Project Time Attack *Prelim pics w/ wing*
03-21-2009, 10:37 PM
#201
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this is entertaining and educational makes me wanna start my own thread for my progress except I wont be as cool cause Im not doing the work unfortunatly 
oh well at least it'll keep me from bored roaming the forums
oh well at least it'll keep me from bored roaming the forums
03-24-2009, 12:04 AM
#204
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by scikotictc232
id say save the money and wait till you have the money you need for the progress and just run those. ull save money in the long run.
Problem with that is, I don't forsee having the money for the Progress by the time the first event gets here. And I don't wish to run on the H-techs right now. PTuning advised on the Tein SS's, and Progress coils as well. I believe I can get the basics with a custom spring rate, and run those for now, and just sell them after I get enough for the Progress. Anything is going to be better than just springs and stock struts.
That reminds me, I still need to get my Progress rear sway bar.
03-24-2009, 01:04 AM
#206
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Travis doesn't need a trunk on his car. ^^
All tires are run flats, so no need for a spare. The aim of his vehicle is to annihilate any poor sap that crosses his path, lololololololol.
jk
But yea...... x2
How would you get to the trunk??? Remove the back seat?
=)
All tires are run flats, so no need for a spare. The aim of his vehicle is to annihilate any poor sap that crosses his path, lololololololol.
jk
But yea...... x2
How would you get to the trunk??? Remove the back seat?
=)
03-24-2009, 01:22 AM
#207
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Pardon the ignorance, I know me and you had a little situation in that other thread, that set aside,,,the wing looks great. Looks alot better than I thought. However, what does a wing actually do to a car? From my knowledge, it adds downforce which then adds to better traction in the rear tires? Is that how it works? How would it benefit a FWD? Or does it not matter and it provides more traction to the rear wheels, regardless if its FWD, RWD, or AWD.
03-24-2009, 02:05 AM
#208
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Hey Travis,
I thought I'd chime in on your thread and help answer the question, "purpose of a rear wing on a FWD car?". I have a little bit of knowledge on this matter.
Most people have the notion that a rear wing is there to provide additional traction to the non-driven rear tires, rather than looking at it as a device that provides rear end stability to the vehicle in general.
In order to make a front wheel drive car even remotely competitive on the track, it is necessary to drastically reduce the understeer that is inherent in a FWD platform. You may try anything from eliminating the front sway bar to using a huge rear sway bar to running wider front tires to setting up a much more aggressive front camber setting, etc.
All these changes will help to increase the mechanical grip on the front of the vehicle to allow it to rotate through turns rather than plowing straight when asked to turn. Now while this increased mechanical front grip will help make the car faster through slow and medium speed corners, it will make the rear end feel light and often unstable at higher speeds. This is where the rear wing comes into play.
The rear wing will provide additional stability to the rear of the vehicle and make it much more stable at higher speeds, whether in a straight line or through high speed corners. Although our PTuning TA tC had no problems taking home first at the huge VIR track, our driver Ross felt that we could have been considerably faster through the high speed corners had we been able to dial in more rear wing.
Needless to say, the 2009 version of our TA machine will be sporting a much larger rear wing.
Hope this helps explain the age old "rear wing on a FWD car" question and hopefully cut down on any ricer type comments, LOL.
- Toan
I thought I'd chime in on your thread and help answer the question, "purpose of a rear wing on a FWD car?". I have a little bit of knowledge on this matter.
Most people have the notion that a rear wing is there to provide additional traction to the non-driven rear tires, rather than looking at it as a device that provides rear end stability to the vehicle in general.
In order to make a front wheel drive car even remotely competitive on the track, it is necessary to drastically reduce the understeer that is inherent in a FWD platform. You may try anything from eliminating the front sway bar to using a huge rear sway bar to running wider front tires to setting up a much more aggressive front camber setting, etc.
All these changes will help to increase the mechanical grip on the front of the vehicle to allow it to rotate through turns rather than plowing straight when asked to turn. Now while this increased mechanical front grip will help make the car faster through slow and medium speed corners, it will make the rear end feel light and often unstable at higher speeds. This is where the rear wing comes into play.
The rear wing will provide additional stability to the rear of the vehicle and make it much more stable at higher speeds, whether in a straight line or through high speed corners. Although our PTuning TA tC had no problems taking home first at the huge VIR track, our driver Ross felt that we could have been considerably faster through the high speed corners had we been able to dial in more rear wing.
Needless to say, the 2009 version of our TA machine will be sporting a much larger rear wing.
Hope this helps explain the age old "rear wing on a FWD car" question and hopefully cut down on any ricer type comments, LOL.
- Toan
03-24-2009, 02:50 AM
#209
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Originally Posted by 10PieceNuggets
Pardon the ignorance, I know me and you had a little situation in that other thread, that set aside,,,the wing looks great. Looks alot better than I thought. However, what does a wing actually do to a car? From my knowledge, it adds downforce which then adds to better traction in the rear tires? Is that how it works? How would it benefit a FWD? Or does it not matter and it provides more traction to the rear wheels, regardless if its FWD, RWD, or AWD.
Originally Posted by Ptuning_tuner
Hey Travis,
I thought I'd chime in on your thread and help answer the question, "purpose of a rear wing on a FWD car?". I have a little bit of knowledge on this matter.
Most people have the notion that a rear wing is there to provide additional traction to the non-driven rear tires, rather than looking at it as a device that provides rear end stability to the vehicle in general.
In order to make a front wheel drive car even remotely competitive on the track, it is necessary to drastically reduce the understeer that is inherent in a FWD platform. You may try anything from eliminating the front sway bar to using a huge rear sway bar to running wider front tires to setting up a much more aggressive front camber setting, etc.
All these changes will help to increase the mechanical grip on the front of the vehicle to allow it to rotate through turns rather than plowing straight when asked to turn. Now while this increased mechanical front grip will help make the car faster through slow and medium speed corners, it will make the rear end feel light and often unstable at higher speeds. This is where the rear wing comes into play.
The rear wing will provide additional stability to the rear of the vehicle and make it much more stable at higher speeds, whether in a straight line or through high speed corners. Although our PTuning TA tC had no problems taking home first at the huge VIR track, our driver Ross felt that we could have been considerably faster through the high speed corners had we been able to dial in more rear wing.
Needless to say, the 2009 version of our TA machine will be sporting a much larger rear wing.
Hope this helps explain the age old "rear wing on a FWD car" question and hopefully cut down on any ricer type comments, LOL.
- Toan
I thought I'd chime in on your thread and help answer the question, "purpose of a rear wing on a FWD car?". I have a little bit of knowledge on this matter.
Most people have the notion that a rear wing is there to provide additional traction to the non-driven rear tires, rather than looking at it as a device that provides rear end stability to the vehicle in general.
In order to make a front wheel drive car even remotely competitive on the track, it is necessary to drastically reduce the understeer that is inherent in a FWD platform. You may try anything from eliminating the front sway bar to using a huge rear sway bar to running wider front tires to setting up a much more aggressive front camber setting, etc.
All these changes will help to increase the mechanical grip on the front of the vehicle to allow it to rotate through turns rather than plowing straight when asked to turn. Now while this increased mechanical front grip will help make the car faster through slow and medium speed corners, it will make the rear end feel light and often unstable at higher speeds. This is where the rear wing comes into play.
The rear wing will provide additional stability to the rear of the vehicle and make it much more stable at higher speeds, whether in a straight line or through high speed corners. Although our PTuning TA tC had no problems taking home first at the huge VIR track, our driver Ross felt that we could have been considerably faster through the high speed corners had we been able to dial in more rear wing.
Needless to say, the 2009 version of our TA machine will be sporting a much larger rear wing.
Hope this helps explain the age old "rear wing on a FWD car" question and hopefully cut down on any ricer type comments, LOL.
- Toan
03-24-2009, 02:55 AM
#210
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Originally Posted by davedavetC
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by scikotictc232
id say save the money and wait till you have the money you need for the progress and just run those. ull save money in the long run.
Problem with that is, I don't forsee having the money for the Progress by the time the first event gets here. And I don't wish to run on the H-techs right now. PTuning advised on the Tein SS's, and Progress coils as well. I believe I can get the basics with a custom spring rate, and run those for now, and just sell them after I get enough for the Progress. Anything is going to be better than just springs and stock struts.
That reminds me, I still need to get my Progress rear sway bar.
Yeah I've been scanning the classifieds a bit. Some look very promising.
03-24-2009, 02:58 AM
#211
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Originally Posted by davedavetC
just saw the pics, and i dont hate it, i just want to know what are you gonna do if you have to get in your trunk?
No need to get in the trunk. I don't put anything in there but tools anyway.
Originally Posted by ippskidder
Travis doesn't need a trunk on his car. ^^
All tires are run flats, so no need for a spare. The aim of his vehicle is to annihilate any poor sap that crosses his path, lololololololol.
jk
But yea...... x2
How would you get to the trunk??? Remove the back seat?
=)
All tires are run flats, so no need for a spare. The aim of his vehicle is to annihilate any poor sap that crosses his path, lololololololol.
jk
But yea...... x2
How would you get to the trunk??? Remove the back seat?
=)
I don't have rear seats either. On occasion I put the one half seat in behind the driver seat so my son's Recaro car seat can go in there whenever he rides with me.
This is his seat.
03-24-2009, 03:01 AM
#212
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Originally Posted by Ptuning_tuner
Hey Travis,
I thought I'd chime in on your thread and help answer the question, "purpose of a rear wing on a FWD car?". I have a little bit of knowledge on this matter.
Most people have the notion that a rear wing is there to provide additional traction to the non-driven rear tires, rather than looking at it as a device that provides rear end stability to the vehicle in general.
In order to make a front wheel drive car even remotely competitive on the track, it is necessary to drastically reduce the understeer that is inherent in a FWD platform. You may try anything from eliminating the front sway bar to using a huge rear sway bar to running wider front tires to setting up a much more aggressive front camber setting, etc.
All these changes will help to increase the mechanical grip on the front of the vehicle to allow it to rotate through turns rather than plowing straight when asked to turn. Now while this increased mechanical front grip will help make the car faster through slow and medium speed corners, it will make the rear end feel light and often unstable at higher speeds. This is where the rear wing comes into play.
The rear wing will provide additional stability to the rear of the vehicle and make it much more stable at higher speeds, whether in a straight line or through high speed corners. Although our PTuning TA tC had no problems taking home first at the huge VIR track, our driver Ross felt that we could have been considerably faster through the high speed corners had we been able to dial in more rear wing.
Needless to say, the 2009 version of our TA machine will be sporting a much larger rear wing.
Hope this helps explain the age old "rear wing on a FWD car" question and hopefully cut down on any ricer type comments, LOL.
- Toan
I thought I'd chime in on your thread and help answer the question, "purpose of a rear wing on a FWD car?". I have a little bit of knowledge on this matter.
Most people have the notion that a rear wing is there to provide additional traction to the non-driven rear tires, rather than looking at it as a device that provides rear end stability to the vehicle in general.
In order to make a front wheel drive car even remotely competitive on the track, it is necessary to drastically reduce the understeer that is inherent in a FWD platform. You may try anything from eliminating the front sway bar to using a huge rear sway bar to running wider front tires to setting up a much more aggressive front camber setting, etc.
All these changes will help to increase the mechanical grip on the front of the vehicle to allow it to rotate through turns rather than plowing straight when asked to turn. Now while this increased mechanical front grip will help make the car faster through slow and medium speed corners, it will make the rear end feel light and often unstable at higher speeds. This is where the rear wing comes into play.
The rear wing will provide additional stability to the rear of the vehicle and make it much more stable at higher speeds, whether in a straight line or through high speed corners. Although our PTuning TA tC had no problems taking home first at the huge VIR track, our driver Ross felt that we could have been considerably faster through the high speed corners had we been able to dial in more rear wing.
Needless to say, the 2009 version of our TA machine will be sporting a much larger rear wing.
Hope this helps explain the age old "rear wing on a FWD car" question and hopefully cut down on any ricer type comments, LOL.
- Toan
Toan -- your knowledge and MrC's are ALWAYS welcomed and GREATLY appreciated. It's great to have you guys around for support when tC owners want to take it to this level of competition.
Let it be known, if you want to step up your game and go to that next level, PTuning will take you there better than any other Scion performance provider on this site or community.
03-24-2009, 03:03 AM
#213
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im looking at saps jic's too haha. they will probably get sold before i get them though. oh well i guess. ill settle for jic or tein ss's. travis how long has it been since you last drove your car ?
03-24-2009, 03:09 AM
#214
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Originally Posted by scikotictc232
good question i was always curious about that. whats the difference between the progress rear sways and the hotchkins ? and how effective is disconnecting the front sway bar for race usage ? and connecting it when the car leaves the track ? does p tuning run a front sway bar at any of their events ? or all removed and what about rado ? just curious.
I have spoken to Rado personally, and of course I speak to PTuning on multiple occasions. Neither of them run the front Sway bar at the track. To my knowledge though, PTuning recommends that your car is on Coilovers when doing this. When my wheel and tire setup is complete, I'm looking to run 255wide tires on all 4 corners (PTunings setup during their run at my local track). Now they run 285 (f), 255 (r).
03-24-2009, 03:12 AM
#215
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Originally Posted by scikotictc232
im looking at saps jic's too haha. they will probably get sold before i get them though. oh well i guess. ill settle for jic or tein ss's. travis how long has it been since you last drove your car ?
Hmm...lets see, I think it was around the end of Jan when I sold the turbo kit. Those JICS probably will be sold by the time I get it too.
03-24-2009, 04:29 AM
#217
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hey whats up travis, your cars gonna be pretty crazy haha, im not sure if youve been talking to my bro but we just picked up a new project were working on. just picked up a 2001 mr2 spyder and swapping a 2zz-ge in it.
03-24-2009, 04:49 AM
#219
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Originally Posted by 10PieceNuggets
Thats some serious stuff, so on a RWD car, a wing adds downforce, but for a FWD it does what Toan said?
You learn something new everyday.
You learn something new everyday.
It's going to do the same on the RWD car as well. Every car needs stability traveling at high speeds. Can't forget about reducing drag as well.
03-24-2009, 04:51 AM
#220
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Originally Posted by kalvinz61
hey whats up travis, your cars gonna be pretty crazy haha, im not sure if youve been talking to my bro but we just picked up a new project were working on. just picked up a 2001 mr2 spyder and swapping a 2zz-ge in it.
Nice, not bad at all. I probably would go with something like a 3sgte swap into it...