GM vs. Toyota: By the Numbers
12-22-2005, 12:32 PM
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GM vs. Toyota: By the Numbers
Now let's start off by saying that this is not a GM hater thread, nor is it an excuse to flame domestic cars, nor is it an attempt to gloat in anyway. This article is a good source of Toyota business numbers and how they stack up. It's a very interesting read if you follow Toyota as a company. . . or the automotive industry for that matter.
Taken from:
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmv...omparison.html
Taken from:
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmv...omparison.html
Originally Posted by www.npr.org
GM vs. Toyota: By the Numbers
by Diane Geng
Dec. 19, 2005 -- General Motors has been the world's No. 1 automaker since 1931. But GM's dominant position is eroding rapidly. Last year, Toyota surpassed Ford Motor Co. to become No. 2 in the global vehicle market. Some analysts predict Toyota will catch up to GM in two to three years. In November 2005, GM announced that over the next three years it plans to cut 30,000 jobs and reduce capacity by 30 percent from 2002 levels. We compare the global auto industry's two titans, with an emphasis on the U.S. and North American markets.
Vehicle Production Started in U.S.
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
1908
Toyota:
1986
Brands Sold in North America
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, HUMMER, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn
Toyota:
Toyota, Lexus, Scion, Hino
Best-Selling Vehicle in U.S.
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
Chevrolet Silverado
680,768 sold in 2004
Toyota:
Toyota Camry
426,990 sold in 2004
U.S. Sales in 2004
Source: Harbour Consulting & Toyota
GM:
4,655,459
Toyota:
2,060,049
U.S. Market Share
Source: First nine months of 2005, Harbour Consulting
GM:
26.8%
Toyota:
13%
Vehicle Production in North America 2004
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
5.2 million
Toyota:
1.44 million
Profitability per Vehicle
Source: 2005 Harbour Report
GM:
Loses $2,331 per vehicle
Toyota:
Makes $1,488 per vehicle
Net Income in the First 9 Months of 2005
Source: Harbour Consulting
GM:
$4.15 billion loss from North America operations off-set by profits in Europe and Asia for an overall loss of $3.8 billion
Toyota:
$7.89 billion (¥921.7 billion, converted at 116.81 yen to $1)
Number of Plants in North America
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
77, all unionized. Plans to close 12 facilities by 2008 (see press release).
Toyota:
12, three unionized in Long Beach, Calif., Fremont, Calif., and Tijuana, Mexico.
Average Plant Capacity Utilization
Source: Harbour Report 2005
GM:
85%
Toyota:
107% using overtime workers
Production Time per Vehicle
Source: 2005 Harbour Report
GM:
34.3 hours, 2.5% improvement since 2003
Toyota:
27.9 hours, 5.5% improvement since 2003
North American Workforce
Source: GM & Toyota, Dec. 2005
GM:
White collar: 36,000
Production: 106,000.
Retirees: 460,000
Toyota:
White collar: 17,000
Production: 21,000
Retirees: 1,600
Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker
Source: Center for Automotive Research
GM:
$31.35/hour
NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status.
Toyota:
$27/hour
NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.
Health Care Costs per Vehicle in 2004
Source: 2005 Harbour Report & A.T. Kearny Inc.
GM:
$1,525
Toyota:
$201
Average Labor Cost per U.S. Hourly Worker
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
$73.73
Toyota:
$48
Worldwide Sales in 2004
Source: Harbour Consulting
GM:
8.9 million
Toyota:
7.7 million
Global Market Share
Source: Automotive News annual ranking of the world's automakers by sales and production, figures for 2004
GM:
13.2%, down from 14.6% in 2002
Toyota:
10.9% up from 10.6% in 2002
Worldwide Vehicle Production Projected for 2005
Source: 2005 Harbour Report
GM:
9 million
Manufacturing operations in 32 countries, vehicles sold in 200 countries
Toyota:
8.4 million
Manufacturing operations in 26 countries and regions, vehicles sold in over 170 countries
by Diane Geng
Dec. 19, 2005 -- General Motors has been the world's No. 1 automaker since 1931. But GM's dominant position is eroding rapidly. Last year, Toyota surpassed Ford Motor Co. to become No. 2 in the global vehicle market. Some analysts predict Toyota will catch up to GM in two to three years. In November 2005, GM announced that over the next three years it plans to cut 30,000 jobs and reduce capacity by 30 percent from 2002 levels. We compare the global auto industry's two titans, with an emphasis on the U.S. and North American markets.
Vehicle Production Started in U.S.
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
1908
Toyota:
1986
Brands Sold in North America
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, HUMMER, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn
Toyota:
Toyota, Lexus, Scion, Hino
Best-Selling Vehicle in U.S.
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
Chevrolet Silverado
680,768 sold in 2004
Toyota:
Toyota Camry
426,990 sold in 2004
U.S. Sales in 2004
Source: Harbour Consulting & Toyota
GM:
4,655,459
Toyota:
2,060,049
U.S. Market Share
Source: First nine months of 2005, Harbour Consulting
GM:
26.8%
Toyota:
13%
Vehicle Production in North America 2004
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
5.2 million
Toyota:
1.44 million
Profitability per Vehicle
Source: 2005 Harbour Report
GM:
Loses $2,331 per vehicle
Toyota:
Makes $1,488 per vehicle
Net Income in the First 9 Months of 2005
Source: Harbour Consulting
GM:
$4.15 billion loss from North America operations off-set by profits in Europe and Asia for an overall loss of $3.8 billion
Toyota:
$7.89 billion (¥921.7 billion, converted at 116.81 yen to $1)
Number of Plants in North America
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
77, all unionized. Plans to close 12 facilities by 2008 (see press release).
Toyota:
12, three unionized in Long Beach, Calif., Fremont, Calif., and Tijuana, Mexico.
Average Plant Capacity Utilization
Source: Harbour Report 2005
GM:
85%
Toyota:
107% using overtime workers
Production Time per Vehicle
Source: 2005 Harbour Report
GM:
34.3 hours, 2.5% improvement since 2003
Toyota:
27.9 hours, 5.5% improvement since 2003
North American Workforce
Source: GM & Toyota, Dec. 2005
GM:
White collar: 36,000
Production: 106,000.
Retirees: 460,000
Toyota:
White collar: 17,000
Production: 21,000
Retirees: 1,600
Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker
Source: Center for Automotive Research
GM:
$31.35/hour
NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status.
Toyota:
$27/hour
NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.
Health Care Costs per Vehicle in 2004
Source: 2005 Harbour Report & A.T. Kearny Inc.
GM:
$1,525
Toyota:
$201
Average Labor Cost per U.S. Hourly Worker
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
$73.73
Toyota:
$48
Worldwide Sales in 2004
Source: Harbour Consulting
GM:
8.9 million
Toyota:
7.7 million
Global Market Share
Source: Automotive News annual ranking of the world's automakers by sales and production, figures for 2004
GM:
13.2%, down from 14.6% in 2002
Toyota:
10.9% up from 10.6% in 2002
Worldwide Vehicle Production Projected for 2005
Source: 2005 Harbour Report
GM:
9 million
Manufacturing operations in 32 countries, vehicles sold in 200 countries
Toyota:
8.4 million
Manufacturing operations in 26 countries and regions, vehicles sold in over 170 countries
12-22-2005, 03:08 PM
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This is the same problem that's hampering the big airlines these days: Retiree/Medical overhead. Pensions & health care cost the older companies more and more each year, and it's hurting them in the bottom line. That's why newer companies like Toyota, JetBlue, etc. have done so well recently.
12-23-2005, 07:05 AM
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Those numbers that show number of GM cars sold in the USA are inaccurate. I bet they are counting sales made by rental companies such as Hertz, Avis, etc. For example, I always hear about the Ford Taurus as being the 3rd bestselling car(after the Accord and Camry), but how many Taurus do you see in a day? Probably 1 a week, whereas I probably see 1 accord or camry every 2 minutes.
Cars purchased for rental car companies shouldn't be counted in the sales statistics.
Cars purchased for rental car companies shouldn't be counted in the sales statistics.
12-23-2005, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mofojordan
Those numbers that show number of GM cars sold in the USA are inaccurate. I bet they are counting sales made by rental companies such as Hertz, Avis, etc. For example, I always hear about the Ford Taurus as being the 3rd bestselling car(after the Accord and Camry), but how many Taurus do you see in a day? Probably 1 a week, whereas I probably see 1 accord or camry every 2 minutes.
Cars purchased for rental car companies shouldn't be counted in the sales statistics.
Cars purchased for rental car companies shouldn't be counted in the sales statistics.
Fleet sales matter because they drive profits. Why wouldn't you include them in a business analysis?
Furthermore, where do you live? I'm sure you're not going to see as many domestic makes in cities such as Los Angeles or New York, where import saturation is the highest. Go to Minot N. Dakota, and see if Camry's and Accords fill the landscape.
I love Toyota too, don't get me wrong. . . but does it bother you or something that the domestics outnumber the imports?
12-23-2005, 11:40 AM
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Rental car sales should count...it still generates a profit
GM is killing themselves because of retirees and their new cars are just sooooo bland(05 impala/monte carlo) or just plain ugly (aveo/malibu)
Each year they offer a bigger less fuel efficient engine...and they lag on exterior quality (except their truck line...silverados look nice)
just my 2 cent ;)
GM is killing themselves because of retirees and their new cars are just sooooo bland(05 impala/monte carlo) or just plain ugly (aveo/malibu)
Each year they offer a bigger less fuel efficient engine...and they lag on exterior quality (except their truck line...silverados look nice)
just my 2 cent ;)
12-23-2005, 01:33 PM
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That is a pretty good summary of the domestic problems. Paying laid off workers 85% pay forever and the huge medical/pension costs are killing their profits. Unfortunatly they signed the contract so you have to make it work until it runs out. Remeber GM had about double the employees as now 50 years ago. These people are our parents and grandparents who are now retiring and sadly for us dying. For GM it means in 20 years they will have far less retires/employees than they do now.
For the guy that suggested GMs gas mileage is that horrible go look up corperate mileage by vehicle class (car, light truck). You will see that for cars almost every company is within less than 2 mpg. Trucks have a far larger difference because Asian companies (especially Honda and Subaru who make all car based ones) tend to make more car based SUVs and American companies make more truck based ones.
For the guy that suggested GMs gas mileage is that horrible go look up corperate mileage by vehicle class (car, light truck). You will see that for cars almost every company is within less than 2 mpg. Trucks have a far larger difference because Asian companies (especially Honda and Subaru who make all car based ones) tend to make more car based SUVs and American companies make more truck based ones.
12-23-2005, 05:02 PM
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GM needs to STOP making such crappy cars. I drobe a Cobalt rental, and a Malibu. They were both horrible. Granted, they were rentals, but the quality of the materials in the cars was crud. The styling was bland, and the darn thins didn't even heat up right.
12-23-2005, 05:04 PM
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You know what really makes me laugh is all these Chevy is better than Toyota commercials. The one that's my favorite is when they stack an Equinox against a Lexus RX330, like they are even in the same freakin' class! 
A person who is out shopping for a RX330 doesn't have a Chevy anything on their radar. Other VS. commercials they have; Cobalt vs. Corolla, Malibu vs. Camry.
Come on Chevy just stop. Focus more money on actually making the Equinox, Cobalt & Malibu as reliable as their so-called Toyota counterparts before even thinking about comparing them.
A person who is out shopping for a RX330 doesn't have a Chevy anything on their radar. Other VS. commercials they have; Cobalt vs. Corolla, Malibu vs. Camry.
Come on Chevy just stop. Focus more money on actually making the Equinox, Cobalt & Malibu as reliable as their so-called Toyota counterparts before even thinking about comparing them.
12-23-2005, 05:33 PM
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Well, that article pretty much spells it all out in black & white. When you buy a GM product, you're paying for about a half million retired or laid-off workers' benefits.
That being said, however, the value of their products has nothing to do with their workers' benefits. If they built a car like the Camry, there wouldn't be anything worth discussing here. The cars would sell, and that's it. Actually, they do build a car that sells -- the Corvette.
Anyway there's nothing wrong with a lot of their products -- like Tahoe, Silverado, or any of their cousins -- but just like us over here at Toyota, the big stuff ain't moving fast.
Don't get me wrong -- we're selling the trucks and SUV's. After all, they don't call it Toyotathon for nothing. But here's the real deal. Banks and insurance companies and leasing companies love our line-up. Why? Two words. Residual value. It's what I tell my customers everyday. I don't make this stuff, and neither does your bank.
On the other hand, I'm over in Scion and I can count the number of cars I have available on one hand. So basically I'm telling people who come to see me, "Welcome to Scion, glad you're interested. Step this way and let me show you a Tundra."
RL Sterling
Scion of Lewisville
PS Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone everywhere.
That being said, however, the value of their products has nothing to do with their workers' benefits. If they built a car like the Camry, there wouldn't be anything worth discussing here. The cars would sell, and that's it. Actually, they do build a car that sells -- the Corvette.
Anyway there's nothing wrong with a lot of their products -- like Tahoe, Silverado, or any of their cousins -- but just like us over here at Toyota, the big stuff ain't moving fast.
Don't get me wrong -- we're selling the trucks and SUV's. After all, they don't call it Toyotathon for nothing. But here's the real deal. Banks and insurance companies and leasing companies love our line-up. Why? Two words. Residual value. It's what I tell my customers everyday. I don't make this stuff, and neither does your bank.
On the other hand, I'm over in Scion and I can count the number of cars I have available on one hand. So basically I'm telling people who come to see me, "Welcome to Scion, glad you're interested. Step this way and let me show you a Tundra."
RL Sterling
Scion of Lewisville
PS Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone everywhere.
12-24-2005, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by smokeydog001
Looking at the future, IMHO, Hyundai poses a bigger threat to Toyota than GM ever did.
The real underdog to worry about is China. They have the resources to out-produce and to undercut everyone's price. It's only a question of how fast they can learn to build cars. And at the rate they're going at. . .
Its been my lifelong dream to own a Chinese automobile! i can only hope it is as good as the Yugo.
12-24-2005, 12:55 PM
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12-28-2005, 01:25 AM
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Great info. GM is a dinosaur; it is on the path to extinction. Paying Fiat $2 billion to get out from under that partnership didn't help their cause any, either. Smooth move!
BTW, if you like chronicling GM's ultimate demise, check out The Truth About Cars (dot com). Lots of in-depth coverage of the General's many, many missteps. For instance, guess how much CEO Rick Wagoner makes to fail miserably--and publicly!--at his job by losing $2300 per vehicle?? Answer: More than you or me.
BTW, if you like chronicling GM's ultimate demise, check out The Truth About Cars (dot com). Lots of in-depth coverage of the General's many, many missteps. For instance, guess how much CEO Rick Wagoner makes to fail miserably--and publicly!--at his job by losing $2300 per vehicle?? Answer: More than you or me.
12-28-2005, 02:21 AM
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I dont think GM is going away but they sure will be smaller. They have made some very poor choices in the past and paid big for it too. Nobody wants Fiat why would you buy part of them? Then to make it even worse they could force GM to buy the rest or pay huge to get out of it later. In the end if cost several billion to get into it and 2 more to get our of it. I cant figure out getting huge bonuses for making choices like that. Those people should be paid based on perfomance. Company does great you get huge pay in company stock. They do bad you get nothing or large amounts of worthless stock. If that doesnt motivate you to get things turned around then nothing will.
12-28-2005, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by emiller
I dont think GM is going away but they sure will be smaller. They have made some very poor choices in the past and paid big for it too. Nobody wants Fiat why would you buy part of them? Then to make it even worse they could force GM to buy the rest or pay huge to get out of it later. In the end if cost several billion to get into it and 2 more to get our of it. I cant figure out getting huge bonuses for making choices like that. Those people should be paid based on perfomance. Company does great you get huge pay in company stock. They do bad you get nothing or large amounts of worthless stock. If that doesnt motivate you to get things turned around then nothing will.
12-28-2005, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by djct_watt
Originally Posted by emiller
I dont think GM is going away but they sure will be smaller. They have made some very poor choices in the past and paid big for it too. Nobody wants Fiat why would you buy part of them? Then to make it even worse they could force GM to buy the rest or pay huge to get out of it later. In the end if cost several billion to get into it and 2 more to get our of it. I cant figure out getting huge bonuses for making choices like that. Those people should be paid based on perfomance. Company does great you get huge pay in company stock. They do bad you get nothing or large amounts of worthless stock. If that doesnt motivate you to get things turned around then nothing will.