TimmyT

are my eyes decieving me? Or is it simply not true? Your thoughts... comments.. opinions?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_AZ_engine

Joe_Dezod

HOLY CRAP!!! Hows that for a comment?

If that's the case that explains the rediculous numbers the stock motor can handle. I'm wondering what we could do to pull the same torque as the RAV4.

Would I be the first to consider a "Frankenstien" engine swap? tC bottem end, Rav4 head. That would be SICK and a boost monster.

I will start looking for a new head shortly. Im thinking this is the reason behind it.

TimmyT

Your thoughts intrigue me.. applying is another question. Yah think it would work?

Joe_Dezod

I KNOW it would work. People swap out blocks and heads on K20 and K24 setups all the time.

I'm literally searching as we speak for a Rav4 head and I will be looking up more specs on the Rav4 that makes all that extra torque and find out what's different between the two. We'll see what I dig up. I'll certainly post what I learn.

Joe_Dezod

Before I forget... Tuning is very important with this swap. A Camcon or Emanage will be necessary for it to run correctly.

TimmyT

Well I am gonna go F/I for my tC so the computer will be there. but if I can swap out the rav 4 head w/o any major complications.

Joe_Dezod

I'm finding that site a little in-accurate... The Rav4 makes 161hp, 165 torque. I'm having trouble finding the torque monster that site speaks of...

TimmyT

Yah. but when i found that article, everything just started to click on how well the stock motor handles mods and boost. The motor acts like it has forged rods.

oldman

90% of the engines made over the last 30 years have forged steel connecting rods, there were a few V8 like AMC, Buick etc that had cast rods, on 6 bangers AMC / Jeep. The new type rods like on a LS1 Camaro, Ford Mustang are cast powder iron crack cap design, slightly weaker then forged but far tighter tolerance in roundness and weight.

TimmyT

'sup oldman. So I don't have to buy aftermarket forged rods then to run higher boost? hehe Kinda happy about saving a 1,500 or so bucks on the FI set up.

oldman

Depends how big the rods are, and how much good stuff is in the rods, like molly, chromium, and nickel, also the size and tensile strength of the rod bolts (not as important under FI). The Acura GS-R is a high nickel, chromium steel, but they are kind of thin.

Joe_Dezod

Here's another write up I found... Written by Jack Yamaguchi of Automotive Engineering Online...

Toyota's new inline four-cylinder engine
Toyota is accelerating hard on its "core" engine update. Significantly, these engines share the second character "Z," beginning with the type-ZZ that was first adopted in the U.S. Corolla and more recently in the revived mid-engine sports car MR-S. It was followed by the NZ-family propelling various small vehicles, including the Echo sedan.

The Z-gen engine for Toyota's mid-size cars and vehicles is the all-new type-2AZ-FE, making its first appearance in the second-generation Estima minivan (the first-generation Estima was the Previa). The 2.4-L 2AZ will power the next-generation Camry replacement as the base engine and other future mid-size vehicles. The 2AZ-FE incorporates many features of Toyota's dual-overhead-camshaft, four-valves-per-cylinder engines, including the slant-squish combustion chamber, offset cylinder and crank centers, and the VVT-i continuously variable intake valve timing system. The aluminum engine measures 626-mm (25-in) long, 608-mm (24-in) wide, and 681-mm (27-in) tall.

The 2AZ-FE obtains a total displacement of 2362 cm3 with 88.5-mm (3.5-in) bore and 96.0-mm (3.8-in) stroke. The cylinder block is now an open-deck, midi-skirt die-cast aluminum type with cast-in iron liners and a die-cast aluminum lower crankcase and a stamped oil pan. The forged steel crankshaft is fully balanced with eight counterweights and supported by five main bearings. A helical gear pressed in No. 3 counterweight drives twin contra-rotating balance shafts in the shaft housing within the lower crankcase. The balance shaft geartrain includes plastic Nos. 1 and 3 drive gears, meshing with steel gears.

The dual overhead camshafts are driven by a single-stage roller chain of 8.0-mm (0.3-in) pitch, enabling a narrow included valve angle of 27.5°. The camshafts act on four valves per cylinder via bucket tappets. As in the recent Toyota engine practice, no clearance adjusting shim is employed. Valve diameters are 34.0 mm (1.3 in) for intake and 29.5 mm (1.2 in) for exhaust, with 8.0-mm (0.3-in) lift for both intake and exhaust. The four-vane VVT-i device is fitted on the intake camshaft, altering timing by 50°. Fuel is injected sequentially via an ultra-fine-atomization injector with twelve small injection holes, each 0.18 mm (0.01 in) in diameter. As in the smaller NZ engine, the new AZ adopts a plastic, built-up, and vibration-welded intake manifold integrating a large volume plenum chamber (3.5-L (214 in3) volume including a 1.3-L (79 in3) resonator). Twin three-way catalytic converters, each with a 0.84-L (51 in3) volume, are mounted immediately downstream of the stainless tubular exhaust manifold. The front exhaust pipe, collecting from the catalysts, has a separator in the pipe that reduces exhaust gas interference and improves low- and mid-speed torque.

The type 2AZ-FE engine that powers the Estima minivan is rated at 118 kW (160 hp) at 5600 rpm and 221 N•m (163 lb•ft) at 4000 rpm on a 9.6:1 compression ratio, requiring regular-grade, unleaded gasoline. A smaller version of this engine, the type-1AZ 2.0-L unit, powers the recently updated RAV4 light SUV. The Japanese version of this engine, designated 1AZ-FSE, features the fuel-efficient "D4" direct-injection head.

Me talking again...
I would assume that with slightly lower compression, we could make our cars handle higher boost levels safely. Granted we need a stronger clutch and cooling system, daily driving at around 14psi with a lower compression is more than safe. I think either by putting in a thicker head gasket or buying low comp pistions, we'd be fine.

unlimited77

i cant believe i didnt know this..O_O
lol

Has anyone tore apart there motor to see what type of material its composed of? or how durable it is?

I gues zpi or scionspeed and jotech would know the most about this matter.

i hope you guys see this topic!

niguels

I don't understand what is the big deal about forged connecting rods. Most connecting rods are manufactured trough a forging process in order to give them maximum tensile strength with minimum weight.

A mechanized connecting rod will always be thicker and heavier than a forged one, which obviously hurts the engine performance due to the increased moment of inertia (rotational inertia).

What really makes the connecting rods in asian engines different is the surface treatment that comes after the forging. Most asian manufacturers use a process called "Shot Peening", which induces residual compressive stresses on the part, therefore greatly improving the fatigue strength of the part. In other words, a pre-load on the part. That is one of the reasons why asian engines can either have a longer service life or take take a little more abuse.

my 2 cents

oldman

I don't know if it true that all Asian rod are shot peen, some US rods were preened too, and I don't really think it adds all that much. I'd take a good does of moly or chromium any day. Modern forgings are much denser and uniform then forgings of 10 or 20 or 30 years ago.

That said it looks like the tC is holding up to BIG HP, far more then stock Honda engines..

Joe_Dezod

I hate my keyboard... too many shortcuts... Anyway, back to RE-typing my response...

Oldman, I agree with you 100%. The Toyota engine is destroying other stock NA engines from a boost standpoint. My 2002 Civic EX (1.7L SOHC, D17A2) had a turbo kit on it. I could run 6psi safely, with a fuel tune AND a large FMIC. After that, you're on your own for potential engine failure. Sure enough, 7.5psi (EBC logging) blew the headgasket. After I replaced that with a leakless rubberized one, I could run about 8psi on the track and up to 9-10 with a DIY methanol injection system.

And here you have the tC with maps being programmed to run up to 14psi on high octane fuel and nothing more. The GTR motor's head will get extremely hot after 12-14psi (depending on fuel grade) and eventually fail. If my motor can run the same boost levels as a stock built GTR I'm more than satisfied.

I am in a large debate right now as to whether I should buy a kit, or go through the pain and agony of building a kit from scratch, and possibly selling those kits later... I was already talking to my main sponser/supplier (From Dezod.com) and he offered to take the stock specs of the engine from the tC (bore, displacement, compression, etc...) and build a turbo from scratch that's optimized specifically for our enging setup. It shouldn't cost more than a typical turbo because I get large discounts on them. I remember being able to get HKS intercoolers custom built for around 350-400 when he and I marketed a new Civic turbo kit (now the best selling turbo kit in the country for 01+ Civics).


Any suggestions on that note?

TimmyT

I really can't believe no one mentioned any of this information if they new about it (/glare ZPI & scionspeed) If you can build a tailored turbo kit for your tC for about the same price as a mass produced kit. I say go for it. There are no carb E.O. kits out there yet so that's not a big deal, and plus its tailored to your ride. Wich is always nice.

TimmyT

If our statements our true, the 2az-fe is almost boost ready outta the box. But also as per oldman. The quality of the forged materials should be checked b4 running high boost Just in case. Think all I'll need to buy are some forged piston heads since its cast iron sleeved, that would be the only part i should need to run 12 psi daily driver.

TurboCustomz

This sounds cut and paste...^^^^


The 2AZ engine has more then surpassed my expectations. Not only are the rods forged but the crank is as well. The internals appear to be very stout. The timing chain setup is nice, although the front engine case cover makes it a pain in the butt to remove/replace the head without just pulling the entire engine. They have multi-layer steel head gaskets stock which are also boost friendly. The heads could use some work, which is why we offered the Stage One head package for these cars. The Stage two package will be released very soon and will include valves, springs and retainers. With the excess heat that is produced when boosting heavily I would recommend at least after market valves before venturing above the 18-20psi level for a long period of time.

Charles
ZPI Racing
502-371-RACE

Joe_Dezod

How much do you charge for the stage 1 head? If we were to send you a core head could that be done? If you have a supply of the heads maybe you can sell them outright? I'm basically looking to keep the original head from the car in case of any issues. But I definately know the stock head could use some improvements.