AUTO BODY / PAINT FAQs...
03-13-2007, 09:11 PM
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AUTO BODY / PAINT FAQs...
I got really bored and figured I'd take some time to write up a nice FAQ for those with general questions about autobody/paint. I wrote one up on another forum I've been on for over 5 years now, but figured I'd custom tailor one for Scionlife since it seems there are some different types of questions being asked between the two forums. I did auto body and paint for 6 years, and had one car that I'd painted featured in 2 small domestic magazines, and is used as an example of a specialty paint from Alsa Corp on the corporate web site. (If you go to Alsa Corp's site, click on paint additives, spectra fx, and then click on one of the pictures to go to the "show", and on the second page, 2nd car down is a blue/green chamelion sunfire I painted...)
Table of contents:
I. Basic Questions and faqs
II. Body work
III. Paint
I think this would make a good sticky so it's easily accessable to anyone asking questions in the exterior forum(s), so if anyone agrees and if there's something I need to do in order to do so, please let me know
***NOTE*** this is a general guide, any numbers used are not necessarily direct reflections of actual numerical values involved, some are just numbers randomly generated in my mind used for examples.
I hope this information is useful/helpful.
I. The Basics
1. What to look for when looking for a good shop, and when to walk away
When you are looking for a shop to get body or paint work done, whether it be collision repair or putting on a body kit, etc... there are several factors to take into consideration.
First, ask around. Ask people you know, or people you see if they've had any experience with shops in your area, reccomendations, etc. See if the shop you are checking out has any examples of their work. Some won't, and just because they might not have pictures available doesn't mean they are a bad shop.
Second and most important, MAKE SURE THE SHOP WILL GUARANTEE THEIR WORK!! If the shop will not guarantee their work (i.e. against any defects in their work or prep work, rock chips are normal wear and tear and are not warrantied), if they will not guarantee their work, turn around and walk out.
When dealing with an insurance company, many insurance companies have "preferred shops" where they send their work to. There is nothing wrong necessarily with a shop like this, as the insurance company will stand behind the work the shop does. IF the shop messes up, they will fix it for nothing. Also note that in most cases you have the choice to go to any shop you want... you're not tied to a shop recommended by your (or another) insurance company. I can't say for certain the laws as they vary by state, but typically that's the way it works.
2. How much will my work cost?
Estimates cannot really be given on the internet or on a computer, as there are many factors that go into what any body work or paint will cost. One being the area you live in, as rates vary by area. Another factor is the shop itself. Maaco is not a "high quality shop". There are some that argue they've gotten work done at a Maaco and it was great, but from my personal experiences from cars brought into shops I've worked at that had work done at Maaco, well you get what you pay for. Another of course is the type of work you're getting done. Is it highly custom work? Or just general stuff? (factors will be covered in more detail later on)
Your best bet for an accurate estimate is to get up and go to shops in your area and get some estimates. The general rule of thumb is:
You get what you pay for. If you want to cheap out on what you spend, odds are you're going to get cheap work that doesn't last. Save up the extra money and go for quality.
3. Quality of parts
If you get a cheap fiberglass kit, it's going to end up probably costing more in the long run to have your work done, versus spending the extra money and getting a higher quality kit that fits better. The more work the shop has to do to get your kit to line up right and fix imperfections, the more it's going to cost you in the long run. The better quality of parts you get, the easier it is on the shop, thus saving you money in the long run.
4. Unexpected problems for the shop
There are circumstances for example, you get into an accident. You get an estimate for the repairs that is x amount of money. The shop tears apart the car and finds more problems... which equals more money. The same can apply to getting a body kit installed for example. Everything may look fine, but say the shop tears apart the car and finds it was in an accident beforehand and was half arsed when "fixed". This could also equal more money in the long run. While this is not very common, it does happen, so just be aware of the possibilities.
5. For a more accurate estimate, tell the shop what you are looking for
And by that I don't mean research and tell the shop how to do their job. I don't think you'd like it much if someone came into your place of work, not having the training you do, and telling you how to do your job. What I mean by this is tell them what you are expecting or wanting from the work.
If you just want a simple repaint, tell them. If you just want your kit painted, tell them. If you want your car to turn out show quality with NO imperfections whatsoever, and want everything torn apart for say, a color change... wires, windows, etc... tell them. You're going to pay more for show quality then "just to look good", but it's all in what you are paying them for.
6. "Garages vs. shops"
I've seen some awesome work come out of someone's home garage. While in many places this is not a legal setup, it doesn't mean that you're going to get crappy quality from a shop that's not "state of the art". I've seen crappy work come out of "state of the art shops", which again boils down to what I covered in #1, do your research and ask around... and make sure there is a written guarantee on the work!!!
7. I wrecked my car, is it totalled?
myth: if the airbags go off, it's totalled
NOT TRUE. Insurance companies typically total a car in a manner similar to this:
$ of damage compared to value of the vehicle. If the damage$ is greater than or equal to X percentage of the value of the vehicle, it is declared totalled.
Typically, the "totaled value" is around 80%, but this varies by insurance company, state, etc. So if insurance company A's totaled rate is 80%, and your car is worth $10,000, and your damage is $8,000 or greater... your car is totaled. This has nothing to do with whether or not your airbags deployed or not... although they will add a bit of cost to your repair bill.
II. BODY WORK
1. Ok, so why can't I just have someone tell me how to do the work online and do it myself to save some money?
Auto body and paint can't be taught over the internet. While it may seem like simple work to some, and while some may think the work is simple, it does require hands on training to know what to do and how to do it PROPERLY. There are many things that need to be known when getting into body work, even more so with paint (which will be covered in the next section).
For example, many don't realize that by "auto body standards", you are to have no more than 1/4" of body filler (remember, Bondo is a brand name not what it's called) when doing repair work? You can't just glob on body filler to fill a 3" dent, you need to know how to work the metal to get it as close to "stock" as possible, using minimal amounts of filler just to smooth out the surface. There are different brands, and personally I do NOT recommend the "Bondo" brand, Evercoat is much better.
Plus when you get into body work, you're not just LOOKING at it to be smooth, you have to know what you're feeling for also. You need to be able to detect minimal surface differences/high spots/low spots by feel, not just sight. Seems simple enough, but unless you know how to detect minor surface differences on curved and irregular surfaces, you may not see the imperfections until it's too late.
If you want to learn, find a good school or see if a shop in your area will bring you in as a "helper" and teach you some things if you want to learn how to do it properly. Sure if you're ambitious you can pick up a beater car, get some books and start practicing, but you're not likely to get as good at it as if you actually got hands on training from people who are skilled and have the proper knowledge.
2. Can I just do the body work myself and bring it to the shop for paint to save some money?
Personally, I'd never touch a car that someone else worked on without stripping everything down and redoing it myself. I learned that lesson the hard way before... this guy brought in a car he worked on, and I had to strip and redo all the work because it wasn't done right. Best bet, ask the shop... but don't be surprised if they will not offer a warranty on the work because you did your own work on it. How are they to know if you did the work proplerly or not? They can't guarantee work done by someone else... but ask them if they'd mind. Some shops won't mind, but most will... so ask them first.
3. Molding in body kits, pros and cons
Some things to consider:
Is my car a daily driver? If your car is a daily driver, I'd reccomend AGAINST molding in body kits or other panels. No matter what you do, when you're "molding" things in, it's never as strong of a bond as you'd get if it was all one piece (self explanatory really). That part in between say, your rear bumper and 1/4 panels that you mold in, that is going to be a weaker spot than your actual quarter panel... especially since you're "molding" metal to either plastic or fiberglass. While proper techniques will be more durable than "cutting corners", it's no guarantee. If you don't mind the possibility of hitting something and cracking the area where the panels are bonded and having to have everything repainted just to repair it, then go ahead. If you do mind, then consider getting a beater car and limiting your driving on your newly molded in car. Remember, every part of your car that is "molded" into another part of your car, when one part is damaged every piece that was "molded" into one piece has to be repainted... you can't just stop painting in the middle of a quarter panel. (explained in the paint section)
Pros, it looks nice and clean and some say "flows" better. Some don't like the look, some do... but just take a minute and think about some things before you jump into something like that. If you think it's for you, find a good shop and good luck!
4. "Bondo"
As mentioned, Bondo is a name brand of body filler, and usually not recommended by professionals. Evercoat is a good brand, and there are others as well. But don't get "Bondo" confused with "body filler".
Also as mentioned, body filler should not be used to fill dents. It is not to be used liberally in body repair or custom work... and should not be used any thicker on anything such as that than 1/4" at most.
5. Paintless Dent Removal vs. body work and paint, scratches, etc
Paintless Dent Removal (PDR) does not work for every type of dent. Odds are, any dent that has a crease/line in it will not fully pop out with PDR. The more "evenly curved" a dent is, the higher the odds of PDR being a good cost effective option.
If you have a dent which is creased, or gouged... odds are you're going to have to have a body shop strip the paint, pull the dent out as far as possible, fill as needed and repaint that panel where the dent(s) are located.
Scratches: the general rule of thumb for scratches is "If you can run your fingernail across the scratch (not WITH the scratch, ACROSS it) and your nail catches, odds are the scratch is too deep to get out with buffing, or wet sanding and buffing... and probably would need repainted to be gotten rid of." This is not 100% true, but generally it holds truth. Some scratches can be made "invisible" with compounds and buffing, some require wet sanding, some need repainting.
And for gosh sakes, if you have a scratch that is down to the metal, get it taken care of ASAP! The longer you leave metal exposed, the worse it's going to rust and be more expensive in the long run. Touch up paint will work for a while, but for 100% (or 99.999%) elimination of the possibility of rust... get it taken care of as soon as possible.
III. PAINT
1. ORANGE PEEL IS NORMAL!!!!
I am surprised by how many people believe that orange peel is a paint defect. (Orange peel is defined by the texture appearance of clear coat, having the look of the texture of an orange... self explanitory). Go to any car lot and look at a brand new car... there is orange peel on every one of them. The only way to "get rid" of it is to throw on a couple of extra layers of clear and wetsand all of the orange peel out. This is not recommended for anyone to try at home without proper training, if you wet sand too far into the clear, you can go into your base coat and then you have to have that panel repainted.
Now, too much orange peel after having custom or repair work done isn't a good thing... it doesn't hurt anything, but just doesn't look good. Any reputable shop will try to match their repair work with the factory orange peel so that it looks like it was never repainted.
2. More coats of paint does NOT equal a better paint job
Back in the old days of painting, the more coats of paint you put on a car the better it usually was. This was back in the day of lacquer based paints, which have since been outlawed in the US for environmental reasons. Old lacquer paints cured by evaporating, leaking harmful gases into the atmosphere. Paints used today are typically more of a "urethane" based paint... to explain it briefly without getting into too much technical jargin that won't make any sense to anyone not trained in teh industry. Paints today don't "evaporate", they cure over time. Modern clear coats have "pores" in them too small for the human eye to see, which lets the paint "breathe" so to speak, which is why it's not recommended to wax your car for some time after painting (explained below).
Anyone that comes up to you and says something like "hey yo, I gots 14 coats of base and 16 coats of clear on my ride... it'd be mad pimpin yo... for shizzle" (or something like that)... laugh at them and know in your mind they are full of crap. Think of modern paints like a sheet of plastic.
You have a thin sheet of plastic... it's plyable, bendable... and you can bend and flex that plastic a bit before it cracks.
Now take a thicker piece of that same type of plastic. Doesn't bend as much, and doesn't give much at all until it snaps.
That's how paint works. more coats doesn't equal better. The thicker you have your paint on, the higher chances you have of your paint spidering (cracks in the paint that look similar to a spiderweb), cracking, chipping... etc. The less paint you can get away with, typically the longer it will last.
3. Painting is so easy, why can't I just do it with help from words on the internet?
Sure, any monkey can put paint in a spray gun and start spraying... but it takes a lot of training to do it PROPERLY and know how to fix any imperfections that arise. Here are just some of the things and technical knowledge required to paint, some more difficult than others:
-with basecoat... do you know what your mix ratios mean? most are simple, but depending on what you're doing depends on whether or not you have to alter them or not.
- do you know how to fix fish eyes if you get them? (little marks in the paint that look like a fish's eyes) Do you know what causes them? How do you prevent them or fix them when/if they occur?
- what do you do if your paint "lifts" (i.e. doesn't stick to the surface you are painting)
- do you know how to adjust your fan pattern on your spray gun, and do you know when to adjust your fan pattern and what factors determine this?
- do you know when to alter your psi that you're spraying with your gun?
- do you know when to use different spray patterns and when you don't need to worrry about them? Did you know that when you're spraying metallics and pearls you need to use different spray patterns than for a solid flat color with no pearls or metallics? What do you do if your pearls in your paint are "tiger striping"? Did you also know that just because the metallics look odd before clear, doesn't mean you're necessarily spraying wrong?
- overlap patterns... for different types of paints and clears, you use different overlap patterns when you're spraying. Say your fan pattern at 10" from a car's surface is 8"... a 50% overlap means thet next time you spray on that panel, or the next line you spray, you overlap 50% or 4" of the previous line you sprayed with the one you're doing currently. Some paints are 75%, 33%,... then throw in some metallics or specialty paints and you're not only altering your overlap %, but also your spray patterns. Not only are you overlapping 60% (for example), you're also altering spraying left to right, to up and down, to diagonally both ways, etc.
- clear coats. there's different speeds of hardners for clears... do you know which ones to use? If you're doing a whole car you might want to use a extra slow hardner on a really hot dry day, but doing that same car when it's colder you may only want to use a medium... how big is the surface you're spraying, etc... all goes into play when you're spraying. Too slow of a hardner and your clear can run, too fast and you'll get dry spots, or more of a "matte" instead of "glossy" finish.
Those are just some of the things that go into play when thinking about painting.
4. Why is a color change more expensive?
Because typically on a color change, you're not just painting the outside of your car, you're painting under the hood, engine bay, insides of teh doors, door jams, under the trunk/hatch, in the trunk/hatch"jam", etc. A ton more work, a bit more money.
5. Paint matching, blending, etc
Not so much on newer cars, but sometimes you need to blend your paint. This is not something that is as simple as it seems at times also. There's different techniques and things to take into consideration when spraying, but any shop will know what they're doing (well MOST anyway lol).
Does your particular job need blending? Maybe, maybe not. Whites believe it or not, tend to fade fast and stain very easily. You may not notice this because it happens gradually, but even scanning your paint code sometimes isn't enough to avoid blending. If you're not concerned of a minimal difference in paint shades, ok. If you don't want to be able to tell it was repainted, it might be an option. Let the shop decide... tell them what you want and go from there. If you tell them you want your newly installed kit to match perfectly, then they must do that. If it requires blending, that's what they have to do. If they say they can match perfectly without blending, you pay them for that, but it doesn't totally match, they have to redo it (if you've gone to a shop that guarantees their work) on their dime.
You also can't just paint... say 1/2 of a quarter panel. Paint thickness is measured in microns, and say your stock paint is 6 microns thick. That half you painted, is now 12 microns thick, whereas the other half is only 6. The paint surface will be uneven, and the only way to even it out is to basically sand the entire area of paint that you jsut painted... off. That's why you can't really just break up your paint on the same panel, and need to repaint the whole thing. When blending, you're not really repainting the whole panel, the panel you're blending into is paint blended on that part closest to the repair panel, and the other half is just recleared. For example:
You replace your rear bumper, but the quarters are fine and needed no repair work in your accident. You paint the bumper, but need to blend into the quarters because you can't get the paint to match perfectly. The rear 1/3 (give or take) of your quarter panels that are touching your rear bumper get new paint on them, blended into the existing paint, whereas the other part of your quarters just get recleared.
6. Rattle can paint is the devil!!!
... on exteriors anyway. Interiors they're fine, but whatever you do, don't rattle can your new bumper or kit. Rattle can paint doesn't really dry in the same way auto paint does... it technically doesn't really "dry" at all. If it did, it'd dry up in the can and you wouldn't be able to use it after a short period of time. It's dry to the touch maybe, but it doesn't really dry on your car. When you bring your car into the shop with rattle can paint, it's going to be much harder for teh shop to remove and cause them more of a headache.
We had a truck come into the shop with a 2 1/2" deep dent (totally filled in with body filler... big no no) and rattle can "factory paint" over the "fixed" surface. I LITERALLY went through FIVE... yes FIVE GRINDER DISCS just to get the paint off!!!! The rattle can paint gummed up really bad and took 5 grinder discs to get off.... not to mention all the body filler under that. I wasn't happy.
7. How long until I can wax my car after paint?
To be on the safe side, wait at least 90 days until waxing your fresh paint. Some will say sooner, but to be safe, wait 90 days before a good wax. If you wax too early and your base coat isn't fully cleared, your clear coat will cloud and get foggy... causing you to need a repaint later on, which will most likely not be covererd by a warranty.
Table of contents:
I. Basic Questions and faqs
II. Body work
III. Paint
I think this would make a good sticky so it's easily accessable to anyone asking questions in the exterior forum(s), so if anyone agrees and if there's something I need to do in order to do so, please let me know
***NOTE*** this is a general guide, any numbers used are not necessarily direct reflections of actual numerical values involved, some are just numbers randomly generated in my mind used for examples.
I hope this information is useful/helpful.
I. The Basics
1. What to look for when looking for a good shop, and when to walk away
When you are looking for a shop to get body or paint work done, whether it be collision repair or putting on a body kit, etc... there are several factors to take into consideration.
First, ask around. Ask people you know, or people you see if they've had any experience with shops in your area, reccomendations, etc. See if the shop you are checking out has any examples of their work. Some won't, and just because they might not have pictures available doesn't mean they are a bad shop.
Second and most important, MAKE SURE THE SHOP WILL GUARANTEE THEIR WORK!! If the shop will not guarantee their work (i.e. against any defects in their work or prep work, rock chips are normal wear and tear and are not warrantied), if they will not guarantee their work, turn around and walk out.
When dealing with an insurance company, many insurance companies have "preferred shops" where they send their work to. There is nothing wrong necessarily with a shop like this, as the insurance company will stand behind the work the shop does. IF the shop messes up, they will fix it for nothing. Also note that in most cases you have the choice to go to any shop you want... you're not tied to a shop recommended by your (or another) insurance company. I can't say for certain the laws as they vary by state, but typically that's the way it works.
2. How much will my work cost?
Estimates cannot really be given on the internet or on a computer, as there are many factors that go into what any body work or paint will cost. One being the area you live in, as rates vary by area. Another factor is the shop itself. Maaco is not a "high quality shop". There are some that argue they've gotten work done at a Maaco and it was great, but from my personal experiences from cars brought into shops I've worked at that had work done at Maaco, well you get what you pay for. Another of course is the type of work you're getting done. Is it highly custom work? Or just general stuff? (factors will be covered in more detail later on)
Your best bet for an accurate estimate is to get up and go to shops in your area and get some estimates. The general rule of thumb is:
You get what you pay for. If you want to cheap out on what you spend, odds are you're going to get cheap work that doesn't last. Save up the extra money and go for quality.
3. Quality of parts
If you get a cheap fiberglass kit, it's going to end up probably costing more in the long run to have your work done, versus spending the extra money and getting a higher quality kit that fits better. The more work the shop has to do to get your kit to line up right and fix imperfections, the more it's going to cost you in the long run. The better quality of parts you get, the easier it is on the shop, thus saving you money in the long run.
4. Unexpected problems for the shop
There are circumstances for example, you get into an accident. You get an estimate for the repairs that is x amount of money. The shop tears apart the car and finds more problems... which equals more money. The same can apply to getting a body kit installed for example. Everything may look fine, but say the shop tears apart the car and finds it was in an accident beforehand and was half arsed when "fixed". This could also equal more money in the long run. While this is not very common, it does happen, so just be aware of the possibilities.
5. For a more accurate estimate, tell the shop what you are looking for
And by that I don't mean research and tell the shop how to do their job. I don't think you'd like it much if someone came into your place of work, not having the training you do, and telling you how to do your job. What I mean by this is tell them what you are expecting or wanting from the work.
If you just want a simple repaint, tell them. If you just want your kit painted, tell them. If you want your car to turn out show quality with NO imperfections whatsoever, and want everything torn apart for say, a color change... wires, windows, etc... tell them. You're going to pay more for show quality then "just to look good", but it's all in what you are paying them for.
6. "Garages vs. shops"
I've seen some awesome work come out of someone's home garage. While in many places this is not a legal setup, it doesn't mean that you're going to get crappy quality from a shop that's not "state of the art". I've seen crappy work come out of "state of the art shops", which again boils down to what I covered in #1, do your research and ask around... and make sure there is a written guarantee on the work!!!
7. I wrecked my car, is it totalled?
myth: if the airbags go off, it's totalled
NOT TRUE. Insurance companies typically total a car in a manner similar to this:
$ of damage compared to value of the vehicle. If the damage$ is greater than or equal to X percentage of the value of the vehicle, it is declared totalled.
Typically, the "totaled value" is around 80%, but this varies by insurance company, state, etc. So if insurance company A's totaled rate is 80%, and your car is worth $10,000, and your damage is $8,000 or greater... your car is totaled. This has nothing to do with whether or not your airbags deployed or not... although they will add a bit of cost to your repair bill.
II. BODY WORK
1. Ok, so why can't I just have someone tell me how to do the work online and do it myself to save some money?
Auto body and paint can't be taught over the internet. While it may seem like simple work to some, and while some may think the work is simple, it does require hands on training to know what to do and how to do it PROPERLY. There are many things that need to be known when getting into body work, even more so with paint (which will be covered in the next section).
For example, many don't realize that by "auto body standards", you are to have no more than 1/4" of body filler (remember, Bondo is a brand name not what it's called) when doing repair work? You can't just glob on body filler to fill a 3" dent, you need to know how to work the metal to get it as close to "stock" as possible, using minimal amounts of filler just to smooth out the surface. There are different brands, and personally I do NOT recommend the "Bondo" brand, Evercoat is much better.
Plus when you get into body work, you're not just LOOKING at it to be smooth, you have to know what you're feeling for also. You need to be able to detect minimal surface differences/high spots/low spots by feel, not just sight. Seems simple enough, but unless you know how to detect minor surface differences on curved and irregular surfaces, you may not see the imperfections until it's too late.
If you want to learn, find a good school or see if a shop in your area will bring you in as a "helper" and teach you some things if you want to learn how to do it properly. Sure if you're ambitious you can pick up a beater car, get some books and start practicing, but you're not likely to get as good at it as if you actually got hands on training from people who are skilled and have the proper knowledge.
2. Can I just do the body work myself and bring it to the shop for paint to save some money?
Personally, I'd never touch a car that someone else worked on without stripping everything down and redoing it myself. I learned that lesson the hard way before... this guy brought in a car he worked on, and I had to strip and redo all the work because it wasn't done right. Best bet, ask the shop... but don't be surprised if they will not offer a warranty on the work because you did your own work on it. How are they to know if you did the work proplerly or not? They can't guarantee work done by someone else... but ask them if they'd mind. Some shops won't mind, but most will... so ask them first.
3. Molding in body kits, pros and cons
Some things to consider:
Is my car a daily driver? If your car is a daily driver, I'd reccomend AGAINST molding in body kits or other panels. No matter what you do, when you're "molding" things in, it's never as strong of a bond as you'd get if it was all one piece (self explanatory really). That part in between say, your rear bumper and 1/4 panels that you mold in, that is going to be a weaker spot than your actual quarter panel... especially since you're "molding" metal to either plastic or fiberglass. While proper techniques will be more durable than "cutting corners", it's no guarantee. If you don't mind the possibility of hitting something and cracking the area where the panels are bonded and having to have everything repainted just to repair it, then go ahead. If you do mind, then consider getting a beater car and limiting your driving on your newly molded in car. Remember, every part of your car that is "molded" into another part of your car, when one part is damaged every piece that was "molded" into one piece has to be repainted... you can't just stop painting in the middle of a quarter panel. (explained in the paint section)
Pros, it looks nice and clean and some say "flows" better. Some don't like the look, some do... but just take a minute and think about some things before you jump into something like that. If you think it's for you, find a good shop and good luck!
4. "Bondo"
As mentioned, Bondo is a name brand of body filler, and usually not recommended by professionals. Evercoat is a good brand, and there are others as well. But don't get "Bondo" confused with "body filler".
Also as mentioned, body filler should not be used to fill dents. It is not to be used liberally in body repair or custom work... and should not be used any thicker on anything such as that than 1/4" at most.
5. Paintless Dent Removal vs. body work and paint, scratches, etc
Paintless Dent Removal (PDR) does not work for every type of dent. Odds are, any dent that has a crease/line in it will not fully pop out with PDR. The more "evenly curved" a dent is, the higher the odds of PDR being a good cost effective option.
If you have a dent which is creased, or gouged... odds are you're going to have to have a body shop strip the paint, pull the dent out as far as possible, fill as needed and repaint that panel where the dent(s) are located.
Scratches: the general rule of thumb for scratches is "If you can run your fingernail across the scratch (not WITH the scratch, ACROSS it) and your nail catches, odds are the scratch is too deep to get out with buffing, or wet sanding and buffing... and probably would need repainted to be gotten rid of." This is not 100% true, but generally it holds truth. Some scratches can be made "invisible" with compounds and buffing, some require wet sanding, some need repainting.
And for gosh sakes, if you have a scratch that is down to the metal, get it taken care of ASAP! The longer you leave metal exposed, the worse it's going to rust and be more expensive in the long run. Touch up paint will work for a while, but for 100% (or 99.999%) elimination of the possibility of rust... get it taken care of as soon as possible.
III. PAINT
1. ORANGE PEEL IS NORMAL!!!!
I am surprised by how many people believe that orange peel is a paint defect. (Orange peel is defined by the texture appearance of clear coat, having the look of the texture of an orange... self explanitory). Go to any car lot and look at a brand new car... there is orange peel on every one of them. The only way to "get rid" of it is to throw on a couple of extra layers of clear and wetsand all of the orange peel out. This is not recommended for anyone to try at home without proper training, if you wet sand too far into the clear, you can go into your base coat and then you have to have that panel repainted.
Now, too much orange peel after having custom or repair work done isn't a good thing... it doesn't hurt anything, but just doesn't look good. Any reputable shop will try to match their repair work with the factory orange peel so that it looks like it was never repainted.
2. More coats of paint does NOT equal a better paint job
Back in the old days of painting, the more coats of paint you put on a car the better it usually was. This was back in the day of lacquer based paints, which have since been outlawed in the US for environmental reasons. Old lacquer paints cured by evaporating, leaking harmful gases into the atmosphere. Paints used today are typically more of a "urethane" based paint... to explain it briefly without getting into too much technical jargin that won't make any sense to anyone not trained in teh industry. Paints today don't "evaporate", they cure over time. Modern clear coats have "pores" in them too small for the human eye to see, which lets the paint "breathe" so to speak, which is why it's not recommended to wax your car for some time after painting (explained below).
Anyone that comes up to you and says something like "hey yo, I gots 14 coats of base and 16 coats of clear on my ride... it'd be mad pimpin yo... for shizzle" (or something like that)... laugh at them and know in your mind they are full of crap. Think of modern paints like a sheet of plastic.
You have a thin sheet of plastic... it's plyable, bendable... and you can bend and flex that plastic a bit before it cracks.
Now take a thicker piece of that same type of plastic. Doesn't bend as much, and doesn't give much at all until it snaps.
That's how paint works. more coats doesn't equal better. The thicker you have your paint on, the higher chances you have of your paint spidering (cracks in the paint that look similar to a spiderweb), cracking, chipping... etc. The less paint you can get away with, typically the longer it will last.
3. Painting is so easy, why can't I just do it with help from words on the internet?
Sure, any monkey can put paint in a spray gun and start spraying... but it takes a lot of training to do it PROPERLY and know how to fix any imperfections that arise. Here are just some of the things and technical knowledge required to paint, some more difficult than others:
-with basecoat... do you know what your mix ratios mean? most are simple, but depending on what you're doing depends on whether or not you have to alter them or not.
- do you know how to fix fish eyes if you get them? (little marks in the paint that look like a fish's eyes) Do you know what causes them? How do you prevent them or fix them when/if they occur?
- what do you do if your paint "lifts" (i.e. doesn't stick to the surface you are painting)
- do you know how to adjust your fan pattern on your spray gun, and do you know when to adjust your fan pattern and what factors determine this?
- do you know when to alter your psi that you're spraying with your gun?
- do you know when to use different spray patterns and when you don't need to worrry about them? Did you know that when you're spraying metallics and pearls you need to use different spray patterns than for a solid flat color with no pearls or metallics? What do you do if your pearls in your paint are "tiger striping"? Did you also know that just because the metallics look odd before clear, doesn't mean you're necessarily spraying wrong?
- overlap patterns... for different types of paints and clears, you use different overlap patterns when you're spraying. Say your fan pattern at 10" from a car's surface is 8"... a 50% overlap means thet next time you spray on that panel, or the next line you spray, you overlap 50% or 4" of the previous line you sprayed with the one you're doing currently. Some paints are 75%, 33%,... then throw in some metallics or specialty paints and you're not only altering your overlap %, but also your spray patterns. Not only are you overlapping 60% (for example), you're also altering spraying left to right, to up and down, to diagonally both ways, etc.
- clear coats. there's different speeds of hardners for clears... do you know which ones to use? If you're doing a whole car you might want to use a extra slow hardner on a really hot dry day, but doing that same car when it's colder you may only want to use a medium... how big is the surface you're spraying, etc... all goes into play when you're spraying. Too slow of a hardner and your clear can run, too fast and you'll get dry spots, or more of a "matte" instead of "glossy" finish.
Those are just some of the things that go into play when thinking about painting.
4. Why is a color change more expensive?
Because typically on a color change, you're not just painting the outside of your car, you're painting under the hood, engine bay, insides of teh doors, door jams, under the trunk/hatch, in the trunk/hatch"jam", etc. A ton more work, a bit more money.
5. Paint matching, blending, etc
Not so much on newer cars, but sometimes you need to blend your paint. This is not something that is as simple as it seems at times also. There's different techniques and things to take into consideration when spraying, but any shop will know what they're doing (well MOST anyway lol).
Does your particular job need blending? Maybe, maybe not. Whites believe it or not, tend to fade fast and stain very easily. You may not notice this because it happens gradually, but even scanning your paint code sometimes isn't enough to avoid blending. If you're not concerned of a minimal difference in paint shades, ok. If you don't want to be able to tell it was repainted, it might be an option. Let the shop decide... tell them what you want and go from there. If you tell them you want your newly installed kit to match perfectly, then they must do that. If it requires blending, that's what they have to do. If they say they can match perfectly without blending, you pay them for that, but it doesn't totally match, they have to redo it (if you've gone to a shop that guarantees their work) on their dime.
You also can't just paint... say 1/2 of a quarter panel. Paint thickness is measured in microns, and say your stock paint is 6 microns thick. That half you painted, is now 12 microns thick, whereas the other half is only 6. The paint surface will be uneven, and the only way to even it out is to basically sand the entire area of paint that you jsut painted... off. That's why you can't really just break up your paint on the same panel, and need to repaint the whole thing. When blending, you're not really repainting the whole panel, the panel you're blending into is paint blended on that part closest to the repair panel, and the other half is just recleared. For example:
You replace your rear bumper, but the quarters are fine and needed no repair work in your accident. You paint the bumper, but need to blend into the quarters because you can't get the paint to match perfectly. The rear 1/3 (give or take) of your quarter panels that are touching your rear bumper get new paint on them, blended into the existing paint, whereas the other part of your quarters just get recleared.
6. Rattle can paint is the devil!!!
... on exteriors anyway. Interiors they're fine, but whatever you do, don't rattle can your new bumper or kit. Rattle can paint doesn't really dry in the same way auto paint does... it technically doesn't really "dry" at all. If it did, it'd dry up in the can and you wouldn't be able to use it after a short period of time. It's dry to the touch maybe, but it doesn't really dry on your car. When you bring your car into the shop with rattle can paint, it's going to be much harder for teh shop to remove and cause them more of a headache.
We had a truck come into the shop with a 2 1/2" deep dent (totally filled in with body filler... big no no) and rattle can "factory paint" over the "fixed" surface. I LITERALLY went through FIVE... yes FIVE GRINDER DISCS just to get the paint off!!!! The rattle can paint gummed up really bad and took 5 grinder discs to get off.... not to mention all the body filler under that. I wasn't happy.
7. How long until I can wax my car after paint?
To be on the safe side, wait at least 90 days until waxing your fresh paint. Some will say sooner, but to be safe, wait 90 days before a good wax. If you wax too early and your base coat isn't fully cleared, your clear coat will cloud and get foggy... causing you to need a repaint later on, which will most likely not be covererd by a warranty.
04-15-2007, 03:42 AM
#4
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Chicago
Posts: 2,741
After you paint something the surface is wavy like water, bumpy, and has specks of dust that fell from everywhere and hardened in the paint. When you wet sand it you are leveling out the dust, evening out the surface, smoothing everything out, and dulling the paint temporarily. Then you use rubbing compound to wipe away the sand marks, and then polish to get rid of the compound marks and to shine it. If you dont do all that then you have a pretty crappy paint job.
Pearl - Its basically colored fairy dust. Very hard to measure in weight because they hardly weigh a gram when u scoop some in the paint.
Pearl - Its basically colored fairy dust. Very hard to measure in weight because they hardly weigh a gram when u scoop some in the paint.
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