb1: 22.2
Xb2: 19.0
(based on hp not whp)

The xb would only need roughly 15hp more to have the same power to weight as the xb2, just something to think about when your talking about the differences of those two models. The 2az has more torque, yes, but a 2,400lbs car doesnt need as much torque as a 3,000+ car to have the same "effect".

Point being if scion continued making small light cars with small engines, your keeping mpg up without needing more power to have some fun. Plus cornering is much more fun in a modded lighter car.


Oh, and i have test driven the new xb for kicks...strongly disliked it.

Killface

My two cents.

The Scion RWD sports car for under $20,000 is not happening. The closest car on sale right now for that price is the Ford Mustang 4.0 V6 ($19,490), and thats only because it is saddled with a live-axle rear suspension, and has an old Ranger truck engine. The Mazda Miata ($20,585) and Pontiac Solstice ($22,165) come next, but both are basic models that don't even have air conditioning. I could see a scenario where the IS 250 platform could be used in something around $25,000, but that is VERY iffy.

And now for a more plausible idea. The tC should be replaced by two models, the first should be a smaller and lighter car than the current one. It should be powered by the 3ZR-FE (2.0L inline 4, 140 hp, 140 lb/ft), assuming that it can make US emissions standards (that engine is currently in the Voxy and Noah vehicles in Japan). The other vehicle should be slightly bigger than the current tC, but not huge. That car should have a 4GR-FSE engine (2.5L V6, 204 hp, the engine from the IS250), assuming it could fit. That car could also have RX-8 style rear doors on it. The second car could possibly be RWD, but it would be tough at a Scion price point. The first car would be around $15-17,000, and the second $20-22,000.

I also like the idea of selling the iQ as a Scion, it fits much better in it's line-up than Toyota's. Even the name could be carried over.

I don't have much of a solution to the xD and xB2 mess, except that the names seem backward to me. I mean the xD is the xB1's approximate size, and xD suggests a bigger car than the xA or xB1.

Anyway, enough... My hands are tired!

Zman

They should just bring back the Xb1 with a Corolla, Camry, or tC motor, now that would scoot with under 2,400lbs.

MikeInABox

No more like close to an extra 700 pounds lol.

For what the xB is, running mid to high 15's is pretty good. I'm surprised to hear a 1st gen with bolt ons running with a new one. That's awesome. Even with the weight advantage I'm impressed it had that much improvement from bolt-ons.

I guess for me the difference is if I had a 1st gen I wouldn't benefit from the great gas mileage. When I drove one it seemed like forever to get to 60. I would be flogging it all the time, where as in mine I shift at 3k all the time unless I'm having fun. Who knows how accurate the onboard mpg thing is, but my average is 27mpg, that's with only about 10% highway. I've never actually kept track on paper with fill up amounts and mileage. I don't worry too much about my gas mileage, but I'm happy.

And yeah, modded light cars are the shiz. I'll get back into that one day, but I needed a break from the fast car money pit.

13edge

Pretty good posts and ideas. However I still think 10K/30+mpg is the way to go. It can be done. A kaizen focused company like Toyota can definitely find a way to do it. If the IQ ever makes it here and sells for more than $11-12k, well... sorry, but there are better used deals. The dollar, and $4/gal gas will really start to dictate things. That's my opinion. The xB and xA are just OK for the current college kid, or recent graduate (and retiree apparently, as the trend has been... oh, and me). In a few months, those same people will be hating the price of gas, so by my way of thinking, the xB2, with worse mpgs, was the wrong way to go. And, like in prior economic crunches, used sales will go up, with people needing to get out from under a car payment, and shoppers getting good deals.

Any new car targeting youth will have to be cheap and efficient, yet still maintain all the creature features of the 2-3 year old used models on the market.

greybox

I couldn't agree more as far as the cost of gas and where people are heading. I was watching money market news etc on tv lasy night and a lot of the 'money experts' are actually starting to say this is a recession.

I work with people who have nice, new expensive to drive vehicles (trucks, suvs, etc) and I see them driving cars these days that are far below that level. One guy is driving a 71 Karman Ghia instead of his 3 year old dodge truck, another couple of guys are driving Geo Metros (beat to crap but cheap on gas)-it's crazy how many 80's geos and suzukis are starting to show up on the road.

As far as my contribution, all of the upgrades for power I have done make the air flow better so better mpg as well (with the excpetion of wider, stickier tires). There are days when I want a faster, quicker car that can accelerate better at highway speeds-but then I end up running around like last night on a wild goose chase for my GF and drove an extra 20 miles-that like $2-no big deal.

alfundo

iTrader: (2)

thanks for the visual but I already knew what they looked like. I suppose you also think Mr T and Bill Cosby look the same. If you ask me the original Scion XB more closely resembles the Mercedes G Class, which, BTW, also got rounder as it evolved.


perhaps someone forgot to tell the salesmen of the age requirements...or since I bought mine when I was a younger 39 year old I just made the cut. ;)

gjpjr84

i saw a scion predicted medium age range chart last week at the corp dinner thing i keep bragging about and actually anything below like 50 is in their market range for scion, lol and anything above is a super duper bonus

YourNameHere

the original target was like 18-30 wasnt it? i think after the 1st few years the average age was 32 which was the lowest out there...im sure its gone up now.

gjpjr84

they wanted an average that was lower then what they were getting with lexus and toyota, which was 50+

and they met and sometimes exceeded the goals they wanted with scion.