turbo2liter

I just dyno'd over 500 AWHP and drove to and from the dyno 30 minutes each way. Maybe it's just oldman's tuning that melt's turbine's, since he is the only one that has replicated it thus far.

Note to oldman: Buy an EGT gauge, if it goes over 1600, hire seen4ever to tune your.. uhh.. do you even have a Scion?

davedavetC

iTrader: (4)

haha OMG

i read the majority of this post and now my eye wont stop twitching!!!! lol

turbocivic

alot of that is in the tune, I use AEM EMS, and I've got 25+ hours on the dyno with one of the east coast's best AEM tuners behind the laptop.

seen4ever

holy hell, 25hrs tuning on a dyno?

i couldn't imagine your tuning costs. who was the tuner? tried to think of people around north carolina and i'm not thinking of anyone. I know mase in florida, Jeff in PA, i know stoopid makes trips out to the east from tiem to time.

turbo2liter

25 hours? Tuning what? I could tune my car with a tuning fork in 25 hours, let alone a standalone and a wideband.

turbocivic

lets keep in mind this is an OBD-0 car, that has been rewired with an OBD-1 underhood harness, with a jumper on the inside harness from OBD-0 to OBD-1.

It's basically a relic (91 SI) with the newest electronics money can buy. I drive this car every day, it's made 4 hour trips to Atlanta, 14 hour trips to West Palm Beach, and will get 29 mpg if I can keep my foot out of it.

Jack Harris from P1 Auto tuned it, and he is quite the perfectionist. The goal was to have a daily driven drag car that could go anywhere at anytime. The tuning cost were not all that high, mostly because I bought the EMS and UEGO from P1, and he has done quite a bit of motor work for me too. I can't stress enough the driveability of this car, even with 1000cc Precision injectors, DPR Racing stage IV headwork and some of the nastiest Web Racing cams ever ground.

this is a full interior car that has gone 11.26 @ 131 spinning through the traps on BFG Drag Radials, and I drove it 4 hours to the dragstrip in 85 degree weather.

It was worth it.

Roman

Do you have an lsd? And what kind of numbers are you putting down?

seen4ever

good numbers sir, I'm interested to get mine back to the track this year. I've got it able to drive perfect with 1000s in it, but probably need to do some mild adjustments in the upper RPM range.

but a damn good mph there.

turbocivic

YS1 tranny w/ a Quaife...350hp/245tq on 93 octane and 14 lbs....550+hp/390+tq on 116 octane and 27 lbs.

turbocivic

thanks man, I've ran as big as 26" slicks on it too, but I have to take the fenders, hood, and front bumper cover off to do that.

seen4ever

i would expect more numbers though on low boost

I made 355whp/245wlbs @ 13psi on a t3/t4e, 60 trim, stage 5. maybe its the manifold, hehe

I stick to 24.5in slicks, as well i like fenders

open diff, 93 octane and 11.75@117mph.

oldman

Ain't me saying your turbo will melt, the turbo map is produced by the OEM turbo manufacturer, so you can deny reality all you want, it is easy to see the turbo surge line and the effects of turbo driven into surge are well know. So either your car violates the laws of physics or you like your vendor; the "expert" who can't read a dynopak dyno that clearly says flywheel on the sandbag run, are maybe less than credible.

Since you are a turbo “expert” please plot your engine flow on your turbo and prove that your turbo is not into surge. It took me less then 10 seconds to eyeball the first map, and maybe 2 minutes to calculate that a 1.8T would be WAY WAY WAY into the surge line with that huge turbo map posted. So what is it? Does your car violate the laws of physics and automotive engineering or ….. This is a scion board where cars have to function within the laws of physics.

“To the left of the envelope, where it is marked "surge limit", the flow through the compressor is unstable and will go up and down and backwards unpredictably. This is surging. Do not pick a turbo that will operate in this area! It can be very damaging.”

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html

turbo2liter

Maybe you should stop reading magazines, stop drawing lines on paper, stop talking about the cars you once had, and how what we are doing is either a) stolen b) violating physics or c) a gutted race car, actually go BUY a car, whatever it may be, and mod it. Have you ever heard of anti-surge housings? These have been around.. probably since you last played with a turbo.

All this talk makes my head hurt. Facts remain, there are 3 people (seen4ever, turbocivic, and myself) who all have 500+WHP 10 second cars, and we think you are a dumbass. Now, I don't care what you once had, and you may be quite knowledgable, but there's also the equal chance you are 17yrs old and just read the latest ThuperStreet. You sound intelligent, but you also keep making reptitive points with your only evidence being some paper you drew a few lines on. Our evidence is in the dyno and track. Who's counts for more?

oldman

turbo2liter wrote I have three cars sitting in my driveway I own all three, not some payment plan, two of the three have turbo setups on them, the Scion tC is waiting for one. Have you notices this is a tC forum? Do you own a tC?

OK I consider a 2200 lbs Civic with a drivetrain taken from an Acura with no A/C to be a somewhat less then a “car”. But I can see we consider cars to be a little different. I kind of like mine to be one color too..

turbo2liter wrote No but feel free to start a new post about it. I have heard of a surge resistant Ti-Al blade and this is the turbo I run on my VW shipped to me all the way from Germany, setup hand fabricated and put on by me too. Something like 360 ft-lbs to the wheels… but I digress.


turbo2liter wrote Do you lets see seen4ever We have already talked about your “cars” and I for one don’t see how a drag queen sans A/C has any relevance to how equal length manifolds do or do not make WHP on a Camry cam engine sub 10 PSI. Or is it you boys need a tag team cause each piece of data presented is hopelessly flawed? Come now three grown men and so far the only dyno proof of the efficiency of a equal length manifold has be ONE HP oh and the other obviously sandbagged run where the vendor says it is wheel HP while the picture of his OWN dyno says “flywheel”.

So yes I think a picture and dyno run of your 500+ WHP ride would do wonders for all of us. My cars are perfect in everyway and have A/C too but they don't have 500+ WHP and god like longevity.

turbo2liter wrote Maybe true but how embarrassing that all three of you boys to be body slammed by some 17 year old! Just between you and me, um, that is a picture of the oldlady and I never hooked up with that kind of eye candy when I was in high school.

turbo2liter wrote If we are talking trailer queens I would agree, but if you refer to the topic of this tread it is about equal length turbo manifolds and their workability and reliability on Camry cam, low boost street cars.

Obviously you boys are used to being the gurus on your boards and I’m sure your ride is faster then mine, no matter what I do. I on the other hand pride myself on stuff added to my ride working for years and years and years and years and yes keeping my A/C working too. I think it is quite tiresome that young men insist that they somehow have it all, power, looks, speed, low price, dependability et al. I on the other hand thru years or work and knowledge realize that a car is a compromise and any 10 second 4 banger leaves a whole lot to be desired on the streetability / reliability / price. But you can continue to pretend you car in specific violates laws of nature no doubt colored by your extreme naiveté on the subject.

oldman

http://198.204.14.7/news/moststolen/2002/2002vehnj.htm

Low low production GS-R is the number ONE stolen car Why? Cause Honda boys STEAL them,

Number 3 car a Civic SI with the DOHC VTEC

Gee look how many Integras get stolen, I wonder how is stealing them? They make up SO many of the top 25 cars and the Integra makes up so LITTLE of total car production. Yeh, I'm sure every Honda boy has a JDM engine....

Moral of the story: Honda boys race JDM engines, all the stolen Acuras go to the same place where my socks go Honda boys don't like A/Cs, Honda boys insist their ride is into the 11s and is fully streetable, yet you never see one at the tacks or get beat by one on the road; Kind of like the lockness monster eh?

oldman

Oh here is a post from my bud Robert who owns forcedperformance and has built a few custom turbos for me too:

"This turbo is the result of the last 2 years of product development. Our goal was to produce a bolt-in, stock appearing turbocharger for the EVO4-8 platform that outperformed the stock turbo.
We went through many prototypes, some pretty poor to be honest, before satisfying our initial design criteria.

The turbo had to spool up like a stock turbo and not give up any bottom end torque. The turbo had to sustain boost in the top end without dropping off, at least enough to maximize power on standard 93 octane fuel. Also there could be no undesirable back pressure issues and of course compressor surging under WOT at any RPM was totally unacceptable.

This sounds easy enough, but it actually turned out to be one of the tougher challanges we have ever faced. Mitsubishi has done a very good job with the stock turbo and identifing the existing shortcomings was not easy work.

Now the work is done. "

http://linux.forcedperformance.net/m...ode=Lancer_EVO


All that work and $1600 just to have the same boost curve and a little more top end then stock. Either Robert and the Evo engineers OEM don't know squat or it is indeed hard to build a quick spool turbo without surge under street conditions and have any hope of some stable top end boost.

Maybe you three boys should start your own company or do the laws of physics only cease to exist on your rides?

matty-tC

i'll paypal you a dollar to stop LOL

seen4ever

oldman, i have my excel file here of my new setup, let me make a screen shot of it I guess and I'll let you look at my calcs.

my current numbers are solely based on my old setup, which you've seen, the the black manifold which did allow for AC, but as you pointed out, i went out and stole my engine.

second, i get this feeling i know you from somewhere, maybe its the same color comment, as well the car is the same color, but make me think of someone local.....

either way, the calcs I have, show the car always above the surge limit. I know with the t3/t4oe 60 trim, stage 5 that i ran the 11sec pass on, it had 8k miles on it, i would assume 7900 of which were off boost driving around town.

oldman

how much?

All kind of funny when you ask one of these "experts" to plot the flow line of his turbo and the thread goes to hell. We all know that these large turbo are not streetable and ain't boosting at 2500 RPM as the "experts" have posted...

You know what it is, these guys have been trolling their "skills" for a while and have never been taken to task. Just look at the sandbag link, um the "expert" says it is wheel HP while the picture of the actual dyno says "flywheel" but don't bother the experts with the facts.

How much HP does a turbo actually use say ZPI stage 0? maybe 10 HP in total, so how much are you getting by pulse spacing, smooth tubes etc? Sure some cause of less pulse fighting and we have the Honda VTEC dyno showing one HP

seen4ever

I will say this, you are saying every honda with a big turbo is hitting the surge limit. There are hundreds if not thousands of users on www.honda-tech.com within the forced-induction forum. Many many many run big turbos, no one has ever reported the turbine melting. The only car i've ever hit the surge limit was a Supra with a GT42r without the anti-surge housing.



If this is becoming a ***** measuring contest, I have a 2004 G35c and my hatch that are both paid for as well. What area are you going after? It seems you either want to say I have stolen parts, my car is going to be stolen are you are constantly going after me not having AC.

I've repeated stated that there are many cars with turbos and ACs. I guess i need start posting pictures or something for you to believe me.

You talk of the 1whp difference. That car has run over .2 tenths faster in the 1/4 mile. That car also went from running 31 degrees timing at 8psi to running 24 degrees at 8psi.

either way, moral of story, you are right, as no matter what is presented here, you will still disbelieve that my car has never had a turbo fail due to surge limits.