tuffCookie

hey everyone...what do u recommend?


4-2-1 header

or

4-1 header



the only differences i know about the two is the explanation i found on DC Sports website:

"In many cases 4-1 headers are designed for racing applications where the vehicle is being driven at or near redline. The 4-1 design maximizes top end power, whereas the 4-2-1 evenly distributes it throughout the power band."


i'm aiming for 4-1 header, but is there a noticeable difference between the 2 types?

matty-tC

alphawerks > *

turbo2liter

He asks about header designs, and you give him a vendor recommendation. Good call.

WeDriveScions

You probably would even mentally be able to notice the difference. Even a Dyno probably wouldn't pick up too much, cause the difference would be so minimal, and other factors could easily play in, like air/engine temp.

I'd personally go with what look you like. I've got the Megan Racing, but Alphawerks and DC both are great as well.

matty-tC

alphawerks is a 4-1 header. i say alphawerks is better than the rest. (i.e. recommending the 4-1 header design as the purchase he would enjoy the most)

thanks for trolling. play again. and if you really feel like going back and forth, just send me more PM's. I find it amusing.

matty-tC

Torque is determined by header design and all of the power band tuning is done between the head and the final collector, where the last of the primary or secondary pipes is joined to a single exhaust pipe.
4-1 headers typically loose a lot of low end and mid range torque by their design. The 4-1 design will show a single peak in power improvement with a sharp decrease in power both above and below the single peak, when compared to the stock power level. Most header makers using this design will tune for peak horsepower at or above the engine's maximum speed, loosing power throught he lower half of the power curve for a very small gain at maximum engine speed. However, the exact point in the RPM range at which that peak occurs is determined by the diameter and length of the primary pipes, and some makers will use longer and smaller diameter primary pipes which will result in a small peak in power in the mid to low RPM range with power loss at both very low RPM and across the upper half of the range of engine opperating speed.
Tri-Y headers produce even power across the entire RPM range with very noticeable improvement in mid and low range torque. This is because the Tri-Y design produces two seperate peaks in power gain which taper off more gradually below the first peak and above the second peak, most often not showing any dip below the stock power level. Where those peaks occur in the range of engine speed is determined by the diameter and length of both the primary pipes and also the secondary pipes. Most makers of headers with this design will tune for the first peak in power in the lower half of the engine's opperating speed and the second peak in the upper half of the engine's opperating speed, for an even and consistent improvement in power across the entire range of engine speed which will in all cases out perform the 4-1 design for both street and race use.
The main reason that 4-1 headers are so common is the fact that they are less difficult and less expensive to manufacture and, therefore, provide greater profit margins for the manufacturer and the retailer.

tuffCookie

thanx 4 all the replies. especially matty-tc for all the info.
i've been looking into either the Alphawerks or DC header.

matty-tc: based on what u said ("...even and consistent improvement in power across the entire range of engine speed which will in all cases out perform the 4-1 design for both street and race use.")
and what u've experienced with the Alphawerks so far, if u had the choice, would u change to a 4-2-1 header?

i noticed that the DC 4-2-1 is about $200 less than the Alphawerks 4-1 header.

if anybody else can make suggestions, please feel free to do so.
sorry for these questions...i'm somewhat of a noob to the car scene and am trying to learn as much as i can ASAP.

thanks.

matty-tC

nope. the quality of the alphawerks header and the power gains that have been proven by dyno sheet, all lead me back to alphawerks.

if you do get it, make sure you get antifoulers ($20 or so) and it'll keep the CEL from appearing and causing bad gas mileage/performance

metalranger33

how can u say that alphaworks is the best if u havent tried the other header's (plural because dc, and meghan are 2 different companies)

matty-tC

dyno sheets i've seen on here, personally using the alphawerks, and my past experiences with header design.

meghan i'm interested to see because if i remember correctly they're a Tri-Y setup. but i have yet to see a dyno sheet

acasanova

In addition to this the quality of the DC header is inferior, megan, we all know the problems regrding them, precat falling off. This discussion has come up a few times, details explained by OLDMAN. Just search around.

metalranger33

well i have Dc headers, and havent had any problems with them...and i read the dyno was 10 for DC what was the dyno for Alphaworks

hunterUnknown

iTrader: (1)

as i recall, oldman totally bashed that dc header. after reading what he said i cancelled my order.

i wish they'd have a 4-2-1 with a cat. that'd be nice. till then, antifoulers or o2sim it is.

aarontrini85

not realy related to any of this but what ever happend to megan releasing a new version of there header with a better cat???

WeDriveScions

In Defense of Megan Racing... They've been around for quite a while and while their precat designed header had problems, they've gone way far and beyond replacing and working with anyone who had problems. Their header available now is plain sweet and there is no more precat problems to deal with.

Criticizing Megan for an old header design is like criticizing Apple cause the first ipod didn't have a click wheel. They've more than come back on that mistake.

I'm very content with the megan design and really like the look of the header itself. The guys at Megan that I've talked to are great.... Much better than my experiences with the Injen Folk. I actually can just ask for someone and get to talk to them.

I still reiterate the same comments.... All "Experts" aside, go with what looks the best, realistically, our lil four banger is going to push that air 4-2-1 or 4-1 so minisculy different that you'll be damned to notice too much.

If you want a diehard CEL solution, get the o2 simulator, cause that works and the anti-fouler trick only "Sometimes" works.

I just sit here and think..... They're frickin' pipes.... four of 'em come out... go to one of 'em and is they are bigger, straigter, and dump the OEM precat.... of course they are gonna give you more pep. If one "Dominates" the others.... I call Domination in how it was marketed by Scionlife Members and it's Reps, no Domination in a signifigantly different power or torque based change.

acasanova

No one is critizing Megan, we are criticizing the header design they employed. We all know megan has a good reputation.

WeDriveScions

My point is that they don't employ it anymore, so it's their bad then, but I've seen it resurface so many times.... it's irrelevant now...

matty-tC

their new design has dyno sheets and is shipping now?

OuterHeaven

I know this is a little off topic but is there even a 4-2-1 header design for the tC??? i thought the DC sports was miss labled and that it really is a 4-1 design. I may be wrong but if someone has a picture of it off the car it would really clear some things up. Anyways i think that alphawerks is better or just save for a turbo and forget about headers all together. anyways good luck.

hahaitzskippy

4-2-1 design is protyped by WEAPON-R. hence another thread.

everything up until now has been 4-1 header design.

DC and AW = 4-1

meagan = 4-1 but has a precat which issue effective because if it did work, the CEL light woudnt turn on. with or with out antifouler.

as of now. AW has been the highest gains throughout the power band. i have a dyno sheet to prove it. (serach my dyno graph)