Mid_Life_tC-risis

You make it sound like a header is a bad mod. Haven't seen any flow bench data on the stock pre-cat but I suspect a dyno of a gutted stock exhaust manifold would show gains the equivalent of a dyno error.

The 4-1 design aftermarket headers have shown a dyno gain of 8-9 whp on stock tC + axleback, which makes header the best n/a bolt-on power mod, and IMO is good bump for a Camry 4-banger engine. And while there are header issues such as rasp and folks snapping O2 sensors, CEL's for too lean/too rich aren't one of them.

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=82724

rosedaleny806

doesnt adding a resonator that big cancel out the power u would gain from the header? ive heard people say either live with noise and gain the power of the header or if not throw a resonator on and lose any gain u had

SePaTc

yes, on the NA stock tc, headers are a "bad"/pointless mod.

So, u think a stock header WITH the cat would perform the same as a stock header with the cat gutted out??? Isn't that contradictory to your whole point that headers reduce exhaust restriction and thus increase power?? :D

I never said the AFRs get messed up to the point of throwing a CEL.

I'm sure a nicely designed/constucted header would gain about 5-10(max) whp on a stock engine tc with an intake and exhaust. There is no magic tc header out there that you can just bolt right up and pickup 8-9whp without any other supporting mods. Won't happen. And if you have a dyno-proof (from anyone other than a manufacturer) I'd be happy to see it.

Dude- I'm not just speculating here. i BOUGHT a DC header for my tc. I installed the header on my car. It sounded like crap, ran like crap and KILLED my low end tq. I'm speaking from experience here.

On the other hand, I've done headers on plenty of hondas and other NA imports (and especially V engines) and gotten nice gains WITHOUT all of the CELs, noise, etc...

No, spending approx. $300 to add maybe 5hp to your Toyota Camry 4 cylinder at the expense of noise and being illegal is a dumb mod.

If you were supercharged or had a high compression built motor, ABSOLUTELY get a header. Its almost a must. STock motor tc does not need, nor does it really benefit from a header.

Then only people buying headers for their tcs are the wannabee-ricers who want to be cool and drive around in a modded car that other people THINK is fast and who can't afford a turbo or supercharger. Oh, and old dudes having a mid life crisis who want to act like they are backyard mechanics and thus buy every bolt on mod they can get their hands on as long as they can install it themselves in their driveway....

oh, also, fyi replacing your whole exhaust on a stock engine NA tc is a COMPLETE waste of time....unless you plan on going FI in the future. ...another reason why headers are pointless. Because most people who are actually looking for power gains will eventually look to a power adder, generally a turbo, which replaces the exhaust manifold anyway.

rosedaleny806

AMEN

rosedaleny806

i Definatly lost alot of low end torque aswell from the doofy header mod, ill admit i dont have the money for FI at all but watever hopefully soon ill supercharge my car

SePaTc

case in point.

Menace

First, please elaborate for me what makes you an expert? Slapping headers on a couple of hondas? What are your credentials and experience?

Second, the fact that you render a header useless speaks volumes about your overall knowledge of your self proclaimed expertise. Are you saying that all cars pre-vtech or unequipped with variable exhaust lift make header upgrades counterproductive to performance? It's is a widely excepted fact that headers increase performance of our tc and just about any vehicle. Here is a link to a forum where people actually ARE experts: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1554363

If you want independent tests here they are: https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=82724

Third, reading your posts makes me cringe. Arguing with you is a waste of time, good luck in discouraging people not to get the most effective bolt on they can get for their N/A tc.

I will leave you with one of my favorite quotes:
True wisdom is knowing that you know nothing - Socrates.
Think about that...

Mid_Life_tC-risis

^^Menace he didn't bother to look at that SL thread the first time when I linked it for him - and he asks for "dynos from other than a manufacturer", and still thinks headers only add 5hp .

SePa, I'm not backyard or driveway, I'm strickly an "air-conditioned garage mechanic". You act like you're a mechanic, are you? Hope not after reading this:

Man, you talk all that smack and you can't even put on a header properly? Hundreds, probably in the thousands of tC owners have correctly installed a header and either didn't have your issues or corrected them. Did you at least post up your problems and ask for help? You lost low end torque, didn't happen for me & many others, it's in your head or you probably just had an exhaust leak you didn't think to check for. Or a defective DC Sports header, which you could have sent back (sent mine back once for coating scraped off). Sounded terrible? - either your exhaust leak again and/or you didn't put on a bigger resonator, as many have and posted sound clips to show improved sound. Or did you not research your work first and realize you need a large resonator? Either way, and not to be insulting but sounds like you are a sloppy mechanic at best and incompetent at worst. But that's ok, that's what this forum is for, people will help you if you ask.

You're also wanting in the reading & common sense departments. How do you assume that someone "buys every bolt-ons" without being familiar with their posts? I have posted up numerous threads advising folks that power gains are limited with I/H/E, custom exhaust is better than aftermarket, and that the aftermarket midpipes and s-pipes are a waste of money - Menace has read these comments before - and that serious bang for the buck means turbo not SC.

Then, you bash the header because it's "illegal" and then advise for the turbo? HELLO - turbo means removing the stock pre-cat too, genius (Sorry, just borrowing one of your comments! )

Look not everyone takes this as serious as you, and not everyone needs a turbo on their daily driver either. Some of us do a few mods for the fun of it and leave it at that. Have you got a problem with that?

You said earlier, "Most of, if not all of the aftermarket headers are poorly designed and F up the tc's sensitive ecu and throw off AFRs." Hmmm ..., if you're not throwing a CEL, your gas mileage is the same, with no other symptoms, guess no AFR issues worth discussing are there?

Seriously man, take some advise, please try to make your posts pertinent, worth reading, or at the very least ... funny. :D

SePaTc

rolling on the floor.

okay ricers. have fun thinking your car is fast and powerful now that you bolted on a header. :D :D : D its still slow weak and now it sounds like A$$

Mid_Life_tC-risis

That mean you're going back to the Honda forums? (where you belong)

To the OP, sorry for the digression. If you haven't already, go back to that exhaust shop, ask them to check their welds, and also ask to see another resonator of the same type they installed. If it's not a perforated core type of 2.25" (or 2.5") diameter have them replace your resonator with the proper one.

SePaTc

haha, umm yeah, i guess. :D

but you should stay right here, on the noob novelty ricer scion forums....so you can keep pretending you are cool, and not some 45 year old loser going thru a mid life crisis.....for real.

good advice too moron, you're telling the kid to go back to the SAME SHOP THAT F'D UP THE JOB IN THE FIRST PLACE. GOOD THINKING.

OP-its simple, if you have enough money to burn, then continue running around town trying to find a shop that can get your car back to the way you want it to run (ie. stock)....or just get rid of the header and be done with it. your choice.

Mid_Life_tC-risis

Did you just bash the entire ScionLife forum? Just because someone called you out?

Mid_Life_tC-risis

Yeah, it's called a WARRANTY.

Menace

Mid-life, you can't cure ignorance, just let it go. As can you remember, I used to frequently argue but I've come to the conclusion that our efforts are useless. We are dealing with kids here. I just came back to SL after a 3 month hiatus (this was my first thread back) and it's the same thing, just a new looser know-it-all. To put into Ron White's words: "You can't fix stupid."

And Septatc, if you have no idea how to properly install a header, the additional components that should be installed along with a header, the effects of a header (variable exhaust lift or not mr.civic) and what back pressure is exactly and the role it plays; then you have no business advising anyone here or even on your civic forums, even they don't deserve to be misled. For every expert such as your self that doesn't have enough mental capacity to get their header working, there are 20 who figured it out, love it, and reaping the benefits.

To the OP: Sorry about the spat with vicious vtech over here. Like I said in my first post; you need to make sure you get a quality resonator. I would recommend Magnaflow, Aero, and Vibrant. All are straight through perforated core, some with packing. I have the Aero AR25and Vibrant Ultra Quiet in addition to the one my exhaust came with. My current setup produces a low deep hum with a little rumble at wot. I hate loud exhausts and can honestly say I am more than happy with mine. Hope this helps and good luck.

SePaTc

moron ^^^. lol... i don't own a honda. never owned a a honda. not on civic forums. i've installed more headers than you.....easily. The only additional components (lol, noob) that should be installed with a header is a new gasket. idiot.

waiting for those dynos. :D

SePaTc

I'm two years older than you.....noob ricer idiot. you fail.

bigwillystyle23

theres a website that makes scion tc midpipes and you can have them put on one or 2 resonators and a cat and also choose the diameter of pipe you want. if im gonna replace every exhaust component except for the header, couldnt i just get the pipe with no cat and no resonators?

also..2.25 inch, 2.5, or 3 inch midpipe?

i already have the greddy TI-c axleback

SePaTc

imo, if i were to start over, i would keep the stock header, and replace everything backflow: S pipe, hi flow cat + midpipe and (try to make as straight a run as possible back to the) a nice sounding/looking axleback, NOT the mad tyte jdm syle angled canister tho

Mid_Life_tC-risis

SePaTc is a hypocrite. Here's a quote from his post from 2 days ago:

bigwillystyle23 yes you can get a straight midpipe, removing the stock main cat + resonator will make your exhaust a little louder. If deciding to replace your entire exhaust stay at 2.25" to keep your low end torque.

The original question has been asked & answered. Since the multiple-times-proven-incompetent SePa will now only respond with more juvenile hate-spew, a lock is in order here.

**Mods, please lock this thread up.**

ack154

iTrader: (7)

I think this has probably gone far enough... I don't know how these things always start, but I'm ending it now.

Everyone put your exhaust pipes back in your pants and resume your regular activities.